So, who hates them Aes Sedai?

[Siobhan]

Ooooh, I definitely don't like the Aes Sedai as a whole at this point. They've withdrawn from reality and become ineffectual; they're all bluster and arrogance, no substance. They waltz in uninvited, act like they have some right to take control, and dismiss the concerns and ideas of anyone who can't channel (or who isn't as "strong" in the Power. Nynaeve is on the mark when she says the current system is all wrong). They're petty and they're cowardly, and they refuse to adapt.

 

But, then...I think that's part of the point; it's entropy at work. And anyway, they aren't nearly as terrible as the Atha'an Miere!

 

"...but instead Egwene is lost up her own back end..."

 

Whoooa, totally disagree, there. She's the one who's been trying to get them to stop bickering, unite, modernize, and prepare for the Last Battle. Sure, that required her to do some politicking so that she could fully establish command, but she's the only out of any of them with the guts and the sense of honor to turn the Tower around and get them to start doing what they should be doing.

[Durinax]

"...but instead Egwene is lost up her own back end..."

 

Whoooa, totally disagree, there. She's the one who's been trying to get them to stop bickering, unite, modernize, and prepare for the Last Battle. Sure, that required her to do some politicking so that she could fully establish command, but she's the only out of any of them with the guts and the sense of honor to turn the Tower around and get them to start doing what they should be doing.

I have to disagree with you on this point, I personally feel she is sliding into the general AS mindset. She seems to be following the same arch rand did when he came out of the waste where he was seeing people as tools he could use, regardless of personal attachments. The only difference between him (at that point) and her (at this point) is that he knew where he lacked in strength, I get the impression from Egwene that she thinks she can do everything and that she knows best.

[Dagon Thyne]

And the worst of all they let two of the most powerful nations fall into destruction by not being there (Malkier and Manetheren) and betrayal.

 

For Manetheran:

That was not the fault of the Aes Sedai in general. Tetsuan, the Amrylin, was the one who betrayed them, not the entire White Tower.

 

For Malkier:

They didn't just sit by and let them die, they sent nearly a hundred sisters. But remember, it's a LONG way from Tar Valon to Malkier. And they didn't have Travelling. In this case, I really don't see how they can be faulted.

I agree on both points...and they did depose Tetsuan for her actions....

 

But that is only two parts.....the White ATower is guilty of many many things...two things that hey did do right does not excuse them...

[Dagon Thyne]

Anyone else see the stupidity in the test for the shawl..? The test to become Aes Sedai is 100% to do with controlling the power under difficult circumstances, yet to be Aes Sedai is meant to be so much more? Shouldn't there be some mental test, emotional test, intelligence test?

 

 

I see stupidity in most of the tower customs...

 

Most of all the custom of the weaker but more experienced defering to someone else simply because they are more powerful overall...

 

A strong but inexperienced sister could easily be defeated in battle by someone who was weaker because they would be more experienced in many differet weaves and be able to cast them faster....

[LazyMonk]

While I don't 'hate' the AS, The white tower is a prime example of an institute that started for a good cause and was reduced because of corruption, pride, ignorance (and many more reasons) and no longer has justification for existing.

Enough so that now it must be taken apart and rebuilt from the ground up (which is what Egwene doing) in order to once again work for the cause it was created for (fight the dark).

[Siobhan]

I have to disagree with you on this point, I personally feel she is sliding into the general AS mindset. She seems to be following the same arch rand did when he came out of the waste where he was seeing people as tools he could use, regardless of personal attachments. The only difference between him (at that point) and her (at this point) is that he knew where he lacked in strength, I get the impression from Egwene that she thinks she can do everything and that she knows best.

 

I can definitely see your point, but to me, a lot of Egwene's apparent arrogance is born of that fact that, well...she's kind of been surrounded by people who refuse to face reality and who are in denial about their own growing irrelevance. She couldn't have gotten the AS to listen to her, to accept her as a leader, without being forceful and self-assured -- and they need someone like her, someone who stands up and says, "we need to make some changes," if they have any hope of doing any good come Tarmon Gai'don (I suppose the question that'll be brought up is: is she willing to make enough changes? What if she leaves the wrong customs intact? That'd kinda suck). I also don't think that she necessarily thinks that she always knows best; she's been able to listen to others and admit when they're right or know more than she does.

 

All of that said, I do think there's a danger of her getting a little too Aes Sedai for her own (or anybody's) good. I guess we shall have to see!

[Tom Sawyer]

I think that they have dropped the ball for the most part and Lurkers had a thread a while back detailing all the reasons why which summed it up nicely.

 

The thing that bugs me the most is the Green Ajah. They say they're there to battle the Shadow, but they don't seem to spend a hell of a lot of time doing that. If there's 200 of them, I really don't see why there aren't at least 150 stationed up along the Blight at all times helping out the Borderlanders and only leaving a token presence in Tar Valon. That way, they'd have had at least a couple dozen in Malkier and been able to do some good. Also, maybe they'd have learned how to fight with the Power at some point over the last couple of thousand years and wouldn't have been so pathetic against the Seanchan.

 

Second only to that is the Yellow Ajah. Why are they in Tar Valon? Healing is the #1 ability that th Aes Sedai have and a few hospitals scattered around the continent showing people the benefits of working with Aes Sedai would do more for promoting and extending their influence than any number of overly complex and intricate plots.

 

They've been living with the attitude that they are so superior to everyone else in the world and nobody matters except for them. That's fine when they're correct about their superiority and nobody can mount a serious challenge to them, but as soon as they run into anyone else who can also use the Power, it's revealed what incompetent dimwits they really are.

[White_star]

(I apologize in advance if this turns into an Egwene hate thread because of this.)

 

...she's been able to listen to others and admit when they're right or know more than she does

Mothers milk in a cup! I have yet to see that. She doesn't even admit that to herself. She justifies everything she does to make her seam right. And, Light forbid a man would know something she does not and have her admit it or acknowledge it.

[NetSlider]

(I apologize in advance if this turns into an Egwene hate thread because of this.)

 

...she's been able to listen to others and admit when they're right or know more than she does

Mothers milk in a cup! I have yet to see that. She doesn't even admit that to herself. She justifies everything she does to make her seam right. And, Light forbid a man would know something she does not and have her admit it or acknowledge it.

 

I have to say that Nyn's influence on Egwene growing up is def more and more visible (mule-head does not cover even half). Anything and everything is ok as long as Tower is whole. Did she ask this question - do we need the Tower to be whole? (I mean, of course we do, but still she can ask that question. Or maybe a question about what tower we need - maybe light pink or baby blue - all i'm saying is shop around, that all!)

 

P.S. Wouldn't be ironic if Ashaman move into the tower Elaida begun to construct? (just thinking about it makes me giggle!)

[Luckers]

Did she ask this question - do we need the Tower to be whole?

 

She did actually ask this question--during her little dream sequence, she asks it, and stands in front of the Tower wondering if it is time to let it fall.

 

P.S. Wouldn't be ironic if Ashaman move into the tower Elaida begun to construct? (just thinking about it makes me giggle!)

 

I wrote a theory about this, some time back. I like the thought.