Discuss The Full Book

[The Desert Pea]

I'm not reading all 38 pages of this, but...

 

In the epilogue, who are the people with the filed teeth? That sounds familiar to me. They aren't Sharan, are they?

[1eejit]

I'm not reading all 38 pages of this, but...

 

In the epilogue, who are the people with the filed teeth? That sounds familiar to me. They aren't Sharan, are they?

 

Theories abound. A popular one is that they are DF Aiel, possibly Dark Aiel Male Dreadlords.

[The Desert Pea]

I'm not reading all 38 pages of this, but...

 

In the epilogue, who are the people with the filed teeth? That sounds familiar to me. They aren't Sharan, are they?

 

Theories abound. A popular one is that they are DF Aiel, possibly Dark Aiel Male Dreadlords.

That was something that came to mind too.

[sdelu]

I'm not reading all 38 pages of this, but...

 

In the epilogue, who are the people with the filed teeth? That sounds familiar to me. They aren't Sharan, are they?

 

Theories abound. A popular one is that they are DF Aiel, possibly Dark Aiel Male Dreadlords.

That was something that came to mind too.

 

 

Some new Gholam. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

 

Even though we know there are DF Aiel from the male channelers sent to the blight (well, I've figured that since we first heard of that tradition, anyway), there's something off about them. He mistook their "sleek grace" for Myrddraal. Aiel are never described in such a way, but the Gholam is.

[JDJ]

For others who have Towers of Midnight, what did you make of the part with Lanfear and Rand at the end? Is it possible that some of the (seemingly) loony theories that she might actually end up being good will come true?

 

I suspect Rand rescues her / get control of the mindtrap, and ends up with Rand and Ny using Callandor.

[JDJ]

 

Red veiled Aiels? Care to explain?

 

Either just regular aiel who went into the blight to fight, but were captured and changed by the DO.

 

Even better, the aiel male chanellers who went to the blight to seek death, but were tured the the dark side ti fight at TG as some of thenew Dreadlords..>

[nolirion]

For others who have Towers of Midnight, what did you make of the part with Lanfear and Rand at the end? Is it possible that some of the (seemingly) loony theories that she might actually end up being good will come true?

 

I suspect Rand rescues her / get control of the mindtrap, and ends up with Rand and Ny using Callandor.

don't think so , for a time i tough that it was the soul of mierin (the idea was that by freeing the do he took her soul leading her to the shadow) then acting as a forsaken all that long and Rand finaly getting her freed some how from this evil possession (Raynor style).

But that just don't fell right it would be just to good , myself i think it's a trap made only to make him hesitate if he run across her .

[Dakota]

I just got done with ToM. I don't remember reading that Graendal killed Asmo... Did I just miss it??

It's easy to miss, I missed it too, at first.

Right before SH takes Graendal to have his way with her, he comments about how she was directly responsible for the deaths of three of the chosen. Arangar and Mesanna were in that book, and the only other Forsaken who's death can be pinned on her is Asmo. That's about the only in-context confirmation that she did it, weak and flimsy as it is.

 

But just to fully bury the issue, Graendal's entry in the glossary outright states that she was responsible for Asmo's death.

This wasn't a mystery as soon as we have her *first* PoV. Chapter 5. Moridin says something along the exact same lines as Shaidar Haran. Maybe it's because I was so sure it was Graendal anyway, but I'm shocked at the amount of people that seem to have missed that.

 

If the first PoV did have something like this, I might have missed it just because I was hoping for something explicit, "Graendal sighed as she recalled the sweet screams Asmodean made before her balefire took him" or something of that nature.

[Sharaman]

I'm not reading all 38 pages of this, but...

 

In the epilogue, who are the people with the filed teeth? That sounds familiar to me. They aren't Sharan, are they?

 

Theories abound. A popular one is that they are DF Aiel, possibly Dark Aiel Male Dreadlords.

That was something that came to mind too.

 

 

Some new Gholam. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

 

Even though we know there are DF Aiel from the male channelers sent to the blight (well, I've figured that since we first heard of that tradition, anyway), there's something off about them. He mistook their "sleek grace" for Myrddraal. Aiel are never described in such a way, but the Gholam is.

 

Contradictory descriptions - dark eyes, red veils and they take the veils off before killing.

Mind we don't even know they are channelers.

[toss the dice]

So... has Beslan been tampered with (heh) by Graendal? She spoke of starting to tie new strings to Tuon and that pretty-boy with his recent change of heart and conspicuous loyalty sounds like a decent candidate.

 

Ed: not that I'm attributing all of that to direct compulsion, though Graendal can be pretty subtle...

 

Is it possible that Beslan is Demandred? He said he had infiltrated a nations nobility but were not sure where. He and Graendal were working "together" at one point and Graendal seemed to think that she was in control of this partnership. Which is why she might think she has ties to Tuon. Also if he was recently taken by Demandred it would make sense that he would have a change of heart.

[1eejit]

So... has Beslan been tampered with (heh) by Graendal? She spoke of starting to tie new strings to Tuon and that pretty-boy with his recent change of heart and conspicuous loyalty sounds like a decent candidate.

 

Ed: not that I'm attributing all of that to direct compulsion, though Graendal can be pretty subtle...

 

Is it possible that Beslan is Demandred? He said he had infiltrated a nations nobility but were not sure where. He and Graendal were working "together" at one point and Graendal seemed to think that she was in control of this partnership. Which is why she might think she has ties to Tuon. Also if he was recently taken by Demandred it would make sense that he would have a change of heart.

 

Some of that fits, but I don't think so. For one thing Beslan would have to be one hell of an actor. None of the Forsaken have had cover identities with such existing power, importance and social standing. He's also been in situations where MoM would have been disrupted.

[sdelu]

Contradictory descriptions - dark eyes, red veils and they take the veils off before killing.

Mind we don't even know they are channelers.

 

 

Contradictory to what?

 

Dark eyes, red veils and taking the veils off before killing means they can't be Aiel twisted by the Shadow? Or Aiel bred in the blight? Why is this, exactly?

 

And what else would they be? Sharans, impersonating Aiel?

 

Or were you saying that in reference to my bold claim of them being Gholam? :p

[ravenprincess]

Best line of the book, imo: I need to write a letter to Her Royal bloody Majesty Queen Elayne the prim. Had me laughing for a full ten minutes!!!

 

Thanks everyone for all of the spoilers and willingness to answer questions for those of us who unfortunately had to wait a little longer to read and the suspense was killing us!!

 

Terez-I really think you have a point with your Ishamel/Lanfear theory. I was digging into the books and came across an interesting LTT quote "Demandred always wanted Illyena". It had occurred to me that this may be setting a precedent for a possible Ishy/Lanfear love triangle as well.

[ravenprincess]

One more thought, about Demandred. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dem state that his rule was secure about the same time that the BORH was assisting King Gallidron with securing his throne in Murandy? Could this be a hint to Dem's power base?

[Guest myrlin]

I've read somewhere that there was definitive information that Graendal killed Asmodean. Did I miss something while I was reading so fast I got a stomachache? Can someone point me to that specific area?

[sdelu]

I've read somewhere that there was definitive information that Graendal killed Asmodean. Did I miss something while I was reading so fast I got a stomachache? Can someone point me to that specific area?

 

 

The glossary. Heh.

 

Also...

 

"Aran'gar is dead, lost to us--and after the Great Lord transmigrated her soul the last time. One might think you are making a habit of this sort of thing, Graendal."

"I live to serve, Nae'blis," She said. Confidence! She had to seem confident.

He hesitated just briefly. Good. "Surely you do not imply that Aran'gar had turned traitor."

 

I don't see how this cannot be construed as proof itself.

[Behn]

Could someone please tell me where in this flaming thread the real discussion starts!? I have been skimming through page after bloody page looking for someone who wants to discuss what actually happened and not go through page after page of people who didn't read the bloody thing asking. "Did this happen?" "Did this other thing happen?" I did read the bloody thing and now I need to talk to those about what did happen, and what we think is going to happen, based on what we READ. I don't care if you want spoilers before you read it, I think that's insane, but its your own business. But come on! I understand that this is a spoiler forum, but that just doesn't mean all it is about is getting the juice without eating the bloody fruit. Please let me know where the good stuff is so I can join a real discussion.

[sdelu]

Could someone please tell me where in this flaming thread the real discussion starts!? I have been skimming through page after bloody page looking for someone who wants to discuss what actually happened and not go through page after page of people who didn't read the bloody thing asking. "Did this happen?" "Did this other thing happen?" I did read the bloody thing and now I need to talk to those about what did happen, and what we think is going to happen, based on what we READ. I don't care if you want spoilers before you read it, I think that's insane, but its your own business. But come on! I understand that this is a spoiler forum, but that just doesn't mean all it is about is getting the juice without eating the bloody fruit. Please let me know where the good stuff is so I can join a real discussion.

 

 

I've been looking for the same thing, Behn.

 

Likely there will not be any "uninterrupted" discussions until we get more specific topics.

 

But, please, post away. There are plenty of people who will discuss :)

[Seaine Sedai]

Okay, so I'm 230 pages in so far.

 

One thing is particularly puzzling me...are the Perrin and Rand arcs on different timelines? If not then HOW IN THE NINE HELLS is TAM AL'THOR in 2 places at once?

 

He's in Perrin's camp and he's still in Tear from the last book.

 

So that's my question. The rest I'm looking forward to reading and figuring out for myself (although I have the feeling that I'll blatantly miss what the BIG UNNOTICED THING is, so I might come back later and ask someone to point that out to me)

[Ozzie Mat]

Could someone please tell me where in this flaming thread the real discussion starts!? I have been skimming through page after bloody page looking for someone who wants to discuss what actually happened and not go through page after page of people who didn't read the bloody thing asking. "Did this happen?" "Did this other thing happen?" I did read the bloody thing and now I need to talk to those about what did happen, and what we think is going to happen, based on what we READ. I don't care if you want spoilers before you read it, I think that's insane, but its your own business. But come on! I understand that this is a spoiler forum, but that just doesn't mean all it is about is getting the juice without eating the bloody fruit. Please let me know where the good stuff is so I can join a real discussion.

 

 

I've been looking for the same thing, Behn.

 

Likely there will not be any "uninterrupted" discussions until we get more specific topics.

 

But, please, post away. There are plenty of people who will discuss :)

 

Good Call both of you.

 

First off I really enjoyed this book, especially Perrin (almost makes up for all the books of inaction and whinging) I loved the battle scenes linking together and especially how he just completely steam rolled egwene. As she thinks she is the master of the dream world, but like most things she is does she is too much of an aes sedai.

 

One thing that will hopefully be resolved early in the next book is the black tower - I assume the other dream spike is there somewhere preventing gateways. While on the black tower is the change we see in asha'man that are raised by Taim the effect of been forced to the shadow? The 13/13 trick hasn't been seen yet but it was mentioned very early in the books.

 

With what we see at the end of the book with Caemlyn and Kandor been ravaged by the shadow, I assume there will be war everywhere hopefully the seanchan will be humbled someway that Mat is required to save them thus helping them integrate into Rands efforts better.

 

I only finished the book this morning so really have not got my thoughts straight, will probably take a re-read to catch everything.

 

One final thing I have read a big discussion about Rand having no plan after he breaks the seals and egwene is smart to try and stop him, all the while comparing it to the fateful concord. I just like to add we rarely see any planning on screen - for example rand cleansing the taint, mat removing the gholam, etc. So I think Rand knows what he is doing as he has the benefit of learning from LTT mistakes. He just used egwene to get everyone together because as well see in the epilogue the borderlands are getting over run and a large force of soldiers and channelers is going to be needed to stop them.

 

Sorry for the rambling just some many things to discuss......

[locogu4]

First off, to answer people's questions about how Asmodean's killer was discovered (if not yet mentioned) was in the Epilogue. Graendal was blamed for the lives of THREE Forsaken. We know Aran' Gar because she abandoned her in Natrins Barrows when when Rand balefired the heck out of it. Graendal is responsible for Mesaana's... current state (dont want to say death just yet) because she was 'in charge' of Slayer with the dream spike. And the third? Well, that was our hint. ;)

 

 

I am all for an awesome discussion without people asking about what happened. Soooooooo, what do you guys think about the 'Prophecies of the Shadow'? regarding Perrin, do you think it is misinterpreted by the Shadow, or is Perrin just awesome enough to smack the Dark Prophecies in the face? This makes me wonder whether that the 'Fallen Blacksmith' and the 'Broken Wolf' aren't Perrin, or just one of them are?

 

The title of the book right now seems a bit weird to me. I understand that all the past titles have gone along with the prophecies, including this one, but what are the 'Midnight Towers' exactly. Feels like a dumb question, but I see no relation of title and book, except for the Prophecy at the end. I originally thought Tower of Midnight would be the Tower of Ghenji, but it's tower's'. I also read they had to do with the Seanchen, but the lack of them in the story, I don't believe that is the case. Am I missing something???

[locogu4]

Okay, so I'm 230 pages in so far.

 

One thing is particularly puzzling me...are the Perrin and Rand arcs on different timelines? If not then HOW IN THE NINE HELLS is TAM AL'THOR in 2 places at once?

 

He's in Perrin's camp and he's still in Tear from the last book.

 

So that's my question. The rest I'm looking forward to reading and figuring out for myself (although I have the feeling that I'll blatantly miss what the BIG UNNOTICED THING is, so I might come back later and ask someone to point that out to me)

 

 

Yes, they are two different timelines until the end. Perrin is 'catching up' from lack of story in previous book.

[Seaine Sedai]

Okay, so I'm 230 pages in so far.

 

One thing is particularly puzzling me...are the Perrin and Rand arcs on different timelines? If not then HOW IN THE NINE HELLS is TAM AL'THOR in 2 places at once?

 

He's in Perrin's camp and he's still in Tear from the last book.

 

So that's my question. The rest I'm looking forward to reading and figuring out for myself (although I have the feeling that I'll blatantly miss what the BIG UNNOTICED THING is, so I might come back later and ask someone to point that out to me)

 

 

Yes, they are two different timelines until the end. Perrin is 'catching up' from lack of story in previous book.

 

Oh good! Thanks for clearing that up. that was bugging the hell out of me

[Pilai]

Two questions for anyone who feels like answering...

 

1) In what way was this book "darker" than TGS? As far as I could tell, pretty much everything in this book was a turn around (in a good way) from the evil/twisted events happening in TGS and even before. There were bad things happening, but nothing like Rand's turning to the dark side, or the general bleakness of almost the entire world. The closest this book got to "dark" was when Perrin wasn't making his intentions 500% clear that he was there to save the Whitecloaks instead of killing them, except even then if you were paying attention at all to the story you wouldn't have been fooled. Can anyone tell me what they were thinking when describing the book that way in previews or promos?

 

2) What was the big reveal from the Glossary? I couldn't find anything in there that was important that was revealed during ToM. Anyone know which entry they were referring to?

[Diederichos]

1. Read the Asmodean part of the glossary.

 

2. I think ToM broadly corresponds to what would have been the middle part of aMoL had it stayed as a single or even a two-piece book. Now I am not sure of this at all, but I believe that RJ did not intend the books to be so cut up in terms of character perspective, or if he did it would have sorta been bad. But I think that from a story structure, ToG would have been close to Dragonmount which might have been close to the BT parts. At least, in terms of emotional punch, that would have made sense. Of course, I am completely making this up based on my impression so take that with a few grains of salt.