Evil vs Good?

[Guest Heine]

I've read trough the entire series sevral times, and at the moment I'm rereading TGS to be ready for Tower of Midnight (not read anything of the pre-released stuff to stay unspoiled). About 4-5 books ago I started thinking about this theory, but never posted it anywhere. Did a quick search earlier today to see if the was PP but couldn't find anything on here.

 

Some/most poeple think that The Creator is good, if you look at it like christianity he is God. While The Dark One is evil, like the Satan. While there is probobly good support for it in the books I don't really belive this to be true. I will post a little writeup of the background for my theory, then come with a conclusion at the end

 

So looking at some things we know from the books (can't quote since I'm at university without the books), when the dark one is gaining in power bad things seems to happen with the world, the weather gets out of control and his followers are splitting up the factions of Randland (think splitting of the tower, Arad Doman, Seanchan comeing back to Randland etc), and stuff like that.

 

At the same time we know that the wheel and the weave is all about balance. Good things happen and bad things happen in about the same frequence.

 

Those are two facts (I think they are atleast :-p) I get from the books, now I want to look at Rand himself. In the start of the series he was a pretty normal boy/man and the world was in balance and his Ta'verenes was balanced out. Now in TGS we see that Ta'verenes still works, but it's not balanced at all. Why? I think this has to be with him comeing closer and closer to the DO, but you can't really see Rand getting evil? Atleast I can't see him getting evil, but something is happening with him and with the world it seems. I belive that there is a link between Rand and the world, maybe becuse he is an extreme Ta'veren or maybe becuse he is The Dragon Reborn (dosen't a part of the propechy say something about the Dragon being one with the land).

 

Also, looking at the series alot seem to be about balance, Saidin/Saidar, The wheel itself etc.

 

Then I would also like to take a quick glance at the fighting between the chosen, the DO does seem to encourage them to fight between eachother even though this is ineffective. Why does he let them do that?

 

So what is my conclusion on this?

1) The Dark One is not "evil" in the way we regard evil, he's chaos. The opposite of the Wheel and the Weave who is created by The Creator to bring order and balance to the world. That does in my opinion make The Creater order. He wants everything balanced. He does not make a world without suffering, but he makes a world where we got both suffering and happines, War and peace, Saidin and Saidar.

Everything in the series seems to me to be about balance, and therefor I belive that this is the fact with the DO and the Creator aswell but not Good/Evil but Chaos/Order.

The Dark One being chaos also fits with the fact that the chosen fights like children, that there are no order in how they work (I know this has changed abit now with Moridin and Shaidar'Haran), and the fact that the DO wanted them to bring chaos to the world.

 

2) Rand is connected to the land like no other man, and he is Ta'veren like noone else. Ta'veren is spun into the world to cause order, but the changes in Rand (until end of TGS) makes him closer and closer to the DO (so close he can use the DO's power, who can be used by everyone, aka anarcy aka Chaos) and this makes the world affected by Rand turn into Chaos. The ghost, more and more "bubbles of evil", the world shifting around, grain spoiling. I don't really belive all the effects to be the hand of the DO, but the effect that Rand is getting closer to the DO and therefor his Ta'verenes has turned into chaos. I also belive that Ishamael understood this and knew of the connection between the world and Rand. Therefor it was important for him (and the DO) to get Rand on their side, much more important than killing Rand.

 

Thanks for reading this, even though you might not agree with me. Wanted to post it to see what other poeple think, and see if anyone have had the same thoughts as me. Also, sorry for my not perfect english, hopefully it's not too hard to read (I blame my parents for being Norwegian:-p )

 

 

Let the lord of chaos rule!

[Barid Bel Medar]

Nice, not many construct as good first posts. Mostly first posts are Taim=Demandred Olver=Gaidal Cain.

 

I am in agreement partially. I agree that the Creator is not "Good". I think he is neutral. He takes no part in the Wheel after its creation.

 

The DO is a malign entity sealed outside the pattern by the creator. I would not say that he embodies chaos. I would tend to lean more towards Oblivion. The DO doesnt want to mess with people like Semirhage torturing her patients. The DO wants to destory creation itself. Look at the True Power, essance of the DO. It is a force of destruction. Witness travelling, it rips a hole in the pattern.

 

So I would say it was Creator= Neutral, "I WILL NOT TAKE PART" he is the creator, like an inventor, but thats as far as it goes. He allows the world "free will" so to speak.

 

The DO = Destruction/Oblivion. He wants to destroy the pattern, the wheel and everything in between.

[FarShainMael]

But what do you mean by 'good' and 'evil'?

 

The word 'evil' is often used to mean something which has no positive side whatsoever, something that is done simply because it is bad.. I suggest that there can be lesser evils, things which you might not think of as evil: manslaughter is a (marginally!) lesser evil than murder; GBH less still; hitting someone hard enough to bruise but not to break bones much less; and so on all the way down to Many of these actions, though bad for the target, can be partially excused by lack of intent to injure or kill, or self-defence.

 

'Good' is more than just the lack of these things; that would be 'neutral'. Good actions are those which bring positive benefits to the individual and / or the group. Mind you, this is all very black-and-white, all very simplistic, and philosophy professors delight in getting their students debating 'ethical dilemmas' which explore their various ramifications. I'll leave those an an exercise for the reader; it doesn't affect the basic concepts.

 

There are those who would say that concepts like destruction, oblivion, chaos, are intrinsically evil, inasmuch as they would not want those things to happen to them - and I wouldn't disagree. With that in mind, the concept of balance in the WoT requires that these things be balanced by something good: creation v destruction, existence v oblivion, order v chaos. These are, must be, the attributes of the entity that balances the DO: the Creator. Hence the Creator is what we would recognise as Good.

 

You could even say that the Creator's gift of freewill to his human creations is itself a manifestation of goodness, since it allows self-determination. By implication, therefore, things like the a'dam', the Compulsion weave, some aspects of the Warder bond, and even the Oath Rod, are all evil.

[Durinax]

I like how physics full WoT is especially how RJ used the Chaos Theory to illustrate the ultimate darkness and used the 'Creator' as sort of a big bang type entity that has caused everythign and now is just watchign sort of thing

[Ozzie_aiel]

I've always seen the Creator and the Dark one as two seperate sides of the same coin.

 

On the side the story is now, the Creator is natural, ergo good, while the Dark one is Unnatural, therefore bad. It is not a conscious thing, it is the way they are.

 

Who knows, if the DO wins, he flips the coin and gets to make everything in his image and become the good one

[Sharaman]

The Creator and GLoD were one and the same. Then the Creator did a spiritual 13x13 on himself, and isolated the nasty elements and locked them away.

[Magnetic Zero]

So...the Great Lord is Armus, then?

[FarShainMael]

Nice one!!

[Naffy]

Great episode. Tasha Yar bugged the hell out of me.

[jdbond]

We can bash Christians beliefs later. Let us concentrate on books for now.

[Naffy]

We can bash Christians beliefs later. Let us concentrate on books for now.

wAt?