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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

What is the Big Unnoticed Thing? (spoilers)

JenniferL

By JenniferL
in Wheel of Time Books

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Galium Apprentice

Galium

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If you're talking about the thing that BS said that nobody was paying any attention to although it was extremely important, I think he was talking about how the ashandarei was given to Mat as a means to escape from the Eelfinn's world.

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Terez Mentor

Terez

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Yes, that was definitely it. Not that I ever had any doubt, but Peter pretty much confirmed it to me after I got the book. We've been wondering why the hell they gave it to him for years, so it was really obvious for all of the old-timers.

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analyticalkeys Explorer

analyticalkeys

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Brandon never said we hadn't discussed it or wondered about. Just that he hadn't seen any discussion on it. Since he is not omnipresent, I think we can forgive the lapse.

 

Well, that's certainly true. I just didn't think it was obscure as Vin's earring in Mistborn. That was something that there was pretty much no way for you to even realize its true purpose... it was just an ordinary object from the beginning. Mat's spear was given to him in such a weird way, well... you know.

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OptimusPrime Mentor

OptimusPrime

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Is that it, seriously? Brandon said THAT is bigger than the identity of Asmodeans killer?

 

No offense, but I want some of what he was smoking.

 

I certainly think it is; personally, I never really cared that much about finding out who killed Asmodean.

 

Neither have I but I dont think the ashanderai helping mat escape is in any way worthy of the hype Brandon deliberately put in place for it.

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bubbers Newbie

bubbers

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yeah it wasn't a big deal, never made sense, and no way to know why it was there. Why did they even take him out if he never asked to go out, just to recieve an object that has the power to take him out? If they gave him an object that can take him out, but that in itself is the way out, then why take him out. And if it didn't fullfill the contract, and taking him out did, then why give it to him at all? No point, just trying to be clever. Though if mat goes back in with an army to deal some punishment... well now its a big deal. Plus after mat goes, anyone else could use it to do that. Wonder Oliver will use it?

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OptimusPrime Mentor

OptimusPrime

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I seriously cant get over it. Moridin or whoever it was didnt need the ashanderai to get out. Asmodeans killer was definitely the wrong thing to compare it to. Clearly Brandon hasnt looked at the Asmo thread. Im sorry, but if that really is the BUT then Brandon has lost a lot of points in my book.

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yoniy0 Mentor

yoniy0

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Its use was really isolated, and in that way it was less impressive than the reveal of Asmo's killer (I mean in Moridin's and SH's chats with Graendal, not that folly in the glossary). But Asmo was already dead and knowing who did it changes nothing, whereas allowing Mat to escape 'finnland was very important indeed. I'm actually quite surprised at the way it was revealed. It seemed that Mat really took his time with that revelation (I mean, once he started thinking in the right direction, it became obvious which way this is going to go. Not that I had any inkling what the Ashandarei was all about before that). For me, it lessened the worth of Noal's sacrifice.

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TheTuninator Newbie

TheTuninator

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Its use was really isolated, and in that way it was less impressive than the reveal of Asmo's killer (I mean in Moridin's and SH's chats with Graendal, not that folly in the glossary). But Asmo was already dead and knowing who did it changes nothing, whereas allowing Mat to escape 'finnland was very important indeed. I'm actually quite surprised at the way it was revealed. It seemed that Mat really took his time with that revelation (I mean, once he started thinking in the right direction, it became obvious which way this is going to go. Not that I had any inkling what the Ashandarei was all about before that). For me, it For me, it lessened the worth of Noal's sacrifice.

 

I think his lack of clear thinking is excusable since he just had his eye ripped out; that is truly horrifying and I'm impressed he was in any kind of shape at all after that.

 

As far as earlier, he might have realized it if contemplating things on any random day, yeah, but Mat tried to avoid thinking about that place as much as possible so it's quite understandable.

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mossman87 Enthusiast

mossman87

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I seriously cant get over it. Moridin or whoever it was didnt need the ashanderai to get out. Asmodeans killer was definitely the wrong thing to compare it to. Clearly Brandon hasnt looked at the Asmo thread. Im sorry, but if that really is the BUT then Brandon has lost a lot of points in my book.

 

Hahahahah

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Terez Mentor

Terez

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IMO it was bigger than Asmodean. But I never cared about Asmodean either. I thought it was cool, but in some ways it still doesn't make sense to me. Mat said he wanted to be away from them, but he didn't use the ashandarei to get away from them in Rhuidean. So it's like they granted that particular request twice.

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yoniy0 Mentor

yoniy0

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IMO it was bigger than Asmodean. But I never cared about Asmodean either. I thought it was cool, but in some ways it still doesn't make sense to me. Mat said he wanted to be away from them, but he didn't use the ashandarei to get away from them in Rhuidean. So it's like they granted that particular request twice.

He said he wanted 'a way out' if memory serves. To the best of my knowledge, they can't draw blood if you come in through the doorway. It stands to reason that they can't take you prisoner as well (else it would've been known that you might not return, and - more likely than not - the same would hold for the Aelfinn). So, he already had a way out assured to him by the terms of the 'governing bargain'. Thus, they had to give him something else, and they went with the Ashandarei. It sits well with me, though I don't know why we should've assumed the Ashandarei came from them and wasn't just something they found this side of the doorway to hang him with.

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dwn Collaborator

dwn

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IMO it was bigger than Asmodean. But I never cared about Asmodean either. I thought it was cool, but in some ways it still doesn't make sense to me. Mat said he wanted to be away from them, but he didn't use the ashandarei to get away from them in Rhuidean. So it's like they granted that particular request twice.

 

I agree that the request was phrased oddly.

 

"Burn your souls! You are as bad as Aes Sedai. Well, I want a way to be free of Aes Sedai and the Power, and I want to be away from you and back to Rhuidean, if you will not answer me. Open up a door, and let me--"

 

-- TSR, Rhuidean, p. 282

 

One thing jumps out at me. Given that the redstone doorway was an obvious way out, they didn't actually need to give him anything to get him back to Rhuidean. Yet, to "open up a door" as was part of his request, they did need to do something other than just throw him out. It's a bit of a stretch, but I can even see granting "I want to be away from you" by just tossing him outside might violate the Eelfinn's sense of honor or propriety or something. After all, the treaty would likely have required that they let anyone entering via the redstone doorway leave. The *Finns are sneaky and tricksy, but they do have a twisted sense of fair play.

 

Oh, and I'll state again that we were all idiots not to link the ashandarei directly to Mat's third wish. Bah! Perhaps a bit less time spent obsessing over Asmodean's killer...

 

-- dwn

 

(Edited to add the proper book+chapter+page to the quote.)

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analyticalkeys Explorer

analyticalkeys

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I don't know why you guys are focusing on the Ashendorai (sp?). I thought it was pretty clear that the tBUT was NOT something about Mat's trip to Finnland and what he got there. I thought that was specifically on the list of things to be eliminated from consideration.

 

It was revealed that someone said it wasn't when it actually was.

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water_seeker Collaborator

water_seeker

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Brandon never said we hadn't discussed it or wondered about. Just that he hadn't seen any discussion on it. Since he is not omnipresent, I think we can forgive the lapse.

 

Well, that's certainly true. I just didn't think it was obscure as Vin's earring in Mistborn. That was something that there was pretty much no way for you to even realize its true purpose... it was just an ordinary object from the beginning. Mat's spear was given to him in such a weird way, well... you know.

 

Vin's earring was VERY predictable for me. I always did wonder about mats weapon...but never really thought it was the key out.

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