RJ and Philosophers

[Ozzie_aiel]

Ishamael/Moridin is arguably the most powerful and successful of the Chosen, definately the one with most of the DOs approval. Before this, he was one of the AoL greatest philosophers

 

Alviarin, head of the Black Ajah and very dedicated Darkfriend, came from the White, who are also philosophers.

 

The only good philosopher in the book was ripped apart by a Gholam

 

Is this a coincidence, did RJ have a thing against philosophers, or is it a warning that philosophy can lead you into places that you really shouldn't go.

[dovien]

Goodness no. There are plenty of elements and discussions of philosophy in the books that don't have negative connotations. You seem to be overlooking Ogier, other Aes Sedai, other scholars and the innate philosophy apparent in the structure of the world of the Wheel.

[Jon Paul]

Rand himself has spent most of the series philosophising. He's been seriously tackling issues as fundamental as the very nature of the Wheel, the Dark One and his own role as the Dragon Reborn.

[Jblaylock]

Perhaps it's a hidden statemtent about a philosophy degree being useless.

[Callern]

not to mention ji'e'toh

[drewk]

I really don't think RJ could be railing against philosophy as a branch of knowledge. After all, who hasn't thought about the world and their own place in it? This is, after all, what sets us apart from animals. We question the state of the world instead of just accepting it. Society as we know it today could not exist without philosophers, America in particular.

 

Unless RJ is suggesting we revert to the state of nature? Somehow I don't think so.

[Jblaylock]

I really don't think RJ could be railing against philosophy as a branch of knowledge. After all, who hasn't thought about the world and their own place in it? This is, after all, what sets us apart from animals. We question the state of the world instead of just accepting it. Society as we know it today could not exist without philosophers, America in particular.

 

Unless RJ is suggesting we revert to the state of nature? Somehow I don't think so.

 

 

Yes, but being a thinker, who may or may not consider him/her self as a philosopher by nature, is not the same as being a philosopher by trade or degree. The smart, powerful, and successful charecters understand the importance of philosophy, and maybe even develop their own philosophies, but they realize that being "a philosopher" is not their calling in life, and there are far more important things for them to devote the majority of their time, energy, and focus to.

[Durinax]

I think RJ was stating that if you search hard enough into the philosophy of existance that you may find something dark and the further you search into what drives the universe and how it is driven that you may in fact move away from tradition human thoughts/feelings such as compassion, trust, love. And that by moving away from those feelings by focussing on the big picture too hard that you could lose your humanity, like Rand until the end of TGS.

 

Personally i think that Harid Fels amnesia was his blessing. his ability to forget the dire nature of what he is researching allowed him to delve as deep as he wanted to without the ramification of brooding and such.

[dovien]

Personally i think that Harid Fels amnesia was his blessing. his ability to forget the dire nature of what he is researching allowed him to delve as deep as he wanted to without the ramification of brooding and such.

That's a really interesting insight. Thanks.

[Shard]

I think in Moridin's case it wasn't the philosophising but the fact that he's had this battle with the Light and been Dark's Champion over and over again, led to him going nuts about it.

[Durinax]

I think in Moridin's case it wasn't the philosophising but the fact that he's had this battle with the Light and been Dark's Champion over and over again, led to him going nuts about it.

I dont think so, I think he theorized that he has been the shadows champion just as many europeon royal families theorized they where appointed by god or some such.

 

I think he went nuts becasue he delved into the source and purpose of creation. That he found a lack of purpose and the DO pushing forward the bleakness of the wheel that you will make the same mistakes time after time for all time pushed him over the edge

[graendalzooescapee]

I totally disagree. RJ seems to have been very fond of philosophers--how else do you explain the omnipresence of White Ajah members despite the fact that the Ajah is so small? I think having a philosopher villain is an acknowledgement of the power of philosophy rather than a condemnation of it.