Graendal - Ituralde

[Kivam]

So, I was thinking today. Graendal was killed with a massive amount of Balefire. Enough to wipe out her instructions to Ituralde? The ones that led to the insurgency, and his eventual alliance with Rand?

[Barid Bel Medar]

So, I was thinking today. Graendal was killed with a massive amount of Balefire. Enough to wipe out her instructions to Ituralde? The ones that led to the insurgency, and his eventual alliance with Rand?

 

No, its impossible.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Chester County Books, Philadelphia 6 November 2009 - Paul Grow reporting

 

One fan asked him...if the balefiring of Graendal could bring back Asmodean, if in fact Graendal was the person who killed him. Brandon essentially said no, because it happened much too long ago. At best balefire burns someone out of the Pattern 3 days to a week at the absolute most. But usually more like 5 minutes.

 

I assume it has been longer than a week since Graendal compulsed him. So yeah, thats a no.

[Kivam]

Hmmm . . . that would certainly put a damper on it.

 

But 5 minutes? Really? Even 3 days to a week seems kind of light for a weapon that almost destroyed the entire pattern. If you burn out a whole city for 3 days, there would only be limited external interactions to correct

[Luckers]

Hmmm . . . that would certainly put a damper on it.

 

But 5 minutes? Really? Even 3 days to a week seems kind of light for a weapon that almost destroyed the entire pattern. If you burn out a whole city for 3 days, there would only be limited external interactions to correct

 

Consider the complexity of those limited interactions though. A person moves and air is moved by his movement. Millions of molecules re-arranged in a simple gesture.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Also, if you take into account that it was a World War, the cities would be populated with soldiers.

 

If you burn them out 3 days to a week, they could have just come back from a skirmish or an assult, killing thousands. Also, consider the traders and travellers. Everything would be in flux. From something as simple as a trader bumping into someone causing a bruise to the soldiers killing, and their victims reborn. It would seriously mess with the fabric of the world.

 

Note also that "several cities were wiped out by balefire". That means multiple cities (obviously haha) being wiped out for who knows how long. This went on for a full year before both sides stopped. Thats a considerable amount of Balefire if it was the weapon of choice. SO a year of Balefiring everyone and everything "nearly unravelles the pattern". That means the pattern is pretty darn tight if it can resist that.

[CTKShadow]

Furthermore, even if Graendal could have been burned back that far, the memory of her actions (instructions) would remain. If she had compelled Ituralde directly, then the compulsion would be gone. However, as I recall, it was a forged note which Ituralde received. Even if it was delivered by her hand (which it wasn't), the memory would still remain. Since she wasn't the one to physically deliver it, neither the letter nor the memory of the letter would be affected.

[Crael123]

Your also assuming Graendal is dead.

[Sharaman]

Quite likely, Ituralde did have Compulsion laid on him as well - a light C that told him to follow the King's instructions without question. He met Graendal in Natrims Barrow in LoC. However, that was a long time ago - far too long ago for the Compulsion to be burnt out by the TGS balefire.

[BareUpperLip79]

When I first read the passage of Herid Fel talking to Rand I got really excited about this idea. I thought I knew how the Last Battle would be won.

 

Basically, a big circle, with sa'angrael, and Rand leading would smash Lanfear with massive amounts of Balefire, BF'ing her back a few millenia to before she drilled the bore.

 

I now know I was wrong about that.

 

Interesting question though.. obviously Rand can make big BF and small BF. Palace-size and finger-thin (at the end of FoH). Presumably Big BF requires more power than small BF.

The question is: "Are the 'size' of the BF stream, the amount of OP required, and the amount of 'burnt back' time all directly proportional?"

[KefkaPalazzo]

I imagine that the physical size of the bolt is completely irrelevant. I think they are relevant to the size of the thing that is being wiped out. Small bolts for individual people/things, and large ones for large areas, buildings, etc. In other words, it's just a convenience issue. However, the amount of the OP committed to weaving balefire DOES have to do with how far back the target is burned.

 

Also, Rand's average BF bolt (as in, without the CK) burns quite a bit more than 5 minutes back. When he killed Rahvin in book 5, it's generally accepted that it was about 15-20 minutes that were undone. He's gotten quite a bit stronger since then. I'm guessing here, but the palace was likely burned back no more than a day and a half. He wasn't pushing the CK to its limits, but was still drawing from it. Either way, it was about 364 days short of what it needed to be to bring back Asmodean.

[lordofsoup]

and that is assuming that she killed Asmodean. gotcha

[KefkaPalazzo]

and that is assuming that she killed Asmodean. gotcha

 

Yup. When people ask BS about the palace, they are asking, in a roundabout way whether she killed him. BS isn't buying it, but he uses pretty much exactly that explanation to say "Really guys, he's dead and not coming back."

[Byzantine279]

He says something like "even if blank did kill him, the most balefire could possible burn back with the maximum strength of the CK, assumming it makes Rand 100 times stronger and he burned Rahvin back 15 minutes is 25 hours" in other words, asmo is dead and not coming back unless the DO decides he wants to bring him back for some reason or other (ya, right).