When is someone important/loved going to die?

[W_A]

I really hope that immediately after Elayne gives birth (literally, like still holding the babies), Mellar jumps out and slits her throat, and then Birgitte yells at her about her stupid plot armor ideas while she's dying.

[Vam]

I doubt i'd shed a tear if elayne died in childbirth.... LTT's 3rd age blondie needs to die somehow.

[Sloth]

*Wonders why everyone hates Elayne and loves Mat*

[Vam]

Whats there to wonder? she's a stuck up ditzy blonde who expects the world of everyone else but rarely if ever admits her own faults or apologises for her poor behaviour, treats many people poorly and arrogantly, makes very poor judgements, etc..

[Sloth]

Whats there to wonder? she's a stuck up ditzy blonde who expects the world of everyone else but rarely if ever admits her own faults or apologises for her poor behaviour, treats many people poorly and arrogantly, makes very poor judgements, etc..

 

I've been bored with some of Elayne's story arcs, sure, but I've never ever hated on her. Mat, on the other hand, I can't stand. He needs to die. Now.

 

Hmm.. maybe it's just that Elayne is completely overshadowed by Egwene since I tend to rate Nynaeve, Elayne, and Egwene relative to each other. Anyways, I enjoy Egwene's arcs.. mostly can't stand her.. don't mind Elayne.. story arcs are meh.. can't stand Mat or his storylines. I basically skipped all of his arcs. ALL of them.

[Suttree]

Whats there to wonder? she's a stuck up ditzy blonde who expects the world of everyone else but rarely if ever admits her own faults or apologises for her poor behaviour, treats many people poorly and arrogantly, makes very poor judgements, etc..

 

I always thought that given her upbringing she is portrayed fairly realistic. If anything you would think a Daughter-Heir of Andor would be way worse than Elayne in terms of being stuck up. She adjusted pretty well considering, during her travels away from Caemlyn. While she has made some very poor decisions, some aren't nearly as bad(BA raid, dungeon interrogation) as most make out.

 

The one thing in her favor is she is very clear with her internal thoughts on the pressure she feels to be a good Queen and the duty she owes to the people of Andor. Given how we have seen some nobility act around Randland this surely counts for something.

[Vam]

i didnt say that she was a completely evil person or her .. manners... arent realistic given her "station".

That still doesnt mean she's particularly nice or likable as person. She's nice - but usually only to certain women or when she wants something.

Its actually quite disgusting.

 

she may not be pure evil, but she's certainly puerile. :D

[Suttree]

i didnt say that she was a completely evil person or her .. manners... arent realistic given her "station".

That still doesnt mean she's particularly nice or likable as person. She's nice - but usually only to certain women or when she wants something.

Its actually quite disgusting.

 

Eh sure...it's just a Princess/Queen being stuck up isn't exactly a newsflash. Doesn't bother me all that much especially when you have things like Emo Perrin whining about how he's not a leader & Faaaailllleee for books on end. Not only that but his whole I'll deal with DO to help her and the light be damned attitude. Now that is disgusting.

[Roxinos]

I hope both Perrin and Mat meet their ends in aMoL..

 

Re-reading Eye of the World reminded me just how much I hate Mat.

 

To each their own, of course, but the Mat in tEotW and tGH is not the same Mat as in the rest of the series. Mat in tEotW is, for the vast majority of the book, under the influence of the dagger. That is, he is being driven insane through paranoia and hatred. In tGH, he only has a few weeks left to live and if he doesn't get the dagger back, he will die.

 

You don't truly get to see Mat until he wakes up in the Tower post-Healing in tDR. For instance, my SO is currently going through her first read-through, and she couldn't stand Mat in the first book. And he was just annoying in the second. She understood why, of course, but that didn't change that she didn't care about him.

 

Enter the third book, and Mat is her favorite character.

 

Out of curiosity: what do you dislike about Mat?

[Sloth]

I hope both Perrin and Mat meet their ends in aMoL..

 

Re-reading Eye of the World reminded me just how much I hate Mat.

 

To each their own, of course, but the Mat in tEotW and tGH is not the same Mat as in the rest of the series. Mat in tEotW is, for the vast majority of the book, under the influence of the dagger. That is, he is being driven insane through paranoia and hatred. In tGH, he only has a few weeks left to live and if he doesn't get the dagger back, he will die.

 

You don't truly get to see Mat until he wakes up in the Tower post-Healing in tDR. For instance, my SO is currently going through her first read-through, and she couldn't stand Mat in the first book. And he was just annoying in the second. She understood why, of course, but that didn't change that she didn't care about him.

 

Enter the third book, and Mat is her favorite character.

 

Out of curiosity: what do you dislike about Mat?

 

It's not the dagger influenced Mat that ticks me off.. in fact, dagger influenced Mat is much more preferable than regular Mat. For the vast majority of the first and second book, he is just dumber than a sack of potatoes. Seriously. The whole dagger thing, the three Ta'veren almost being killed by Mordeth, and Mordeth merging with Fain can all be traced back to Mat's dumbass actions.

 

Of course, this doesn't follow him into the later books which is why I said the re-reading has reminded me of why I hated him from the get go. I still hate him though.. because first of all, I don't like how most fans seem to rave about him (similar to how I don't really hate Justin Bieber.. it just annoys me that he actually has a fan base). Second of all, I don't see what's so awesome about him. His attitude in general is a turn off. He's a womanizer who thinks that putting on "his most winning smile" can melt the hearts of any woman. He's just lame. Of course, there's also a bias since I generally dislike most of the male characters aside from Rand who I have no problem with, but don't exactly "love".

[SylvanFox]

I hope both Perrin and Mat meet their ends in aMoL..

 

Re-reading Eye of the World reminded me just how much I hate Mat.

 

To each their own, of course, but the Mat in tEotW and tGH is not the same Mat as in the rest of the series. Mat in tEotW is, for the vast majority of the book, under the influence of the dagger. That is, he is being driven insane through paranoia and hatred. In tGH, he only has a few weeks left to live and if he doesn't get the dagger back, he will die.

 

You don't truly get to see Mat until he wakes up in the Tower post-Healing in tDR. For instance, my SO is currently going through her first read-through, and she couldn't stand Mat in the first book. And he was just annoying in the second. She understood why, of course, but that didn't change that she didn't care about him.

 

Enter the third book, and Mat is her favorite character.

 

Out of curiosity: what do you dislike about Mat?

 

It's not the dagger influenced Mat that ticks me off.. in fact, dagger influenced Mat is much more preferable than regular Mat. For the vast majority of the first and second book, he is just dumber than a sack of potatoes. Seriously. The whole dagger thing, the three Ta'veren almost being killed by Mordeth, and Mordeth merging with Fain can all be traced back to Mat's dumbass actions.

 

Of course, this doesn't follow him into the later books which is why I said the re-reading has reminded me of why I hated him from the get go. I still hate him though.. because first of all, I don't like how most fans seem to rave about him (similar to how I don't really hate Justin Bieber.. it just annoys me that he actually has a fan base). Second of all, I don't see what's so awesome about him. His attitude in general is a turn off. He's a womanizer who thinks that putting on "his most winning smile" can melt the hearts of any woman. He's just lame. Of course, there's also a bias since I generally dislike most of the male characters aside from Rand who I have no problem with, but don't exactly "love".

 

You hate the males? That's unusual. I usually see rants about how awful the female characters are.

 

Why do you hate the males? Because they are kind of wimpy?

[Winespring Patron]

It's not the dagger influenced Mat that ticks me off.. in fact, dagger influenced Mat is much more preferable than regular Mat. For the vast majority of the first and second book, he is just dumber than a sack of potatoes. Seriously. The whole dagger thing, the three Ta'veren almost being killed by Mordeth, and Mordeth merging with Fain can all be traced back to Mat's dumbass actions.

 

Of course, this doesn't follow him into the later books which is why I said the re-reading has reminded me of why I hated him from the get go. I still hate him though.. because first of all, I don't like how most fans seem to rave about him (similar to how I don't really hate Justin Bieber.. it just annoys me that he actually has a fan base). Second of all, I don't see what's so awesome about him. His attitude in general is a turn off. He's a womanizer who thinks that putting on "his most winning smile" can melt the hearts of any woman. He's just lame. Of course, there's also a bias since I generally dislike most of the male characters aside from Rand who I have no problem with, but don't exactly "love".

At first I thought you might possibly be trolling, but I now believe you're sincere in your opinion...

 

First, I agree, until tFoH Mat is a womanizer (mostly a wanna-be womanizer though) but then he assumed command of the Band, which forced him into being increasingly responsible and thinking of his friends/followers first and his pleasure/amusement second. But why do you suppose he might have been tempted to "sample" the female companionship outside of the Two Rivers in the first place? Don't you think his reputation as the biggest scoundrel/slacker in Emond's Field (possibly the Two Rivers) might have dissuaded the "nice" local girls from socializing or dancing with Mat on the Feast Days. Remember Mat's observations of Rand "is there any woman who doesn't stare at Rand all moon-eyed?" and Perrin "the girls always seemed attracted to his slow and gentle ways" [both quotes paraphrased]. Nowadays, Mat is just satisfied to look and comment internally. I think he really will be faithful to Fortuona despite all the propositions flung right in his face. In one of his thoughts, he expressed that making a woman smile; whether sincere or because she thought Mat the biggest fool in creation was a pleasure and reward in itself. If women like Nynaeve and Setalle Anan are willing to cut him slack and defend him against perceived threats then he is worthy of being one of the three ta'veren.

 

Mat is impulsive; it's part of his character, trusting to luck to see him through. This leads him into making rash decisions like jumping thru not one but two portal doorways, yet because of these "dumbass" stunts he now has knowledge and skills that will make the difference when TG comes. Rand and Perrin are not immune from making dumb mistakes but so far it hasn't doomed the Pattern yet. In Shadar Logoth it was greed that motivated Mat to seek out the "treasure" but since the Taint and paranoia have been removed Mat has confined his rashness to risks undertaken to help his friends or persons he feels beholden to. Mat likes a challenge (breaking the rules), it's a trait ingrained into his bones. It doesn't matter whether it involves deflating Whitecloak arrogance, besting lordlings with his quarterstaff, or sneaking into an impregnable fortress that had broken a hundred besieging armies. If someone tells Matrim Cauthon “he can't do that” then it's a sure "bet" that Mat will find a way to accomplish the "impossible" either thru his acquired skills or ta'veren luck.

[Roxinos]

 

It's not the dagger influenced Mat that ticks me off.. in fact, dagger influenced Mat is much more preferable than regular Mat. For the vast majority of the first and second book, he is just dumber than a sack of potatoes. Seriously. The whole dagger thing, the three Ta'veren almost being killed by Mordeth, and Mordeth merging with Fain can all be traced back to Mat's dumbass actions.

 

Fair enough. That's quite true. If Mat had not been raised in a society that completely distrusted and borderline hated Aes Sedai, he might have believed Moiraine when she said that Shadar Logoth was dangerous. No. No, it's wrong to blame society. Blame his mother. Yes, that's it. She didn't beat his mischievous streak out of him when she had the chance. So he leapt at the opportunity to be naughty. That's it. It's his mother's fault.

 

I can see disliking his actions in the first book. I really can. They are genuinely stupid. But you really shouldn't blame everything that follows on him. And you really shouldn't look at his actions in a vacuum. There are reasons for his behavior.

 

Also, Mordeth merging with Fain was mostly the Great Lord of the Dark's fault. You know, if he hadn't fundamentally altered Fain to be a hound for Rand, Mordeth probably would not have been able to merge with him and he wouldn't be so powerful.

 

Of course, this doesn't follow him into the later books which is why I said the re-reading has reminded me of why I hated him from the get go. I still hate him though.. because first of all, I don't like how most fans seem to rave about him (similar to how I don't really hate Justin Bieber.. it just annoys me that he actually has a fan base). Second of all, I don't see what's so awesome about him. His attitude in general is a turn off. He's a womanizer who thinks that putting on "his most winning smile" can melt the hearts of any woman. He's just lame. Of course, there's also a bias since I generally dislike most of the male characters aside from Rand who I have no problem with, but don't exactly "love".

 

I really think you're being a bit silly calling him a womanizer. Mat never goes after any woman once they've made it clear that they are not interested. He never pushes himself on any women. And, quite frankly, he is attractive and women do respond to his smile.

 

However, he doesn't give "his most winning smile" to just women. Pretty much in any situation that he's in where he needs to get out of trouble, he tries to put on his most winning smile. He just thinks it works better on women. And you know why the rest of us find that funny? Because we can see that his "most winning smile" just looks like a mischievous grin. But he can't. Just like he constantly says, "I'm no bloody hero!" and then runs into a burning building to save people.

 

I must say again, to each their own.

[Eht Slat Meit]

I'm guessing the first primary character to go down will be Lan, followed shortly thereafter by Nynaeve in an MOA battle that rips the Blight to shreds. Bashere and the Borderland rulers go next, putting Perrin and Faile in charge; the Broken Crown becomes the Broken Wolf, and the death of Perrin to Slayer's poison after finally killing the man will cement the doom of the Borderlands.

 

Soon after, the new Heroes are called forth when Mat blows the horn again. Because really, that would be frickin' cool, y'know?

[Sloth]

It's not the dagger influenced Mat that ticks me off.. in fact, dagger influenced Mat is much more preferable than regular Mat. For the vast majority of the first and second book, he is just dumber than a sack of potatoes. Seriously. The whole dagger thing, the three Ta'veren almost being killed by Mordeth, and Mordeth merging with Fain can all be traced back to Mat's dumbass actions.

 

Of course, this doesn't follow him into the later books which is why I said the re-reading has reminded me of why I hated him from the get go. I still hate him though.. because first of all, I don't like how most fans seem to rave about him (similar to how I don't really hate Justin Bieber.. it just annoys me that he actually has a fan base). Second of all, I don't see what's so awesome about him. His attitude in general is a turn off. He's a womanizer who thinks that putting on "his most winning smile" can melt the hearts of any woman. He's just lame. Of course, there's also a bias since I generally dislike most of the male characters aside from Rand who I have no problem with, but don't exactly "love".

At first I thought you might possibly be trolling, but I now believe you're sincere in your opinion...

 

First, I agree, until tFoH Mat is a womanizer (mostly a wanna-be womanizer though) but then he assumed command of the Band, which forced him into being increasingly responsible and thinking of his friends/followers first and his pleasure/amusement second. But why do you suppose he might have been tempted to "sample" the female companionship outside of the Two Rivers in the first place? Don't you think his reputation as the biggest scoundrel/slacker in Emond's Field (possibly the Two Rivers) might have dissuaded the "nice" local girls from socializing or dancing with Mat on the Feast Days. Remember Mat's observations of Rand "is there any woman who doesn't stare at Rand all moon-eyed?" and Perrin "the girls always seemed attracted to his slow and gentle ways" [both quotes paraphrased]. Nowadays, Mat is just satisfied to look and comment internally. I think he really will be faithful to Fortuona despite all the propositions flung right in his face. In one of his thoughts, he expressed that making a woman smile; whether sincere or because she thought Mat the biggest fool in creation was a pleasure and reward in itself. If women like Nynaeve and Setalle Anan are willing to cut him slack and defend him against perceived threats then he is worthy of being one of the three ta'veren.

 

Mat is impulsive; it's part of his character, trusting to luck to see him through. This leads him into making rash decisions like jumping thru not one but two portal doorways, yet because of these "dumbass" stunts he now has knowledge and skills that will make the difference when TG comes. Rand and Perrin are not immune from making dumb mistakes but so far it hasn't doomed the Pattern yet. In Shadar Logoth it was greed that motivated Mat to seek out the "treasure" but since the Taint and paranoia have been removed Mat has confined his rashness to risks undertaken to help his friends or persons he feels beholden to. Mat likes a challenge (breaking the rules), it's a trait ingrained into his bones. It doesn't matter whether it involves deflating Whitecloak arrogance, besting lordlings with his quarterstaff, or sneaking into an impregnable fortress that had broken a hundred besieging armies. If someone tells Matrim Cauthon “he can't do that” then it's a sure "bet" that Mat will find a way to accomplish the "impossible" either thru his acquired skills or ta'veren luck.

 

Hmm.. think you've said what I couldn't put together myself: he's a "wanna-be womanizer".. and that is what annoys me. His adventures and story arc thus far has been very bland with the exclusion of Moiraine's rescue. Did we really need a whole book (I think it was the 9th one?) dedicated to his travels with the Band and all that mess with Tuon? I don't think so.. That I felt was stretched too thin just as Faile's rescue mission and Perrin's story arcs in general are unnecessarily long.

 

Furthermore, I want to make it very clear that in my opinion, he's an unlikable character. There's all there is to it. It's not really one reason why I dislike him. There are a plethora that's just too vast to expand on since it includes the little things as well as the big.. such as all the damn lip licking.. or all the damn "grinning".

 

 

It's not the dagger influenced Mat that ticks me off.. in fact, dagger influenced Mat is much more preferable than regular Mat. For the vast majority of the first and second book, he is just dumber than a sack of potatoes. Seriously. The whole dagger thing, the three Ta'veren almost being killed by Mordeth, and Mordeth merging with Fain can all be traced back to Mat's dumbass actions.

 

Fair enough. That's quite true. If Mat had not been raised in a society that completely distrusted and borderline hated Aes Sedai, he might have believed Moiraine when she said that Shadar Logoth was dangerous. No. No, it's wrong to blame society. Blame his mother. Yes, that's it. She didn't beat his mischievous streak out of him when she had the chance. So he leapt at the opportunity to be naughty. That's it. It's his mother's fault.

 

I can see disliking his actions in the first book. I really can. They are genuinely stupid. But you really shouldn't blame everything that follows on him. And you really shouldn't look at his actions in a vacuum. There are reasons for his behavior.

 

Also, Mordeth merging with Fain was mostly the Great Lord of the Dark's fault. You know, if he hadn't fundamentally altered Fain to be a hound for Rand, Mordeth probably would not have been able to merge with him and he wouldn't be so powerful.

 

Of course, this doesn't follow him into the later books which is why I said the re-reading has reminded me of why I hated him from the get go. I still hate him though.. because first of all, I don't like how most fans seem to rave about him (similar to how I don't really hate Justin Bieber.. it just annoys me that he actually has a fan base). Second of all, I don't see what's so awesome about him. His attitude in general is a turn off. He's a womanizer who thinks that putting on "his most winning smile" can melt the hearts of any woman. He's just lame. Of course, there's also a bias since I generally dislike most of the male characters aside from Rand who I have no problem with, but don't exactly "love".

 

I really think you're being a bit silly calling him a womanizer. Mat never goes after any woman once they've made it clear that they are not interested. He never pushes himself on any women. And, quite frankly, he is attractive and women do respond to his smile.

 

However, he doesn't give "his most winning smile" to just women. Pretty much in any situation that he's in where he needs to get out of trouble, he tries to put on his most winning smile. He just thinks it works better on women. And you know why the rest of us find that funny? Because we can see that his "most winning smile" just looks like a mischievous grin. But he can't. Just like he constantly says, "I'm no bloody hero!" and then runs into a burning building to save people.

 

I must say again, to each their own.

 

When I say that Mordeth + Fain is his fault, I'm referring to Fain's whole obsession with the dagger which can be traced back to Mat for removing it from SL in the first place.

[Roxinos]

such as all the damn lip licking

 

I take exception to this 'cause everyone in Randland does this when they're nervous. It's not unique to Mat.

 

When I say that Mordeth + Fain is his fault, I'm referring to Fain's whole obsession with the dagger which can be traced back to Mat for removing it from SL in the first place.

 

I got what you were trying to say. And I was saying that you're placing the blame in a vacuum. You're ignoring the depth of the world and the characters. You're ignoring the reasons Mat would do something so stupid as take the dagger from Shadar Logoth in the first place in favor of a black-and-white, Mat is to blame perspective.

 

It's like blaming the Germans for the Nazis. Sure, you may technically be right, but you're also ignoring all of the historical and cultural background which led to the rise of the national socialist movement in Germany. While blaming the obvious party is easy, it seldom accomplishes anything.

 

/Godwin'd

[Guest PiotrekS]

If Nynaeve or Mat dies, I'm throwing the book out of the window. Mat probably won't though ,because of the RJ's outrigger comment.

 

Also:

It's like blaming the Germans for the Nazis

I don't think it is a good example. Just saying.

 

Although Mat was acting stupid, he was unaware of the consequences of his actions. He was at the time an irresponisble prankster. The analogy would be better if the Germans were unaware of real nazi agenda, just as Mat was unaware of real danger posed by Mordeth. He thought it was just an old creepy city with possible treasure hidden inside.

[Roxinos]

Although Mat was acting stupid, he was unaware of the consequences of his actions. He was at the time an irresponisble prankster. The analogy would be better if the Germans were unaware of real nazi agenda, just as Mat was unaware of real danger posed by Mordeth. He thought it was just an old creepy city with possible treasure hidden inside.

 

While there is certainly some debate on the issue, the debate is merely on how much the German citizenry were aware of. However, generally, the German citizenry were unaware of Hitler's plan (the Final Solution). The debate discusses whether they were aware of persecution and murder of Jewish people. But even knowing that Jews were being persecuted doesn't suggest that they knew the Nazi agenda was to commit genocide.

 

So yeah, the analogy stands.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Although Mat was acting stupid, he was unaware of the consequences of his actions. He was at the time an irresponisble prankster. The analogy would be better if the Germans were unaware of real nazi agenda, just as Mat was unaware of real danger posed by Mordeth. He thought it was just an old creepy city with possible treasure hidden inside.

 

While there is certainly some debate on the issue, the debate is merely on how much the German citizenry were aware of. However, generally, the German citizenry were unaware of Hitler's plan (the Final Solution). The debate discusses whether they were aware of persecution and murder of Jewish people. But even knowing that Jews were being persecuted doesn't suggest that they knew the Nazi agenda was to commit genocide.

 

So yeah, the analogy stands.

 

It's offtopic so I can't engage in any meaningful discussion here. I understand your point and find no pleasure in discussing these issues, so I'll let it go.

[Sloth]

I take exception to this 'cause everyone in Randland does this when they're nervous. It's not unique to Mat.

 

Fair enough. Lip licking in general annoys me. It annoys me twice as much as when Mat does it.. no idea why.

 

I got what you were trying to say. And I was saying that you're placing the blame in a vacuum. You're ignoring the depth of the world and the characters. You're ignoring the reasons Mat would do something so stupid as take the dagger from Shadar Logoth in the first place in favor of a black-and-white, Mat is to blame perspective.

 

I believe that Mat is responsible for his actions while you believe he's immune to any blame because of his upbringing... hmmm...

 

If Nynaeve or Mat dies, I'm throwing the book out of the window. Mat probably won't though ,because of the RJ's outrigger comment.

 

+1.. minus Mat dying.

 

Nynaeve is my favorite character fighting for the light and if she dies, I'm bound to make a bunch of self destructive decisions starting with the murder of a certain author for putting RJ's ideas to words.

 

As sad as I am to admit this, her situation very closely resembles Eldrene's.. assuming Lan WILL die. I hope she has better self control and doesn't go all kamikaze at the LB.

[huntmatt]

Sorry for any mistakes, no book, bad memory, bad speeler.

 

Here's my thinking. Almost everyone dies, except:

 

Mat/Tuon: proposed outrigger solves that one. Plus they would have the political/military power to calm down Randland, then go to Seachen (similar to Marc Antony and Cleo, but without the whole suicide/death part.)

 

Nyv: Restores Miklair, Amryllian Seat, Foster Elaynes kids, helps rule when Mat and Tuon leave.

 

Perrin: Has claim multiple "seats", Helps Nyv with rule and fostering kids.

 

Avi: Rules/Reintegrates Aiel, 4 kids

 

Logain: Rules BT

 

Rand/Min: Not sure how or where, but they're out there.

[Guest PiotrekS]

If Nynaeve or Mat dies, I'm throwing the book out of the window. Mat probably won't though ,because of the RJ's outrigger comment.

 

+1.. minus Mat dying.

 

Nynaeve is my favorite character fighting for the light and if she dies, I'm bound to make a bunch of self destructive decisions starting with the murder of a certain author for putting RJ's ideas to words.

 

As sad as I am to admit this, her situation very closely resembles Eldrene's.. assuming Lan WILL die. I hope she has better self control and doesn't go all kamikaze at the LB.

 

Yeah, Nynaeve's prospects do not look very good. I still have a strong hope she won't die though. It would be simple cruelty from RJ/BS to make Nynaeve one of the most emotionally deep, emphatic and relatable characters just next to Rand and then kill her. Damn the tension and the drama, I want her to live happily ever after.

[Grizz]

I know many people are saying they are upset because "important" people haven't died, but what about the majority of you out there? Sure, many might say that someone important should die, but in reality the majority roots for the good guys. I think people probably enjoy books/movies more if the good prevail. Not just overall, but even during the duration of the story. Don't get me wrong! I agree important people should kick the bucket! But when it comes to good vs. evil, even if it is just one person against another, people would prefer the good guy to win. However anything turns out, I say eye for an eye. The good need to die just like the bad.

[Sloth]

If Nynaeve or Mat dies, I'm throwing the book out of the window. Mat probably won't though ,because of the RJ's outrigger comment.

 

+1.. minus Mat dying.

 

Nynaeve is my favorite character fighting for the light and if she dies, I'm bound to make a bunch of self destructive decisions starting with the murder of a certain author for putting RJ's ideas to words.

 

As sad as I am to admit this, her situation very closely resembles Eldrene's.. assuming Lan WILL die. I hope she has better self control and doesn't go all kamikaze at the LB.

 

Yeah, Nynaeve's prospects do not look very good. I still have a strong hope she won't die though. It would be simple cruelty from RJ/BS to make Nynaeve one of the most emotionally deep, emphatic and relatable characters just next to Rand and then kill her. Damn the tension and the drama, I want her to live happily ever after.

 

She NEEDS to live...

 

But yeah.. she's not in a good position as of now.. her situation resembles Eldrene's.. she's even technically a queen, like Eldrene.. she's no long the strongest woman in the OP fighting for the light.. and one of the Kin (Sumeko I think it was) has just barely surpassed her in Healing ability. :(

 

Save Nynaeve.

[Roxinos]

 

I got what you were trying to say. And I was saying that you're placing the blame in a vacuum. You're ignoring the depth of the world and the characters. You're ignoring the reasons Mat would do something so stupid as take the dagger from Shadar Logoth in the first place in favor of a black-and-white, Mat is to blame perspective.

 

I believe that Mat is responsible for his actions while you believe he's immune to any blame because of his upbringing... hmmm...

 

 

No. I believe Mat is to blame for his actions. However, I don't believe the blame you can lay on his back is sufficient cause to develop distaste for him. Nor do I believe it is sufficient to make judgments on his character. Because he's not the only thing to blame, nor is he the most significant factor. *shrug*