The Forsaken are acting for the Creator

[nlvulture]

Sounds crazy eh? Well it is but....

 

The Forsaken are part of the pattern. They were born in the pattern, acted in the pattern, so in my view, they cannot really harm the pattern in a structural way. If they cannot hurt the pattern then the wheel will keep on turning and the darkone will not be completely free

Balefire seems to be the exception but for some reason they "agreed" not to use it anymore in the War of Power in the AOL. So the DO probably knows that Balefire itself will not disrupt the pattern enough for him to be completely "free" (what does that mean btw, He now isnt part of the pattern but if he breaks the wheel there is no pattern to be free off)

 

Especially in the first books it seems almost 'obvious' the pattern is guiding the forsaken.

What do the forces of the Dark achieve in the first book? They hurried the Dragon reborn to the Gap to get its invasion army beaten to pulp.

in The great hunt? They enable the Dragon to delay the 'Homecoming' and Declare himself

in The Dragon Reborn they chase and lure him to Tear so he can get his sword and find his people

in The Shadow Rising they give him a much needed Teacher

Also consider Luc/Isam. Gitara Moroso had a prophesy that sending Luc to the Blight was needed and the prophesies are always part of the pattern as Cads explained. So allthough it is not Good to give the forces of the Dark a killer that can move anywhere at any time for the pattern it was needed or will be in the end.

 

Thinking like this I think I have maybe a kindling of Understanding why the Dark One is so obsessed by Rand. Rand is the strongest Tavernen and has 2 Tavernen friends. If he can get them in the place where the pattern is thinnest (=at its weakest point) and can influence their actions: since the pattern bends to their will in a way, he can then maybe let Rand kill the pattern as almost happened in TGS.

[Demiandre]

There are Dark Prophecies, and I suppose they become fulfilled too. So I think they work for the Pattern, but not for the Creator. The Pattern is neither good nor bad. It weaves at it wills. Nothing more.

[nlvulture]

There are Dark Prophecies, and I suppose they become fulfilled too. So I think they work for the Pattern, but not for the Creator. The Pattern is neither good nor bad. It weaves at it wills. Nothing more.

True but the Creator is also neither good nor bad. He creates the pattern and wants it to run. That is it he doesn't want to meddle.

[Demiandre]

There are Dark Prophecies, and I suppose they become fulfilled too. So I think they work for the Pattern, but not for the Creator. The Pattern is neither good nor bad. It weaves at it wills. Nothing more.

True but the Creator is also neither good nor bad. He creates the pattern and wants it to run. That is it he doesn't want to meddle.

The Creator is not neutral. He is non-acting only. But good nonetheless.

[Arkane101]

The Creator is good the Dark One is evil, the pattern is neither good nor evil, thats how it's said in one of the first books by Moiraine or whoever said it..

[RedRaider]

I'm not so sure about the Balefire thing either. In the prologue to EoTW, LT is standing on what will become Dragonmount and calls down the thunder. The description of what he called was balefire. If that's the case then how can he still be in the pattern? He should have effectively eliminated his thread. I know what RJ said about balefire but the description is acurate.

[Demiandre]

Someone dead with Balefire isn't forever erased from the Pattern. He can still be reborn another time, another turning, or whatever.

[nlvulture]

I'm not so sure about the Balefire thing either. In the prologue to EoTW, LT is standing on what will become Dragonmount and calls down the thunder. The description of what he called was balefire. If that's the case then how can he still be in the pattern? He should have effectively eliminated his thread. I know what RJ said about balefire but the description is acurate.

I thought I read here somewhere that it is confirmed that what LTT did wasn't balefire.

[nlvulture]

The Creator is good the Dark One is evil, the pattern is neither good nor evil, thats how it's said in one of the first books by Moiraine or whoever said it..

Hmmm interesting. The way you describe it, the Creator and the DO are on the same level in relation to the Wheel of Time. If one whould assume that the Creator created the Wheel of Time (what is in a name eh )then he would also have made the mechanics of the pattern. If he would be actively good then he could have made the pattern only creating ages that are/were heaven to live in. That hasn't happened in at least the last 3000 year in Wot

while the DO was bound.

 

I was assuming the Creator and the pattern want the same thing (to continue the pattern/let the WOT run) but if that isn't true then I still stand with the point that all the evil characters besides Fain are part of the pattern and hence in no way capable of killing it.

[yoniy0]

I thought I read here somewhere that it is confirmed that what LTT did wasn't balefire.

Indeed, RJ said so himself.

[Ozzie_aiel]

Seems a bit wierd Lews therin not using Balefire, knowing what effect it could have on what has happened. LTT kills family, LTT gets Re-sane-ified by Ishy, LTT travels to site of Future Dragonmount and balefires himself as hard as he can.... and dead family no longer dead.

[yoniy0]

Aha! A valid point. And proof positive that he didn't BFed himself (since we know that, as you put it, dead-family was very much dead even after he killed himself). I know some of you purists don't like to base theories on what RJ said outside of the books.

[Majsju]

Seems a bit wierd Lews therin not using Balefire, knowing what effect it could have on what has happened. LTT kills family, LTT gets Re-sane-ified by Ishy, LTT travels to site of Future Dragonmount and balefires himself as hard as he can.... and dead family no longer dead.

 

It might simply be impossible to balefire yourself. Like how it is impossible to use Healing on yourself.

Though, imagine the paradox if it was possible, first you balefire yourself, meaning that you died before you could balefire yourself, so you should not really be dead at all.

[Sharaman]

Seems a bit wierd Lews therin not using Balefire, knowing what effect it could have on what has happened. LTT kills family, LTT gets Re-sane-ified by Ishy, LTT travels to site of Future Dragonmount and balefires himself as hard as he can.... and dead family no longer dead.

 

It might simply be impossible to balefire yourself. Like how it is impossible to use Healing on yourself.

Though, imagine the paradox if it was possible, first you balefire yourself, meaning that you died before you could balefire yourself, so you should not really be dead at all.

 

Didn't RJ make a humorous comment about this when he was asked if you can BF yourself using a mirror?

Something like "you need to get laid more often!"

I like the concept of a make-and-break BF circuit - a chap eternally flashing in/ out of existence. It would look nice.

[Demiandre]

I like the concept of a make-and-break BF circuit - a chap eternally flashing in/ out of existence. It would look nice.

 

It remind me the surge of Power Egwene felt when touching the broken Choedan Kal in Tanchico.