Russian Devil Hotel - Game Thread (ON)

[Kivam]

 

That's what you're going off of, really Kiv? I responded to your questions, I want some solid evidence on myself, please.

 

Seriously? "Solid evidence" on Day 1? Do you have "solid evidence" on Song?

 

I already articulated my reasons once. The fact that you're demanding a higher standard for votes for you than you apply yourself for your own votes makes me happier with where my vote is; small inconsistencies like that are useful scum indicators.

[WWWwombat]

I've already said a lynch on you would provide good info, Alanna. I saw no need to restate that or the points that Hybrid and Kivam made.

 

Kivam's latest post brings up a good point though. You deride Kivam for not having "solid evidence" (on day one no less) and then vote Song without giving an actual reason. Hypocritical much?

[hotpocket2006]

I believe it's for my "overreaction" because that's the only thing of note I've done this game so far. But she's played enough games with me to know I always act that way, especially if I'm town, and I don't see it as the best and only thing to go on at this point as she sais. I also don't like her sarcasticness and uber defensiveness after a couple of votes. She's scrambling already and it kind of reeks. I'll help add some pressure and this could be a good way to go this first lynch.

 

 

Vote AJ

[Hybrid]

Unvote

 

Vote Alanna

 

I think that's 5? Kivam, Krak, Wombat, Song, and now me.

[alannalynn]

Okay, well, it seems like I've screwed myself into the ground with every word I've spoken so far, so I'm going to try to go further back and respond to any and all accusations, and see where I went wrong, because that's how you learn, right? yeah.. Bah humbug.

 

Starting with Hybrid's post #159:

As for spinning words, if you've played with me, you should know by now that I don't create huge elaborate plans. If I see something some way, I'll state it that way. My "minor spin" of words causing a huge ping for you was just my opinion on what Aemon was saying, take that as you will, I wasn't trying to deceive you with words. As for the "preparing for Aemon to flip Town" that was in response to Kivam saying "I'm really voting because of you guys. So when he turns up dead townie, it's your fault, not mine", and that was me taking responsibility of of my own vote.

 

Hybrid's next post, quoted for shortness:

Sorry for all that.

 

Conclusion (TL;DR):

Aemon came off as slightly scummy (humor was slightly forced, making it seem like he was trying too hard not to appear defensive).

I also saw Song's initial response as overreaction (no bandwagon or votes on Aemon at the time).

I think Lily's doing a bit of deflecting away from Aemon (reluctant to vote him and nudging towards Kivam).

And Alanna's post was fairly scummy, for the reasons Kivam stated.

That gives a decent direction to go in no matter what Aemon flips. If he flips scum, I'd look at Song and Lily, in that order. If he flips innocent, I'd look at Alanna.

 

Because of that, I'm OK with vote: Aemon.

Underlined portion: I responded to Kiv's notes, I don't know what more I can say...

Kivam's Post #181: Reading back, the reason you voted me was because of your analysis of my "scummy post" and because Aemon claimed a power that automatically makes him town, and since HYBRID said Aemon's innocence made me next on the list, I'm the choice vote. Is that correct? Despite my explaining my post, I'm being voted for because Hybrid, who pointed fingers at MANY people said that I was the next in line because of a finder-claim? I hate to sound defensive and snarky... but that's how I feel like I'm coming off. *sigh* I'm just clarifying, c'est tout.

@dralid- that was just me FOSing the people FOSing me. Call it mutual fingering.

 

Am I the only one that caught this?

 

Ok, time to go to the next person on my list.

unvote

vote alanna

Stated before, I'm not next on your list, you're just getting a vote in for the heck of it.

 

And notes taken, My vote on Song is saying "someone else, please!" because her overreaction IS all I have to go on, and I'm aware that I always try to pick fights with her in mafia because of her style. The overreactions always seem scummy to me, so that is why I voted for her, so I'm NOT being hypocritical, dearest Wombat.

 

You're really enjoying this, aren't you Hybrid? You FOS a few people, and let others just run with it, then toss in your vote when you realize they've found a nice target. I'm smiling on the inside, really. Seems you pointed at a few people and waited for everyone else to take the bait on anyone else.

[Kivam]

And notes taken, My vote on Song is saying "someone else, please!" because her overreaction IS all I have to go on, and I'm aware that I always try to pick fights with her in mafia because of her style. The overreactions always seem scummy to me, so that is why I voted for her, so I'm NOT being hypocritical, dearest Wombat.

 

You consider that "solid evidence"? Or is solid evidence only necessary for people to vote for you, but not for you to vote for people?

[DPR]

Current Vote Count:

 

AJ ( 5 ) - Kivam, Krak, Wombat, Song, Hybrid

Aemon ( 1 ) - Verbal

Mynd ( 2 ) - Aemon, Dralid

Lily ( 1 ) - Toy

Song ( 1 ) - AJ

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

[Myndrunner]

Ok....screw you critics, Towers of Midnight makes the hair on the back of my old grandmother stand up! Good to have non-mopey Rand back and Goldeneyes....whhaaat?! I can't believe that Demandred is......What? What's that you say?! This is a Mafia game that has nothing to do with ToM? Well, I was just sharing why I was up to the butt-crack of dawn reading something that I wasn't going to be tested on later..

 

...wait, there isn't a test is there?

 

Oh, and im brewing coffee. I chuckle when people state "I need a re-read" because shouldn't you be reading everyone the first time? Am I the only one who has little notes on everyone? I mean, seriously....we could build a case on any one of us at this point, but some stick out more than others.

 

So lets see.....why again are we lynching Alannalynn? Kiv's reason is shaky at best, I dare say our friend Kiv is slipping in the ways of mafia these days.

 

Krak goes for the next person on his list who conveniently is AlannaLynn, the one who Kiv just voted.

 

Then wwwwwwwwwWHY did wwwwwwwWombat just vvvvvvvvVote without explanation or anything....and wwwwwwhy was AlannnnnnnaLynnnnn the only one who nnnnnoticed this?!

 

We're gonna need to watch Kivam carefully in this game, he's already trying to lead a lynch on Alanna because of what someone ELSE said so that if/when she flips innocent, his hands are 'clean'.....he's gunning to hard for a win like he's gotta make up for some recent losses methinks. Could it be a disappointing Jets season? We have no deadline and yet he's pushed this lynch on AlannaLynn on weaker evidence than simply taking AK for his word. A one shot finder power? DPR are hardly that simple.

 

So, my vote goes to........

 

 

....wait for iiiiiiiiit.....

 

 

 

...... wwwwwwWombat

 

Let's hear more from the ninja voter!

[Kivam]

Wow, Mynd - this is a melange of fail.

 

 

So lets see.....why again are we lynching Alannalynn? Kiv's reason is shaky at best, I dare say our friend Kiv is slipping in the ways of mafia these days.

 

 

1) Because of her "i'm voting for Aemon because he seems the scummiest because he joked . . . but really because I think we need to consolidate votes and it's not my fault if he flips innocent" post;

 

2) Because her reaction to relatively mild pressure (3 votes) was overdramatic (demanding "solid evidence" on Day 1? Really?)

 

3) Because she is setting up standards for voting for her ("Solid Evidence") that she does not apply when she votes for other people (she voted both Aemon and Song without "solid evidence"). And the most likely explanation for that little bit of hypocrisy is scum-desperation: she was flailing around trying to avoid a lynch without thinking about whether her argument was consistent with her own actions.

 

All in all, Alanna's reactions remind me, very much, of Day 1 scum meltdown's I've seen before. The fact that you are defending her is an added bonus, especially considering you found Aemon's "jokey responses" to be enough of a Day 1 scumtell to enthusiastically lead a drive to lynch him. But suddenly the multiple reasons listed above to vote Alanna are "shaky" and I'm the one trying to lead the town? Interesting.

 

We have no deadline and yet he's pushed this lynch on AlannaLynn on weaker evidence than simply taking AK for his word. A one shot finder power? DPR are hardly that simple.

 

Someone hasn't really been paying attention to the nuances of prior posts. What was that you said about mafia members not reading too carefully because they assume they already know everything?

[Kivam]

Note, some prior posts from Mynd defending Alanna:

 

2) Alannalynn's post isn't as scummy as Kiv makes it out to be; however, anyone who simply says "that's scummy to me" but doesn't expand on why sounds much like one who is trying to hide upon a vote.

 

3) What is wrong with leading a lynch on someone when we suspect them to be scum? Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing?

 

 

AlannaLynn's post is the model of what a town player should be doing, justifying her reasons for voting not trying to discredit accusers. Aemon Kristen is scrambling like a caught mafia, but not making clear accusations.

 

What I mean by not reading the vote count is he didn't notice that there was already a 2 count vote in place before this supposed "bandwagon" started. Aemon wasn't paying attention because he doesn't have to. He already knows who is mafia and who isn't. He doesn't need to read and analyze votes to figure out who is scum.

 

Not sure if Mynd would tie himself to a teammate so obviously - although this would be classic Symp-signaling, which is something to keep in mind (especially since 3 scum + 1 symp would be a classic scum breakdown for a 14 player game). But he's very clearly defended Alanna 3 times now, and that's worth pointing out.

[WWWwombat]

What do you want to hear, Mynd?

[Kivam]

Current Vote Count:

 

AJ ( 5 ) - Kivam, Krak, Wombat, Song, Hybrid

Aemon ( 1 ) - Verbal

Mynd ( 2 ) - Aemon, Dralid

Lily ( 1 ) - Toy

Song ( 1 ) - AJ

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

 

 

Note - that's 10 voters. Mynd just voted for Wombat, so that's 11, leaving 3 non-voters. Keeping track of who they are:

 

Lily, who's been participating, doesn't have a vote outstanding. Neither does Aust, who's been in and out. The other non-voter is Redust (who has basically disappeared this game, and Wes, I hope he's on LOA or you're going to do something about that).

[Kivam]

Appologies everyone. Hope you understand my absence due to the holiday.

 

What I find most intriguing about the Aemon-Myndrunner situation is the reactions to it. Nothing groundbreaking to me, personally. It does seem the votes mounted rather fast, but IIRC that's nothing new.

 

Have nothing more to add at the moment, just really letting you all know I'm still alive and kicking.

 

BTW, this is Redust's last post on the site (at least going by his profile), and it's from 3 days ago. Red, any chance you're going to be more active than "once every 3 days" any time soon?

[alannalynn]

And notes taken, My vote on Song is saying "someone else, please!" because her overreaction IS all I have to go on, and I'm aware that I always try to pick fights with her in mafia because of her style. The overreactions always seem scummy to me, so that is why I voted for her, so I'm NOT being hypocritical, dearest Wombat.

 

You consider that "solid evidence"? Or is solid evidence only necessary for people to vote for you, but not for you to vote for people?

 

Kivam, I feel like you're taking one phrase and spinning it in many different directions. The real point is that THERE IS NO SOLID EVIDENCE, ergo you can't have any on me and I'm unable to have any one someone else. Solid evidence at this point would be Aemon calling me out as mafia, but we don't have that. We have my scummy behavior and yours and Hybrid's spinning of my words, then a couple of bandwagoners who just want a quick vote in for the sake of lynching somebody sometime today.

 

And for your information: meltdown? HA. No meltdowns from me anytime soon, dearest, I have a leveler head than that under pressure, I just happen to dig my own grave whilst talking.

 

I'm pretty thankful that Mynd isn't totally against me; I'm not some uber fantastic mafia player, I can't defend myself properly against someone who is taking every words I say and adding a billion different applications to it.

[Kivam]

Kivam, I feel like you're taking one phrase and spinning it in many different directions. The real point is that THERE IS NO SOLID EVIDENCE, ergo you can't have any on me and I'm unable to have any one someone else. Solid evidence at this point would be Aemon calling me out as mafia, but we don't have that. We have my scummy behavior and yours and Hybrid's spinning of my words, then a couple of bandwagoners who just want a quick vote in for the sake of lynching somebody sometime today.

 

Lets be clear - do you think people should vote for you only if they have "solid evidence" that you are mafia?

 

If so, then why is it that you're ok with voting for others based on (admittedly) less than "solid evidence"

 

If not - if, as you now recognize, it's impossible to have "solid evidence" on anyone at this point in the game - then why did you demand that I provide you with "solid evidence" in the first place?

 

And btw, who is "spinning" your words? Did you or did you not say this:

 

That's what you're going off of, really Kiv? I responded to your questions, I want some solid evidence on myself, please.

 

There's no "spin" here at all, no "multiple meanings". You suggested that the only way to justify my vote for you was to give you "solid evidence" - something you now admit is an impossible demand.

 

Look, maybe you're an innocent; its Day 1, nothing would surprise me. But you're the scummiest thing going, plus your lynch will give us some added info on Mynd and another player or two (assuming you really are scum, there's at least 1 other player I would jump to the top of the list, though I think I'll hold that discussion for after the death scene, since all it would be at the moment is a distraction). That's more than enough to make me happy to lynch you (or any other player in that position) on a Day 1.

[alannalynn]

Heard you clear as crystal, but I wont reveal yet. I still feel you're taking one phrase and making it say way more than it's worth and that's how I'll stand. Call me stubborn, but that "solid evidence" phrase is all you keep saying. Maybe I misspoke, maybe I meant something different than what you think I meant, but that's not the point: you're claiming I'm the best choice for today, but I don't think I am.

[Aust]

Geez there is this rash of taking things so literally today. Kivam you're really beating this "solid evidence" thing into the ground -it does seem like you're trying too hard today. Are you expecting Alana to capitulate and agree that you're right? I don't see that happening, so I'm not really sure why you're continuing to beat at it. You voted for song when it was fairly obvious that she didn't understand what Mynd was doing in his post, and now it looks like you're trying too hard with Alana, and your zeal at her makes me doubt the case you have against her. I don't really buy your reasoning as quickly as some of the others. Wombat and Hybrid both jumped really readily onto this vote, and I think Song was just thrilled to have the attention off of her and on someone else and so she happily joined in. Krak at least had voiced some suspicion about Alana but I'm not too sure why he went after her after saying that Song was at the top of his list.

 

If you're trying to sacrifice Alana so you can get some information on Mynd - fine - but don't try to camouflage it by trapping her into an impossible situation. She's obviously not going to admit that her reasoning was hypocritical, any more than Song was going to admit that she over reacted because she didn't see what was happening.

[LilyElizabeth]

I agree with what you said, Aust, and you said it better than I could. I've been trying to put my thoughts on Kivam into words for a while now. They've been hard to pin down. Thanks.

 

Kivam, I'm not voting because it's my habit not to vote for someone who has no votes yet when someone else has a bunch. And those who have played with me know I'm careful where I vote and don't usually change it once it's placed. I'm not going to vote Alanna. I get a town vibe from her. You, on the other hand, are pushing a bit too hard, and if I do vote, that's where I'll put it.

 

I have other thoughts I'd like to share. I'm just putting this out there to see what you all think. Some people have a one-time power and when they use it will get a ghost power, right? (And some won't.) Wes probably already knows who will get what. So there is the chance of lynching our power roles without them even knowing they would have been a power role. I'm not comfortable with that, and I'm thinking that if we're allowed to, a no lynch may be our best bet for day one.

 

Wes, is no lynch an option?

[Dralid]

Unvote

 

Reevaluating my logic and stuff. Will update later...

[aemonkristen]

While I understand the reluctance to lynch someone for fear of lynching a power role, o fail to see how letting the mafia take the first kill is going to clarify the situation at all. Especially when we have time to pressure people and thereby have something to evaluate after the lynch.

[WWWwombat]

Despite her scumminess, Alanna does have a good point about Krak. I think regardless of how Alanna flips, we will need to look at Krak soon:

 

AlannaLynn's post is the model of what a town player should be doing, justifying her reasons for voting not trying to discredit accusers. Aemon Kristen is scrambling like a caught mafia, but not making clear accusations.

 

What I mean by not reading the vote count is he didn't notice that there was already a 2 count vote in place before this supposed "bandwagon" started. Aemon wasn't paying attention because he doesn't have to. He already knows who is mafia and who isn't. He doesn't need to read and analyze votes to figure out who is scum.

 

 

Yeah...it does make sense.

 

This was in reference to Mynd's post as far as I can tell

 

 

My vote stays.

 

Also, Kiv I know what you mean. Well...technically I don't, but I was supposed to be in NY from the 27-31 and our flight was cancelled due to the absurd amounts of snow. Next year however...and I'll be 21 which means anyone who wanted to catch a drink in Manhattan, well I'd be 200% down for that shite! Also, I might be in NY over the summer, so if I am, I'll let some peeps know because I turn 21 in January.

 

On a game related note, I think Hybrid did a good job with his observations. I would say that Song and Alanna are looking scummiest at this point, but mainly Song. Also, it's a good read of the situation, but he also points out scumminess in about 4-6 different people, all of whom can't be mafia. This fact makes me want to look closer at Hybrid, his general and partially ambiguous accusations (depending on which person he looked at) could be a ploy to look town by casting suspicion on multiple people. If only one person flips mafia out of those, I think Hybrid is our next bet.

 

This is a really weird post. Hybrid made good observations so therefore Alanna is scummy but Hybrid is scummy too? Also, what happened to you agreeing with Mynd that Alanna's "scummiest post of Day 1" was town-like?

 

@dralid- that was just me FOSing the people FOSing me. Call it mutual fingering.

 

Am I the only one that caught this?

 

Ok, time to go to the next person on my list.

 

unvote

vote alanna

 

Votes Alanna instead of Song even though at the time of his last post Song was allegedly scummier. This might make sense if he didn't think he could get a lynch on Song, but I don't think the amounts on Alanna were overwhelming at that point.

 

Krak is playing really weird. In my experience, weird often means scum.

 

Top suspects:

 

Alanna

Krak

Mynd

 

 

Those to watch:

 

Song

Lily

Aust

Aemon

Kivam (hasn't done anything scummy yet but he is always on this list)

[DPR]

I agree with what you said, Aust, and you said it better than I could. I've been trying to put my thoughts on Kivam into words for a while now. They've been hard to pin down. Thanks.

 

Kivam, I'm not voting because it's my habit not to vote for someone who has no votes yet when someone else has a bunch. And those who have played with me know I'm careful where I vote and don't usually change it once it's placed. I'm not going to vote Alanna. I get a town vibe from her. You, on the other hand, are pushing a bit too hard, and if I do vote, that's where I'll put it.

 

I have other thoughts I'd like to share. I'm just putting this out there to see what you all think. Some people have a one-time power and when they use it will get a ghost power, right? (And some won't.) Wes probably already knows who will get what. So there is the chance of lynching our power roles without them even knowing they would have been a power role. I'm not comfortable with that, and I'm thinking that if we're allowed to, a no lynch may be our best bet for day one.

 

Wes, is no lynch an option?

 

A No Lynch vote is definitely an option.

 

 

 

[LilyElizabeth]

Thanks, Wes.

 

So what do you guys think of going with a no lynch and letting at least some people find out if they have a ghost power?

[WWWwombat]

I don't like it and I think you suggesting it is scummy.

[LilyElizabeth]

I'm merely putting it out there to talk about. It's good to share ideas, isn't it? I'm not pushing it, and normally I would be against the idea. In this game set-up it's worth discussing, imo.