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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

ALMOST??? What you mean, Moiraine?


dscott8

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And why a flaw would mean lack of a buffer? I understood that Callandor's flaw magnified the taint induced and provoked a wildness to the mind. Both time Rand used it, he became crazy berserk. Trying to heal a dead girl, and killing his army as well as the enemy. Nowhere is it stated that the flaw is a lack of buffer.

 

And for the Choedan Kal, I understood it was too dangerous to use them as they were, so they created access key with additional buffers. If someone could have a look into the Strike at Shayol Ghul, because I'm not sure of my latter assumption. The first I'm pretty sure. Callandor has a buffer.

 

And I think that Moiraine refered to Rand not managing to make everybody travel, too.

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And why a flaw would mean lack of a buffer?

 

Because characters in the books and RJ both said so? Also: I just posted a quote from him about it. It's up there somewhere.

 

I understood that Callandor's flaw magnified the taint induced and provoked a wildness to the mind.

 

Yeah, that too.

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I thuoght the access keys where required to prevent the user to burn out due to the vast potential of the sa angreal. Althoguh the mobility thing is a very valid point

 

Although in a recent reread of tGH when rand goes up to it he sees a shimmering light in the orb so I am unsure

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I read your quote (I have a tendency to read a whole thread before answering :D). It said nothing about it...

 

The question was about a lack of a buffer. RJ saif Callandor's flaw is simply a manufacturing flaw. It doesn't confirm it is a lack of buffer... this is how I read that quote. I read the bit about the wildness to the mind somewhere, but can't remember whom from, or where... sorry to say things I can't prove/back up.

 

Edit : how could you possibly fail/forget to put something so important as a buffer against self burning? Yeah, manufacturing flaw, ok. But they were Aes Sedai, and had the proper knowledge to make a sa'angreal. I suppose they also had the knowledge to put a buffer. But then, we can't be sre of what a manufacturing flaw with the OP looks like..

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Egwene wasn't Linked when she used Vora's sa'angreal, just when she first took it. After that, the novices were needed to guard her back, and she let them form their own circles.

The Choedan Kal don't require the use of the access keys for safety. It's for mobility. Nowhere in the books does it imply anything else. And Cadsuane's remark that Callandor was flawed (backed by RJ and Brandon) implies that not all sa'angreal contain that particular flaw. Else, it wouldn't have been a manufacturing accident, just a regular feature of sa'angreal.

 

 

Let me look at it but I am pretty sure it is mentioned in the the book that without access key you will die immediately if you try to use CK. And that's why even forsaken didn't bother touching CK even though they knew precisely where it was.

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Whiskyjack, are you trolling? ;) The quote speak of ter'angreal, sa'angreal and angreal mass production. It doesn't mean they were creating exactly the same ter/sa/'angrel. Just that they were creating lots of them. There aren't two ter'angreal fulfilling the same purpose. Neither do two angreal have the same shape, or sa'angreal for that matter. Mass production doesn't mean Fordism :)

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RJ's answer sounds lame.

 

That's nice. Myself, I don't mind it so much. I mean don't get me wrong, I've heard better, but as answers go? Perfectly serviceable.

 

Calandor was NOT mass produced. There is only one Calandor.

 

He said objects of the Power in general were mass produced. And, um, why wouldn't they have been?

 

Sa'angreal's virtually don't exist in Randland.

 

Neither do all the other things mass produced in the Age Of Legends. There was a bunch of war and stuff and apparently this thing called a "Breaking" or something. Basically, stuff got lost.

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I stilm think book evidence could be false trails...

 

Why would it be safer in a circle led by a woman, then? A circle of two, led by a man, should be a sufficient buffer against that flaw normally. No need for the circle to be upper than two. So it means the fact that the woman lead the circle is important. Which means the danger is laying in the man using Callandor. Which means it's the taint. IMHO.

 

And I admit I sometimes look too much into words. But maybe RJ meant what you mean.

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Why would it be safer in a circle led by a woman, then? A circle of two, led by a man, should be a sufficient buffer against that flaw normally. No need for the circle to be upper than two. So it means the fact that the woman lead the circle is important. Which means the danger is laying in the man using Callandor. Which means it's the taint. IMHO.

 

 

Ah..so Rand can swing Calandor alone now? I don't think so. When Calandor was created, people probably didn't even know taint existed and prophecy specially mentions a circle of 3 (meaning Rand and two women). I am guessing even post taint, that will apply.

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Yes, except we don't know when precisely Calandor was created.

 

What does that matter? Seriously, that's completely irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the rarity of OP objects in general.

 

But, yeah, we do have a time frame: during the war. It's right in the quote I gave. But here, have some more:

 

JWB: Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?

RJ: Yes

 

JWB: Was it used in the War of Power?

RJ: Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.

 

Oh, yeah, BTW: during the war means there was no taint on saidin. Still flawed. Wonder what that was about...

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Yes, except we don't know when precisely Calandor was created.

 

What does that matter? Seriously, that's completely irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the rarity of OP objects in general.

 

But, yeah, we do have a time frame: during the war. It's right in the quote I gave. But here, have some more:

 

JWB: Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?

RJ: Yes

 

JWB: Was it used in the War of Power?

RJ: Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.

 

 

Why it matters? Calandor is an extremely powerful Sa'angreal and I really doubt that even in AOL, Sa'angreal like that were dime a dozen.

 

As for the flaw, we are yet to see Rand BBQ himself so I am really confused about this buffer thing. Why isn't he dead if that were the case?

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I only found that, which isn't saying a lot. But points toward additional buffers... no real evidence either way

 

two huge sa'angreal, one attuned to saidin and one to saidar, both so powerful that using them required special ter'angreal, like miniature versions of the great sa'angreal, constructed especially for the purpose of accessing the sa'angreal. This project had its detractors, too, for the sa'angreal were planned to be so powerful that either one might well provide enough of the One Power to destroy the world, while both certainly would[…]The side of the Light still had the sa'angreal, but no safe way to access them without the ter'angreal it was certain that even the strongest Aes Sedai would be burned out instantly by the huge flow of the One Power

 

Edit : Didymos, your quote makes you win the argument about the flaw. But, it doesn't rule out my thoughts about the wildness. Which isn't necessarilly linked to the taint. Which explains why Rand has to use it with a woman. As the sa'angreal is atuned to men, the flaw only affext men, I'd say...

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I am curious..Why isn't Rand burned or dead? Only problem we have seen with Calandor is that it amplifies his madness via taint but something that can draw so much power and has no buffer should kill him instantly, right?

 

Ummmm, no.

 

You seem to misunderstand how sa'angreal work. They don't operate at a fixed Power level. Just like any amplifier, they have a range of amplification. Unless Rand attempted to draw every bit of Power that his innate capability allowed, there would be no danger of Callandor burning him out. He has never attempted to draw that much Power while wielding Callandor.

 

As to what the AoL AS believed about the Choeden Kal, all you need to know is the key phrase "it was certain", Which translates as, "they were talking through their hats." It was also certain that severing could not be healed. It was further certain that weaves could not be successfully picked apart. It was also certain that madness could not be healed. I'm sure that there were other "certainties" that the series has shown to be false, as well, I just can't think of them at the moment.

 

Fact is that the CK were VERY powerful. Fact also is that the AoL AS were very risk averse. The CK scared them, so it became " 'certain' that even the strongest Aes Sedai would be burned out instantly by the huge flow of the One Power" without the access keys. Rand nearly lost himself in the actual male CK when he was at the site of its excavation, but his inadvertent tapping into it certainly didn't burn him out.

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I am curious..Why isn't Rand burned or dead? Only problem we have seen with Calandor is that it amplifies his madness via taint but something that can draw so much power and has no buffer should kill him instantly, right?

 

Ummmm, no.

 

You seem to misunderstand how sa'angreal work. They don't operate at a fixed Power level. Just like any amplifier, they have a range of amplification. Unless Rand attempted to draw every bit of Power that his innate capability allowed, there would be no danger of Callandor burning him out. He has never attempted to draw that much Power while wielding Callandor.

 

As to what the AoL AS believed about the Choeden Kal, all you need to know is the key phrase "it was certain", Which translates as, "they were talking through their hats." It was also certain that severing could not be healed. It was further certain that weaves could not be successfully picked apart. It was also certain that madness could not be healed. I'm sure that there were other "certainties" that the series has shown to be false, as well, I just can't think of them at the moment.

 

Fact is that the CK were VERY powerful. Fact also is that the AoL AS were very risk averse. The CK scared them, so it became " 'certain' that even the strongest Aes Sedai would be burned out instantly by the huge flow of the One Power" without the access keys. Rand nearly lost himself in the actual male CK when he was at the site of its excavation, but his inadvertent tapping into it certainly didn't burn him out.

 

 

1)I always thought that chanelers were like a bucket and they can safely chanel bucket full of one power and to cross that threshold, they needed an angreal or sa'angreal. Are you saying that Rand basically never drew more power than his body could withstand so technically he never needed Calandor at all? Because I always thought he was chaneling more power than his body would allow normally and hence the "dying" problem. Afterall buffer is used to ensure that even if your bucket size is bigger, at one time time you cannot draw more power than your original bucket size.

 

2)I am speechless! Those fool from age of legend;)

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I am curious..Why isn't Rand burned or dead? Only problem we have seen with Calandor is that it amplifies his madness via taint but something that can draw so much power and has no buffer should kill him instantly, right?

Wrong. Channelers do not themselves have buffers - they can draw too much and burn themselves out. They do not kill themselves instantly, do they? No, not unless they draw too much. Angreal and sa'angreal have buffers preventing one from drawing too much, but Callandor is flawed and lacks that buffer, meaning that one could conceivably draw too much and burn oneself out while using it. By the way, none of this is conjecture, just plain fact. Arguing against it is pointless. "It [Callandor] is flawed, lacking the buffer that makes over sa'angreal safe to use. And it apparently magnifies the taint, inducing wildness of the mind." PoD 27.
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I am curious..Why isn't Rand burned or dead? Only problem we have seen with Calandor is that it amplifies his madness via taint but something that can draw so much power and has no buffer should kill him instantly, right?

Wrong. Channelers do not themselves have buffers - they can draw too much and burn themselves out. They do not kill themselves instantly, do they? No, not unless they draw too much. Angreal and sa'angreal have buffers preventing one from drawing too much, but Callandor is flawed and lacks that buffer, meaning that one could conceivably draw too much and burn oneself out while using it. By the way, none of this is conjecture, just plain fact. Arguing against it is pointless. "It [Callandor] is flawed, lacking the buffer that makes over sa'angreal safe to use. And it apparently magnifies the taint, inducing wildness of the mind." PoD 27.

 

 

Dude, did you even read what I wrote? Sorry to sound harsh but you are just babbling.

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