What would you change if you were writing WoT?

[Jon Paul]

What would I change? Not too much. I'd not let Rand+Elayne happen. Avi' and Min are the only real relationships Rand has. Elayne is fluff. Instead, I'd have Mat get with Elayne because they really do have a great chemistry together not to mention Mat has spent more time with Elayne than Rand has. And that would put an end to this Prince of Ravens crap.

 

Oh and Egwene wouldn't exist.

[Jblaylock]

I'd give Min long, beautiful hair, and I'd make Rand a vampire... just kidding.

I wouldn't change a damn thing. It's perfect as it is.

 

 

What I'd change about the audio books is: I'd make Michael Cramer quit giving Gawain and Elaine such snobby, wussy, cartoony, fake "british royalty" accents.

[Talmanes]

OMG! I hadn't realized there was a Bela Smilie!!!

One Smilie,to rule them all...

[randsc]

Gateways/traveling. Should never have been introduced.

 

A tremendous amount of the conflict in these books is due to the fact that major characters don't bother communicating with each other (I realize that this is not a new observation :)).

 

This lack of communication is necessary to the plot, since if the major characters would just all get together and share everything they knew, the series would be over by now. And probably wouldn't have been very interesting.

 

But the introduction of traveling has really pushed this lack of communication beyond the level of disbelief that can be willfully suspended. It was always a bit far-fetched that important characters involved in a desperate fight to save the very universe from complete destruction wouldn't bother to check in occassionally. This was so even when checking-in would have required traveling long distances by horseback, or sending messengers to do the same. But now, with the discovery of gateways, it is beyond far-fetched that this degree of non-communication would take place. It is downright unbelievable.

[Jon Paul]

But now, with the discovery of gateways, it is beyond far-fetched that this degree of non-communication would take place. It is downright unbelievable.

 

I think you're being a little unfair. The lack of communication has had nothing to do with a lack in ability to make contact. It's down to the two facts that a) no one trusts anyone and b) a lot of people have been a little too busy to pop in and see one another.

 

There should be communication. But its lack is simply down to, and at least believable to me, character flaws.

[magnutz]

I would cut and mainly in the latest volume. All the names.. I would cut away 15 of the 17 "Alliandre" used on a couple of pages... I would.

 

Then I would change the way Rand and the Gang runs into Shadar Logoth. I would write it so that they don't come across the big city by surpise. They would see it from far off.

I would change the armies and their numbers. You just don't move 200 000 soldiers around like they were made of air. Or even 40 000. The numbers are just plain crazy.

 

Then I would be satisfied. ;)

[David Selig]

What would I change? Not too much. I'd not let Rand+Elayne happen. Avi' and Min are the only real relationships Rand has. Elayne is fluff. Instead, I'd have Mat get with Elayne because they really do have a great chemistry together not to mention Mat has spent more time with Elayne than Rand has. And that would put an end to this Prince of Ravens crap.

 

Oh and Egwene wouldn't exist.

Great ideas.

 

I was inclined to agree with randsc about the Traveling, but then I realised that the characters aren't sharing info even when they are in the same room as a principle. And also that by the time when Traveling was wildly available, the characters had already travelled across most countries at least once and more travelogues would've been repetitive and not so interesting as in the early books when they helped reveal Randland step by step.

 

Still, when Traveling became wildly available, it caused so many problems in terms of believability, that we might've been better off without it. Like why the hell Perrin never tried to send someone to find Rand and ask for an army to help free Faile instead of dealing with the Seanchan. Or how come the Dragon Reborn never send anyone to look for his two ta'veren buddies who've been away from him for so long, even though he knows he needs them in the Last Battle.

[Jon Paul]

Still, when Traveling became wildly available, it caused so many problems in terms of believability, that we might've been better off without it. Like why the hell Perrin never tried to send someone to find Rand and ask for an army to help free Faile instead of dealing with the Seanchan. Or how come the Dragon Reborn never send anyone to look for his two ta'veren buddies who've been away from him for so long, even though he knows he needs them in the Last Battle.

 

Hm, I'll have a crack at this !

 

Why would Perrin not send for Rand's aid in regards to Faile's capture? I can think of a few reasons. First, he knew Rand sent him to deal with the Prophet/Alliandre because Rand himself simply had too much going on to deal with. Secondly Perrin was no doubt afraid to do so. Whilst Rand and the rest of the world was preparing themselves for the Last Battle, were out duelling the Forsaken and the type things on the good guy's to-do list, Perrin was sitting about telling his friend's the Pattern could burn for all he cared. He let himself get consumed to such an extent that he threw away his responsibility to.. well everyone. Deep down, and afraid to admit it to anyone, he was probably ashamed of himself. How could he face the look of disappointment in his friend's eyes? It would brake him and also force him to do something he had been putting off until the forging of his hammer: accepting responsibility. He was not ready to do that and so could not face Rand.

 

Why doesn't Rand send people after Mat and Perrin? Well first, it actually hasn't been that long since he's seen them in-universe has it? Secondly, he's confident that the Pattern will draw them to him when they're really needed. The Pattern will ensure that Perrin and Mat are where they need to be. And it's really a reasonable view on his part if one looks at his state of mind at various times.

[OptimusPrime]

Why doesn't Rand send people after Mat and Perrin? Well first, it actually hasn't been that long since he's seen them in-universe has it? Secondly, he's confident that the Pattern will draw them to him when they're really needed. The Pattern will ensure that Perrin and Mat are where they need to be. And it's really a reasonable view on his part if one looks at his state of mind at various times.

 

I agree with this 100% as one of the things I think Mat is supposed to do is to be prepared to summon the Heroes against Rand if he was to turn dark. And I think its a damn good job Rand and Mat didnt meet up in TGS, what with Rand acting like Moridin after the True Power incedent. I think Mat would definitely have challenged Rand. And if Mat did end up blowing the Horn before Rands epiphany I reckon the Heroes would probably have caused more problems for Rand than even he could handle.

[Jon Paul]

I agree with this 100% as one of the things I think Mat is supposed to do is to be prepared to summon the Heroes against Rand if he was to turn dark. And I think its a damn good job Rand and Mat didnt meet up in TGS, what with Rand acting like Moridin after the True Power incedent. I think Mat would definitely have challenged Rand. And if Mat did end up blowing the Horn before Rands epiphany I reckon the Heroes would probably have caused more problems for Rand than even he could handle.

 

That's actually very interesting. It has often been remarked that three ta'veren from the same village is simply unheard off. One being the Dragon Reborn himself? It's also stated that Rand needs them. Which basically means the Pattern needs them. Could Mat and Perrin's function primarily be a fail-safe for the Pattern?

 

We know that at times the Dragon has turned to the Shadow. Could the thing that has prevented an outright victory for the Shadow be the fail-safe of the Pattern in the form of two ta'veren? I would bet anything that the Dragon has never turned to the Shadow, but rather it has always been the Dragon Reborn who has failed. And I can easily believe that Mat and Perrin (assuming it's always the same souls of Mat and Perrin that are chosen) are the real reason that the Dark One has never won.

[David Selig]

Why would Perrin not send for Rand's aid in regards to Faile's capture? I can think of a few reasons. First, he knew Rand sent him to deal with the Prophet/Alliandre because Rand himself simply had too much going on to deal with. Secondly Perrin was no doubt afraid to do so. Whilst Rand and the rest of the world was preparing themselves for the Last Battle, were out duelling the Forsaken and the type things on the good guy's to-do list, Perrin was sitting about telling his friend's the Pattern could burn for all he cared. He let himself get consumed to such an extent that he threw away his responsibility to.. well everyone. Deep down, and afraid to admit it to anyone, he was probably ashamed of himself. How could he face the look of disappointment in his friend's eyes? It would brake him and also force him to do something he had been putting off until the forging of his hammer: accepting responsibility. He was not ready to do that and so could not face Rand.

reasonable points, but I still disagree. Perrin was willing to do anything to save Faile. The most obvious course for action is to find Rand, who already has the Shaido for his enemies, and ask for help. Rand would've been happy to help since he wanted the Shaido threat gone and Perrin knew that. Instead he made a deal with the Seanchan and didn't even consider the possibility of contacting Rand, which just makes no sense for me.

 

Why doesn't Rand send people after Mat and Perrin? Well first, it actually hasn't been that long since he's seen them in-universe has it? Secondly, he's confident that the Pattern will draw them to him when they're really needed. The Pattern will ensure that Perrin and Mat are where they need to be. And it's really a reasonable view on his part if one looks at his state of mind at various times.

It's been 8-9 months, IIRC, more in Mat's case. An awful lot of time given that the Last battle is about to start really soon. If I were Rand, I'd have certainly tried to get my top general and fellow ta'veren Mat back much earlier to help prepare my armies and plan the military strategy. Relying just on the Pattern is dangerous, he has to do his part too, can't rely on it to his job for him.

 

Rand also knows Perrin has to save him one more time (Min's viewing) yet send him away for months and didn't make any effort to contact him, which makes no sense to me.

[Jon Paul]

reasonable points, but I still disagree. Perrin was willing to do anything to save Faile. The most obvious course for action is to find Rand, who already has the Shaido for his enemies, and ask for help. Rand would've been happy to help since he wanted the Shaido threat gone and Perrin knew that. Instead he made a deal with the Seanchan and didn't even consider the possibility of contacting Rand, which just makes no sense for me.

 

Okay, but also consider this: Perrin couldn't trust Rand to say yes. When he was with Rand, he kept noting how much he had changed from the farm-boy he once knew. Perrin's arguing with Rand over what Rand was going to do with the Aes Sedai for example. Perrin had no reason to think that Rand would help. First, what does Faile matter in the grand scheme of things (back to my earlier point on Perrin being ashamed etcetera). Secondly, he had no reason to think Rand had the troops to commit to the actions at Malden.

 

It's been 8-9 months, IIRC, more in Mat's case. An awful lot of time given that the Last battle is about to start really soon.

 

That seems a little too much to me.

 

If I were Rand, I'd have certainly tried to get my top general and fellow ta'veren Mat back much earlier to help prepare my armies and plan the military strategy.

 

Mat isn't the only competent general at Rand's disposal. He has two Great Captains. And he also trusts Mat completely, as evident by his words to Tuon. Even at the height of his madness he trusted Mat.

 

Relying just on the Pattern is dangerous, he has to do his part too, can't rely on it to his job for him.

 

Rand also knows Perrin has to save him one more time (Min's viewing) yet send him away for months and didn't make any effort to contact him, which makes no sense to me.

 

I agree with most of this. But it is also understandable why Rand views things the way he does. It's believable that he will leave things to the Pattern like when he will need Mat or Perrin.

[OptimusPrime]

I agree with this 100% as one of the things I think Mat is supposed to do is to be prepared to summon the Heroes against Rand if he was to turn dark. And I think its a damn good job Rand and Mat didnt meet up in TGS, what with Rand acting like Moridin after the True Power incedent. I think Mat would definitely have challenged Rand. And if Mat did end up blowing the Horn before Rands epiphany I reckon the Heroes would probably have caused more problems for Rand than even he could handle.

 

That's actually very interesting. It has often been remarked that three ta'veren from the same village is simply unheard off. One being the Dragon Reborn himself? It's also stated that Rand needs them. Which basically means the Pattern needs them. Could Mat and Perrin's function primarily be a fail-safe for the Pattern?

 

We know that at times the Dragon has turned to the Shadow. Could the thing that has prevented an outright victory for the Shadow be the fail-safe of the Pattern in the form of two ta'veren? I would bet anything that the Dragon has never turned to the Shadow, but rather it has always been the Dragon Reborn who has failed. And I can easily believe that Mat and Perrin (assuming it's always the same souls of Mat and Perrin that are chosen) are the real reason that the Dark One has never won.

 

Thats exactly it. I think the Horn of Valeres ultimate purpose is to take down Dark Dragons. The Patterns Plan B, if you will. And indeed I think Mat and Perrin are the failsafe.

 

RJ said in an interview that the Heroes fighting the Dragon would create a rift in the Pattern. I think that rift is, when broken down, a way to remove the Dragons ultimate Ta'veren power when he is Dark. So, say Rand turns Dark, heres how I think it would go down. IF it came to it, which I doubt it will.

 

Mat summons the Heroes, they fight Rand and the rift undoes his Ta'veren only-touchable-if-it-helps-him kind of thing-he becomes a normal man (although still a channeler), and can now be fought directly without the Pattern protecting him. Rand dies, his soul goes to T'A'R and must wait "until next time." The Shadow can still get him though; imagine what would happen if Moridin found dead Rand in T'A'R, expelled him like Moghedien did to Birgitte, and then bonded him using the Compulsion Warder bond the Ashaman use. Moridin would have ultimate control of the Dragon, unless someone stops him of course. Mat and Perrins ultimate role I think is to reclaim Rand if the Shadow have him, and the Horn and Heroes would be the means. Mat does the first part, by breaking Rands Ta'verenism with the Horn and ensuring his death, Perrins role is then to protect dead-T'A'R-Rand from the Shadows last attempt to bind him until the Light can fix the situation. So when Rand is dead in T'A'R, Perrin leads the Last Hunt , leading the spirits of dead wolves to protect Rand so that someone, possibly Moiraine or Nynaeve, could expel him to the waking world again. Then all that needs happen is he be bonded again just as Birgitte was, then he would in essence be resurrected, possibly at the expense of him not being the Champion anymore

[Jon Paul]

Mat summons the Heroes, they fight Rand and the rift undoes his Ta'veren only-touchable-if-it-helps-him kind of thing-he becomes a normal man (although still a channeler), and can now be fought directly without the Pattern protecting him. Rand dies, his soul goes to T'A'R and must wait "until next time." The Shadow can still get him though; imagine what would happen if Moridin found dead Rand in T'A'R, expelled him like Moghedien did to Birgitte, and then bonded him using the Compulsion Warder bond the Ashaman use. Moridin would have ultimate control of the Dragon, unless someone stops him of course. Mat and Perrins ultimate role I think is to reclaim Rand if the Shadow have him, and the Horn and Heroes would be the means. Mat does the first part, by breaking Rands Ta'verenism with the Horn and ensuring his death, Perrins role is then to protect dead-T'A'R-Rand from the Shadows last attempt to bind him until the Light can fix the situation. So when Rand is dead in T'A'R, Perrin leads the Last Hunt , leading the spirits of dead wolves to protect Rand so that someone, possibly Moiraine or Nynaeve, could expel him to the waking world again. Then all that needs happen is he be bonded again just as Birgitte was, then he would in essence be resurrected, possibly at the expense of him not being the Champion anymore

 

Well, I wont ponder too much on the specifics of the fail-safe, but I have a little trouble with Perrin's part in your musings. If Elan Morin did try to rip the Dragon's Soul from T'A'R to take control you have to factor several things in. First of all, the Dragon's Soul would be completely aware of its self, of its failings and its successes. Remember whenever Silverbow returned to T'A'R she was complete. She had all the memories of her life etcetera. It (the Dragon Soul) would also be aware of the rules of T'A'R that Silverbow broke. So, Elan Morin would need to find the Dragon Soul first before he tries anything.

 

Also, I have always rejected the idea that Nyn' or someone else will bring Rand back from the dead by expelling him from T'A'R. I don't think people understand the evil nature of this action. What Moggy did to Silverbow was so evil and cruel. Its inherent nature is chaotic. Good people simply do not do that. And again, the Dragon Soul in T'A'R isn't likely to reveal its self to anyone and no one would be able to find it of their own will. So it pretty much rules it out.

[OptimusPrime]

Mat summons the Heroes, they fight Rand and the rift undoes his Ta'veren only-touchable-if-it-helps-him kind of thing-he becomes a normal man (although still a channeler), and can now be fought directly without the Pattern protecting him. Rand dies, his soul goes to T'A'R and must wait "until next time." The Shadow can still get him though; imagine what would happen if Moridin found dead Rand in T'A'R, expelled him like Moghedien did to Birgitte, and then bonded him using the Compulsion Warder bond the Ashaman use. Moridin would have ultimate control of the Dragon, unless someone stops him of course. Mat and Perrins ultimate role I think is to reclaim Rand if the Shadow have him, and the Horn and Heroes would be the means. Mat does the first part, by breaking Rands Ta'verenism with the Horn and ensuring his death, Perrins role is then to protect dead-T'A'R-Rand from the Shadows last attempt to bind him until the Light can fix the situation. So when Rand is dead in T'A'R, Perrin leads the Last Hunt , leading the spirits of dead wolves to protect Rand so that someone, possibly Moiraine or Nynaeve, could expel him to the waking world again. Then all that needs happen is he be bonded again just as Birgitte was, then he would in essence be resurrected, possibly at the expense of him not being the Champion anymore

 

Well, I wont ponder too much on the specifics of the fail-safe, but I have a little trouble with Perrin's part in your musings. If Elan Morin did try to rip the Dragon's Soul from T'A'R to take control you have to factor several things in. First of all, the Dragon's Soul would be completely aware of its self, of its failings and its successes. Remember whenever Silverbow returned to T'A'R she was complete. She had all the memories of her life etcetera. It (the Dragon Soul) would also be aware of the rules of T'A'R that Silverbow broke. So, Elan Morin would need to find the Dragon Soul first before he tries anything.

 

You're right, he would. But then again Elan Morin currently has two T'A'R experts bound via mindtraps, and hes not too shabby at messing with dreams and even finding Ta'veren. I think he has the necessary tools.

 

Also, I have always rejected the idea that Nyn' or someone else will bring Rand back from the dead by expelling him from T'A'R. I don't think people understand the evil nature of this action. What Moggy did to Silverbow was so evil and cruel. Its inherent nature is chaotic. Good people simply do not do that. And again, the Dragon Soul in T'A'R isn't likely to reveal its self to anyone and no one would be able to find it of their own will. So it pretty much rules it out.

 

Sometimes evil is as necessary as good though. Do you think Nynaeve would rather let the entire world and Pattern die, just to avoid perfoming an act that some consider evil? Which would be the lesser evil, bringing back the man who was born to sacrifice himself so that he COULD sacrifice himself in the right manner, or letting the Shadow have him under their complete control and thus enabling the end of everything, just to avoid commiting this "evil" act? When you look at the means of both they are both evil acts. One saves mankind, by undoing the death of someone you grew up with. The other lets them stay dead for a brief time until the real evildoers do the exact same thing, intentionally for evil. Which is worse?

 

Not that Im saying any of this is definite or that I think it WILL happen like this, I just see it as a possibility. If it did happen, I think Rands death being undone by Nynaeve would not be how Rand survives TG, I think that scenario would happen before Rand dies the death of sacrifice, and all that effort between Mat and Perrin would be to allow him to die the sacrificial death that saves everything. Kind of like, the Dragon goes Dark, only way to get him Light and willing to fight is to literally press the reset button on Rand by sending him to T'A'R and back. It could even work if Mat blew the Horn again once Rand is in T'A'R and someone bonds him that way, once the Horn summons him from the grave. Or something else entirely of course.

[Crael123]

Okay I would have cut Mesema all together. I mean what did he achieve??? nothing

 

Perrin and Berelain baby. That should have happened.

 

I agree with everybody saying that the forsaken should have stayed dead. Osan'gar? Aran'gar? Neither of them did anything at all. well that we have seen Aran'gar there are some possibilities.. but Osan'gar? Blew up the sun palace? wow great. suck ass. Only Moridin i agree with.

 

Ba'lal, Aginor, Bethamel were all total jokes. They should have fought and done stuff. Ba'lal. Take Callandor the most powerful sa'angrael in existance and i will take you on! oh wait I just got randomly offed. never mind! Come on. Rahavin at least went out with badassery. Sammael was interesting to read about so i did not mind him.

 

Demandred. ooooooooh Demandred. What happened my friend? What happened to "prime antagonist?" come on. Grow a pair.

 

Graendal... will have to wait.

 

I agree Moirane Lanfear happened to soon.

 

Luca should never have happened.

 

Kin seafolk and Elayne and rand should have never happened

 

Thom should have been Elayne's dad.

[Crael123]

Okay I would have cut Mesema all together. I mean what did he achieve??? nothing

 

Perrin and Berelain baby. That should have happened.

 

I agree with everybody saying that the forsaken should have stayed dead. Osan'gar? Aran'gar? Neither of them did anything at all. well that we have seen Aran'gar there are some possibilities.. but Osan'gar? Blew up the sun palace? wow great. suck ass. Only Moridin i agree with.

 

Ba'lal, Aginor, Bethamel were all total jokes. They should have fought and done stuff. Ba'lal. Take Callandor the most powerful sa'angrael in existance and i will take you on! oh wait I just got randomly offed. never mind! Come on. Rahavin at least went out with badassery. Sammael was interesting to read about so i did not mind him.

 

Demandred. ooooooooh Demandred. What happened my friend? What happened to "prime antagonist?" come on. Grow a pair.

 

Graendal... will have to wait.

 

I agree Moirane Lanfear happened to soon.

 

Luca should never have happened.

 

Kin seafolk and Elayne and rand should have never happened

 

Thom should have been Elayne's dad.

[Jon Paul]

You're right, he would. But then again Elan Morin currently has two T'A'R experts bound via mindtraps, and hes not too shabby at messing with dreams and even finding Ta'veren. I think he has the necessary tools.

 

Well, when the Dragon Soul returns to the World of Dreams, he ceases to be an active focal point for the Pattern. Basically he stops being ta'veren until he's reborn. So Elan cannot find him that way. And it doesn't matter how good Moggy and Lanfear are, they wont be able to see the Dragon Soul unless it reveals its self and I see no reason why it would do so.

 

[. . .

 

This all assumes that in the end it is still the Dragon's Soul that has to defeat the Dark One (I include a "draw" as a victory for the Light). Even if it has went over to the Shadow. I don't think that's how it would work. I think if the Dragon's Soul goes over to the Shadow, the fail-safe kicks in and the Dragon is killed and is sent back to T'A'R and the fail-safe does whatever is necessary without the aid of the Dragon's Soul.

 

The only other reason for Nyn' or someone else to rip the Dragon Soul from T'A'R is for personal motivation such as friendship.. and doing such an evil deed, which it would objectively be, could not be justified.

 

Now something else to consider. I have stated that the Dragon Soul would be self-aware.. concious.. I don't think so right now. What if the stay in T'A'R is a dreamless sleep, still safe away from contact due to the rules of T'A'R? Just imagine.. the Dragon's Soul has been fighting for.. ever. Since Creation. Could a single human soul possibly live under the weight of all those memories? Could it live with its self for the countless times it has turned and will again in the future turn to the Shadow?

 

If that was the case I don't think bringing the soul back from T'A'R would help. It would be driven mad in my opinion. This also might lend credence to the Dragon Soul being wiped clean every turning, only remembering it's Dragon and Dragon Reborn incarnations for that specific turn of the Wheel. In which case Rand would have a personal motivation for revealing himself without the counter-weight of millions of lives telling him not to.

[OptimusPrime]

You're right, he would. But then again Elan Morin currently has two T'A'R experts bound via mindtraps, and hes not too shabby at messing with dreams and even finding Ta'veren. I think he has the necessary tools.

 

Well, when the Dragon Soul returns to the World of Dreams, he ceases to be an active focal point for the Pattern. Basically he stops being ta'veren until he's reborn. So Elan cannot find him that way. And it doesn't matter how good Moggy and Lanfear are, they wont be able to see the Dragon Soul unless it reveals its self and I see no reason why it would do so.

 

I will say fair enough on that one, although there is a certain thing I cant mention that might or might not give him a reason to reveal himself. But I just cant say it here.

 

[. . .

 

This all assumes that in the end it is still the Dragon's Soul that has to defeat the Dark One (I include a "draw" as a victory for the Light). Even if it has went over to the Shadow. I don't think that's how it would work. I think if the Dragon's Soul goes over to the Shadow, the fail-safe kicks in and the Dragon is killed and is sent back to T'A'R and the fail-safe does whatever is necessary without the aid of the Dragon's Soul.

 

But what if Rand was turned before he fought the Dark One? Whatever happens, Rand has to do the sacrificial death which involves his confrontation with the Dark One. And if the Dark had him, he would not do it. If the only way to get him back was to kill him to remove the Shadows hold, and then bring him back either via the Horn or Moghediens weave on Birgitte, that would not be considered an act of evil, because by killing him and bringing him back, you are giving the only person that CAN save mankind another chance, rather than simply letting the bad guys have him because you dont want a bit of dirt on your own hands. Nynaeve or whoever would NOT be bringing Rand back for personal reasons. They would be bringing Rand back so that he could fight the Dark One despite having recently been taken by him. Look at the bigger picture of what Im saying. If the Dragon was Dark, and the only way to bring him back to the Light and get rid of the Shadows hold on him was to kill him and bring him back with the Horn or whatever, anyone and everyone would acknowledge that as the lesser evil than letting the entire world burn. Doesnt matter if it was Nynaeve or Moghedien or Cenn Buie that done it. If it was either that, or let the entire world die, people would want that done. Because the people involved would probably realize that Rands death didnt fulfill the prophecies yet, and the Shadow would still be at large.

 

Now something else to consider. I have stated that the Dragon Soul would be self-aware.. concious.. I don't think so right now. What if the stay in T'A'R is a dreamless sleep, still safe away from contact due to the rules of T'A'R? Just imagine.. the Dragon's Soul has been fighting for.. ever. Since Creation. Could a single human soul possibly live under the weight of all those memories? Could it live with its self for the countless times it has turned and will again in the future turn to the Shadow?

 

If that was the case I don't think bringing the soul back from T'A'R would help.

 

See, thing is Rand is already dealing with that, plus Birgitte started losing her memories once she exitted T'A'R, so chances are if the unlikely scenario I said did come about, and the good guys killed Rand to free him from the Shadow and then brought him back, he would probably start losing the past life memories anyway just like Birgitte did.

[SecretlyNinja]

I would pair Aviendha and Elayne off instead of pairing them both with Rand. Those two have more Les Yay than anyone I've ever seen before, and neither of them seem to care for Rand nearly as much as they care for each other.

 

Agreed about Demandred and Logain. If freakin' Morgase can get her own POV chapters, then Logain and Demi can get a little actual screentime, too, seeing as they actually serve a purpose in the plot. Actually, I'd just cut Morgase's POVs altogether. If we need to see what's going on with the Whitecloaks, we can just get some Galad or something. Her little romance with Tallonvor is kind of creepy, as well.

 

Also, the Berelain/Faile/Perrin thing would not exist. If I have to read about "the spiky scent of Faile's jealousy" one more time...

 

That being said, as irritating as some aspects of the series are, it flaws are what make it more endearing and unique. I guess.

 

 

Well, those are my thoughts, anyway...

[Mr Ares]

Why would Perrin not send for Rand's aid in regards to Faile's capture? I can think of a few reasons. First, he knew Rand sent him to deal with the Prophet/Alliandre because Rand himself simply had too much going on to deal with. Secondly Perrin was no doubt afraid to do so. Whilst Rand and the rest of the world was preparing themselves for the Last Battle, were out duelling the Forsaken and the type things on the good guy's to-do list, Perrin was sitting about telling his friend's the Pattern could burn for all he cared. He let himself get consumed to such an extent that he threw away his responsibility to.. well everyone. Deep down, and afraid to admit it to anyone, he was probably ashamed of himself. How could he face the look of disappointment in his friend's eyes? It would brake him and also force him to do something he had been putting off until the forging of his hammer: accepting responsibility. He was not ready to do that and so could not face Rand.

reasonable points, but I still disagree. Perrin was willing to do anything to save Faile. The most obvious course for action is to find Rand, who already has the Shaido for his enemies, and ask for help. Rand would've been happy to help since he wanted the Shaido threat gone and Perrin knew that. Instead he made a deal with the Seanchan and didn't even consider the possibility of contacting Rand, which just makes no sense for me.

I agree with this point - even if Perrin dismissed this option for whatever reason, he should have considered it. He might think, for example, that as they parted on bad terms (their fake argument ended up being more real than intended) he wasn't going to go back to Rand sooner than he had to, and would look for another solution first.

[T00thbrush]

What would I change? Not too much. I'd not let Rand+Elayne happen. Avi' and Min are the only real relationships Rand has. Elayne is fluff. Instead, I'd have Mat get with Elayne because they really do have a great chemistry together not to mention Mat has spent more time with Elayne than Rand has. And that would put an end to this Prince of Ravens crap.

 

Wow. Never thought of a Mat/Elayne pairing. On one hand, I wouldn't wish Elayne on anyone, especially our dear Matrim bloody Cauthon, but on the other hand it would kind of make sense. A lot more sense than Rand/Elayne anyway. Maybe Elayne could FINALLY start growing up from that relationship as well.

 

That's actually very interesting. It has often been remarked that three ta'veren from the same village is simply unheard off. One being the Dragon Reborn himself? It's also stated that Rand needs them. Which basically means the Pattern needs them. Could Mat and Perrin's function primarily be a fail-safe for the Pattern?

 

We know that at times the Dragon has turned to the Shadow. Could the thing that has prevented an outright victory for the Shadow be the fail-safe of the Pattern in the form of two ta'veren? I would bet anything that the Dragon has never turned to the Shadow, but rather it has always been the Dragon Reborn who has failed. And I can easily believe that Mat and Perrin (assuming it's always the same souls of Mat and Perrin that are chosen) are the real reason that the Dark One has never won.

 

Very interesting idea.

 

Perrin and Berelain baby. That should have happened.

 

Thom should have been Elayne's dad.

 

Perrin/Berelain - you must be kidding! Those two have nothing in common.

Thom as Elayne (and Gawyn?)'s dad would have been a nice touch, but nothing unexpected. I don't think it would actually add anything to the story really. Also would make El's crush on Thom even creepier than it was.

 

I would pair Aviendha and Elayne off instead of pairing them both with Rand. Those two have more Les Yay than anyone I've ever seen before, and neither of them seem to care for Rand nearly as much as they care for each other.

 

Agreed about Demandred and Logain. If freakin' Morgase can get her own POV chapters, then Logain and Demi can get a little actual screentime, too, seeing as they actually serve a purpose in the plot. Actually, I'd just cut Morgase's POVs altogether. If we need to see what's going on with the Whitecloaks, we can just get some Galad or something. Her little romance with Tallonvor is kind of creepy, as well.

 

Avi/Elayne would be just as bad as Rand/Elayne - Avi/El's friendship is just as superficial, groundless and contrived as Rand/El's romance. Also, the real Les Yay is Moiraine and Siuan

 

Agreed on the Morgase/Tallanvor romance... strange... I've enjoyed Morgase's POV but they definitely don't strike me as as important as Demandred's or Logain's would have been...

[Jon Paul]

I will say fair enough on that one, although there is a certain thing I cant mention that might or might not give him a reason to reveal himself. But I just cant say it here.

 

PM me, I'd like to hear this one.

 

But what if Rand was turned before he fought the Dark One? Whatever happens, Rand has to do the sacrificial death which involves his confrontation with the Dark One. And if the Dark had him, he would not do it.

 

Rand's death does not necessarily have to involve a confrontation with the Dark One. He could go ovver to the Shadow, tthe Mat-Perrin fail safe kicks in, and Shadow-Rand still dies at Shayol Ghul. Then the Pattern does whatever it does to get the draw.

 

See, thing is Rand is already dealing with that, plus Birgitte started losing her memories once she exitted T'A'R, so chances are if the unlikely scenario I said did come about, and the good guys killed Rand to free him from the Shadow and then brought him back, he would probably start losing the past life memories anyway just like Birgitte did.

 

Rand is living with one past memory right now, not all his past lives. And I don't think Briggitte can honestly compare to the Dragon Soul.

[Haran]

I think id up the IQ of most of the characters. Protagonists and forsaken alike. Also, I would remove the dream ter'angreals or simply make Elayne unable to make new ones. Currently it is a form of long distance communication that is not used to its full capacity at all. Also the whole men vs female plotline is ridiculous. I can understand female channelers vs male channeleres, but personally i dislike that this extends so far as to the women circle vs the mens council in a backwater village. These men and women are adults, married adults, I personally can’t see how for example Eggys mother has more trust in a foreign Aes Sedai than her husband. Only Faile and Perrin show some remote sense of cross gender cooperation. Even Aes Sedai who have bonded warders and have theirs warders feeling in the back of their head have this syndrome, it makes no sense.

This might kill the series though.

I’d also make the shadow more evil. Take illian for example, it has been under the control of the forsaken for a long time yet when Rand steps in and kills him the city itself is fine. Where are the shackles, the indoctrination and compulsion, the gas chambers and the evil? Sammael gave all the food to his armies? Wooah, he must be one mean forsaken.

I’d also give Myrrdraal a bigger role. They come off pretty good in the first book as the “man in the cloak”, but after a while they are just not scary anymore. These guys are excellent bad-guys who have in the later books been overlooked and/or dumbed down. I would remove the gholam all together and instead give all Myrdraal its abilities. The gholams role can be picked up by Shaidar Haran or something.

[T00thbrush]

I’d also make the shadow more evil. Take illian for example, it has been under the control of the forsaken for a long time yet when Rand steps in and kills him the city itself is fine. Where are the shackles, the indoctrination and compulsion, the gas chambers and the evil? Sammael gave all the food to his armies? Wooah, he must be one mean forsaken.

 

He has to keep his armies well-fed if he expects to make any use out of them. Unfed army = army dies. It's bad for the Light, but the damage is very limited. Well-fed army = army can be sent to fight evil wars on false pretenses, causing much more death and devastation. Also, the Forsaken at that stage were still operating mostly undercover, building up their bases and power, so doing a lot of evil would probably not have been the best way to remain discreet. But you do have a point - the Forsaken are not as efficient as they could be, everyone seems to agree on that.

 

I’d also give Myrrdraal a bigger role. They come off pretty good in the first book as the “man in the cloak”, but after a while they are just not scary anymore. These guys are excellent bad-guys who have in the later books been overlooked and/or dumbed down. I would remove the gholam all together and instead give all Myrdraal its abilities. The gholams role can be picked up by Shaidar Haran or something.

 

If the Myrdraal had the gholam's abilities, the Shadow might have already won! The gholam is a very powerful creature. The Myrdraal are numerous. You can't have both at the same time, or the Light would lose - the heroes would probably never have escaped the Two Rivers in the first place (or their escape would be much, much harder to believe).

 

I understand what you mean by the Myrdraal being dumbed down as the series progresses but it's really more about the main characters powering up and the world getting its ass in gear for TG. It makes sense that enemies that seem awesome and deadly to 3 country bumpkins blindly running away for their life at the beginning of the series turn into dangerous but not-so-impressive enemies as the heroes are bumpkins no longer but instead the Dragon Reborn, Lord Goldeneyes and the Prince of the bloody Ravens