Do male channelors age as slowly as female?

[Dagon Thyne]

How long can a channelor live?

 

I was looking at a timeline of the events during the Age of Legenda and it said that LTT lived for over 1000 years before the bore was made......I'm wondering how loing they can actually live for....

[CTKShadow]

I don't think over 1000 is accurate. The number I hear quite often is 500. We know that LTT was around middle-aged, and while middle aged at 500 is probably possible for a channeler of his strength, there is no way he would be over 1000 and still looking middle aged.

[Kaznen]

The the average lifespan of a AoL Channler (AS) was 600 years. Being bound to one or more oaths cuts the remaining years is half. Remember Demi was one day younger then LTT and I think he was at most 400. Most of the other forsaken are around 300, Grendal mentions she is.

[Luckers]

How long can a channelor live?

 

I was looking at a timeline of the events during the Age of Legenda and it said that LTT lived for over 1000 years before the bore was made......I'm wondering how loing they can actually live for....

 

No, that's wrong. Even in the Age of Legends the longest a channeler lived was into their seven hundreds. The average expectancy was in the six hundreds. In modern times it is less due to the lack of the Restorers health care, general quality of living and sung food. Average is probably in the five hundreds with some, like the woman from Tear, making it into the six hundreds.

 

In answer to the question in your title--yes, men age as slowly as women. It varies depending on strength in the Power, and men start slowing a little later than woman (men slow in their late twenties, women in their early twenties), but the male life and the female life is to the same extent.

[Al Jenn Mael]

And do we know about male and female warders lifespan and how it applies to those bonded by Asha'man and those bonded by Aes Sedai?

 

I was looking for the section where it tells of a warders age, I believe Verin talks about how long her and Tomas have been together...

 

Also those wilders out there who never train and learn there ability, how do they fail to realize that they can channel after living 200 +years. (Say if Nyneave never encountered an Aes Sedai)

[Auld Manriva]

And do we know about male and female warders lifespan and how it applies to those bonded by Asha'man and those bonded by Aes Sedai? I was looking for the section where it tells of a warders age, I believe Verin talks about how long her and Tomas have been together...

 

Also those wilders out there who never train and learn there ability, how do they fail to realize that they can channel after living 200 +years. (Say if Nyneave never encountered an Aes Sedai)

 

I don't believe "self-trained" channelers or wilders if you prefer live substantially longer lives. I'm not exactly sure why.

 

I've just listened to tEotW and I recall Moiraine telling Eggs or Nynaeve that wilders will die early (early in relation to those trained maybe?). Nyn's predecessor as Wisdom for example it seemed to me could channel. As could a couple others in the region that Nynaeve thought to herself about. They were none of them singled out as long lived.

 

We know that damane who are trained have the possibility of very long lives; probably on par with AoL channelers. Alivia is what 600 give or take? They're called wilders but in actuality they are not.

 

My long winded rambling point is; untrained channelers don't seem to grow exceedingly old so remarkable age wouldn't be a tip-off.

[Al Jenn Mael]

The Kin, Seafolk, Aiel all show signs of living longer lives. I believe that when Moraine told Egwene that usually wilders die young is when they first learn to channel if they don't die they usually form a block. It's called something like their trial or something... I'm going to have to look this up now. Anyways I don't see why self taught wilders would or those who channel unknowingly wouldn't live as long as anyone else... especially since the Kin who rarely ever channel have long life spans.

[Auld Manriva]

When I said "die early" I meant in relation to channelers who are trained, not the normal human life span. This is just conjecture on my part, adding 2+2 from one short passage. I'm not even sure those women in the TR region Could channel. The insinuation just seemed fairly clear to me.

 

Kin, Aiel, Seafolk, Damane; they all are trained in some manner to control their ability and allow it to extend their lifespan. Tower training as we know is NOT the only way to learn to control it despite what the AS thought. If they bend their stiff necks a bit they may even learn to encompass other techniques and improve what they do.

[Kaznen]

The Kin, Wise Ones, and Windfinders live much longer then AS because they don't use the Oath Rod.

[Cut Strand]

When I said "die early" I meant in relation to channelers who are trained, not the normal human life span. This is just conjecture on my part, adding 2+2 from one short passage. I'm not even sure those women in the TR region Could channel. The insinuation just seemed fairly clear to me.

 

Kin, Aiel, Seafolk, Damane; they all are trained in some manner to control their ability and allow it to extend their lifespan. Tower training as we know is NOT the only way to learn to control it despite what the AS thought. If they bend their stiff necks a bit they may even learn to encompass other techniques and improve what they do.

If an untrained sparker survives long enough to develop a block or to safely touch the one power, she will live start to slow age just like anyone else. So a Sparker that goes to the White Tower at age 18 will probably live longer than a 52 year old grandmother that can learn and starts learning then.

 

Sparkers are going to start channeling eventually no matter what (the first few channeling events are the result of desires like "I really want this dress" becomes "a compulsion to make daddy buy said dress").

 

The extra fatigue they experience afterward is what kills 3 out of 4 sparking women. It think the extra fatigue is the result of improperly using the Power. First you are supposed to touch it (surrender/embrace for saidar and dominate/seize for saidin), then you channel. I think untrained Sparkers unconsciously touch and channel at once, which sounds more exhausting. It is probably doubly dangerous for women because snatching saidar isn't how it is most easily used.

[chuckievi]

When I said "die early" I meant in relation to channelers who are trained, not the normal human life span. This is just conjecture on my part, adding 2+2 from one short passage. I'm not even sure those women in the TR region Could channel. The insinuation just seemed fairly clear to me.

 

Kin, Aiel, Seafolk, Damane; they all are trained in some manner to control their ability and allow it to extend their lifespan. Tower training as we know is NOT the only way to learn to control it despite what the AS thought. If they bend their stiff necks a bit they may even learn to encompass other techniques and improve what they do.

If an untrained sparker survives long enough to develop a block or to safely touch the one power, she will live start to slow age just like anyone else. So a Sparker that goes to the White Tower at age 18 will probably live longer than a 52 year old grandmother that can learn and starts learning then.

 

Sparkers are going to start channeling eventually no matter what (the first few channeling events are the result of desires like "I really want this dress" becomes "a compulsion to make daddy buy said dress").

 

The extra fatigue they experience afterward is what kills 3 out of 4 sparking women. It think the extra fatigue is the result of improperly using the Power. First you are supposed to touch it (surrender/embrace for saidar and dominate/seize for saidin), then you channel. I think untrained Sparkers unconsciously touch and channel at once, which sounds more exhausting. It is probably doubly dangerous for women because snatching saidar isn't how it is most easily used.

 

I think that is only true if they learn how to consciously channel. In the case of a wilder who develops a block and as such only uses the power rarely if ever, they may slow but it will be in a lower amount than someone who channels frequently. My understanding is that people slow in relation to how much raw power they actually do channel, which is why stronger channelers slow more than weaker channelers.

[Al Jenn Mael]

When I said "die early" I meant in relation to channelers who are trained, not the normal human life span. This is just conjecture on my part, adding 2+2 from one short passage. I'm not even sure those women in the TR region Could channel. The insinuation just seemed fairly clear to me.

 

Kin, Aiel, Seafolk, Damane; they all are trained in some manner to control their ability and allow it to extend their lifespan. Tower training as we know is NOT the only way to learn to control it despite what the AS thought. If they bend their stiff necks a bit they may even learn to encompass other techniques and improve what they do.

If an untrained sparker survives long enough to develop a block or to safely touch the one power, she will live start to slow age just like anyone else. So a Sparker that goes to the White Tower at age 18 will probably live longer than a 52 year old grandmother that can learn and starts learning then.

 

Sparkers are going to start channeling eventually no matter what (the first few channeling events are the result of desires like "I really want this dress" becomes "a compulsion to make daddy buy said dress").

 

The extra fatigue they experience afterward is what kills 3 out of 4 sparking women. It think the extra fatigue is the result of improperly using the Power. First you are supposed to touch it (surrender/embrace for saidar and dominate/seize for saidin), then you channel. I think untrained Sparkers unconsciously touch and channel at once, which sounds more exhausting. It is probably doubly dangerous for women because snatching saidar isn't how it is most easily used.

 

I think that is only true if they learn how to consciously channel. In the case of a wilder who develops a block and as such only uses the power rarely if ever, they may slow but it will be in a lower amount than someone who channels frequently. My understanding is that people slow in relation to how much raw power they actually do channel, which is why stronger channelers slow more than weaker channelers.

 

Then why do the kin who rarely if ever channel after they've learned not to die from it live so long?

[chuckievi]

I think that is only true if they learn how to consciously channel. In the case of a wilder who develops a block and as such only uses the power rarely if ever, they may slow but it will be in a lower amount than someone who channels frequently. My understanding is that people slow in relation to how much raw power they actually do channel, which is why stronger channelers slow more than weaker channelers.

 

Then why do the kin who rarely if ever channel after they've learned not to die from it live so long?

 

Well then one of us is wrong, because I was under the impression they do channel, just not constantly. In fact I was under the impression the red sashed healers used their abilities to heal those in need, they just used herbal methods in conjunction.

[Luckers]

I think that is only true if they learn how to consciously channel. In the case of a wilder who develops a block and as such only uses the power rarely if ever, they may slow but it will be in a lower amount than someone who channels frequently. My understanding is that people slow in relation to how much raw power they actually do channel, which is why stronger channelers slow more than weaker channelers.

 

Then why do the kin who rarely if ever channel after they've learned not to die from it live so long?

 

Well then one of us is wrong, because I was under the impression they do channel, just not constantly. In fact I was under the impression the red sashed healers used their abilities to heal those in need, they just used herbal methods in conjunction.

 

Both of you are referencing something from the books. Aes Sedai believe the Kin almost give up channeling altogether--but they don't, they are just very cautious not to be caught channeling. Elayne speaks of how happy Reanne was to be free to channel, but she means channel openly. We know that they did channel with relative frequency--we see them do so in Ebou Dar--and certainly that was enough for them to fully slow.

[Al Jenn Mael]

“It’s your ages, Reanne.” Elayne did not exactly sound hesitant — she never did that — but her tone became very careful. “It is considered rude among Aes Sedai to speak of age, but . . . Reanne, apparently no Aes Sedai since the Breaking has lived as long as any of you in the Knitting Circle claim.” That was the odd name these Kin gave their ruling council. “In your own case, not by over a hundred years.” The red-belts gasped, going wide-eyed. A slender brown-eyed woman with pale honey hair gave a nervous giggle and instantly covered her mouth at Reanne’s whip-quick “Famelle!”

 

“Nynaeve, she must have slowed like everyone else. How old is she, to look fifty or sixty?”

“What are you talking about?” Without thinking Nynaeve noted the location in a corner of her mind; the seamstress’s work looked quite good, worth closer examination. “She probably doesn’t channel any more than she can help, afraid as she is of being mistaken for a sister. She wouldn’t have wanted her face too smooth, after all.”

“You never listened in class, did you?” Elayne murmured...

 

“We slow, Nynaeve. Somewhere between twenty and twenty-five, we begin aging more slowly. How much depends on how strong we are, but when doesn’t. Any woman who can channel does it. Takima said she thought it was the beginning of achieving the ageless look, though I don’t think anyone has ever reached that until they’ve worn the shawl at least a year or two, sometimes five or more. Think. You know any sister with gray hair is old, even if you aren’t supposed to mention it. So if Reanne slowed, and she must have, how old is she?”

 

The 'law' of the kin just said they couldn't channel while Aes Sedai were around, so they did channel but tried to channel as little as possible for fear of being caught. The ageless look comes from the oath rod.

[Al Jenn Mael]

Both of you are referencing something from the books. Aes Sedai believe the Kin almost give up channeling altogether--but they don't, they are just very cautious not to be caught channeling. Elayne speaks of how happy Reanne was to be free to channel, but she means channel openly. We know that they did channel with relative frequency--we see them do so in Ebou Dar--and certainly that was enough for them to fully slow.

 

Ahh, to slow with my reply. Correct. You should know. How does bonding affect male and female warders aging, I haven't found a reference skimming the books yet? I'm looking because I believe the books talk about how long Thomas and Verin have been bonded.

[Luckers]

Both of you are referencing something from the books. Aes Sedai believe the Kin almost give up channeling altogether--but they don't, they are just very cautious not to be caught channeling. Elayne speaks of how happy Reanne was to be free to channel, but she means channel openly. We know that they did channel with relative frequency--we see them do so in Ebou Dar--and certainly that was enough for them to fully slow.

 

Ahh, to slow with my reply. Correct. You should know. How does bonding affect male and female warders aging, I haven't found a reference skimming the books yet? I'm looking because I believe the books talk about how long Thomas and Verin have been bonded.

 

 

Bonding grants greater health and vitality, so warders remain physically fit into older age, but they do not slow, or live longer (outside the effects of their greater vitality, that is).

[Al Jenn Mael]

And since bonding wasn't around in the AoL and there isn't enough information as of yet about Asha'man bonding, it should be assumed those bonds work the same way. Poor wives. I'm curious if the bonding will have any effect on Min.

[CTKShadow]

I'd also like to add that we don't know for sure how much people slow if they start channeling late. Or rather, we don't know how much time they get. As I think I mentioned before (and has been mentioned by other posters), the only thing we know is that there is some correlation between strength in the power and the longevity gained. However, say you have someone who starts channeling at around 20, and someone who starts at around 70 (say like Sharina). Now, we actually have reason to suspect that Sharina is not actually slowing, but aging in reverse. For all we know, once the "slowing" starts in an old channeler they may actually end up with the same amount of time left as if they had started channeling in their 20's.

 

There are 3 scenarios:

1) It doesn't matter when you start channeling, once you've started, your lifespan is expanded to the same length, as determined by your strength in the power.

2) The length of time you gain from channeling is directly proportional to the time you have left if you didn't channel (so say that it multiplies your remaining time by x, where x is derived partially from your strength in the power).

3) The sooner you start channeling, the longer you will live, however, starting to channel later in life will still give you most of the years you would have gotten anyway (so if say channeling added 100 years for anyone, and then multiplied your remaining years by a factor, again, partially based on your strength). Basically somewhere in between 1 and 2.

 

If I can get a little math-y...

 

Let's assume that in these examples every person would live 80 years (without channeling), and their strength in the power is consistent (and average)

 

So let's take our 80-year old from above. If theory one is correct, then the formula to determine how long she lives might be something like: CL = L x 4 x (1+S) , Where CL=Channeling Lifespan, in years, L= non-channeling lifespan, in years, and S = Strength, as a percentile. So in this case, if the channeler in question would live 80 years, and her strength is average (50%), then we would have CL=80x4x(1+0.5) or CA=480 years. So that might be a little short of what an average channeler actually lives, but you get the idea.

 

It's also pretty simple if the time you gain left is directly proportional. Say scenario 2 is correct. Then we get: CL = (L-A) x 6 x (1+S)+ A , with A=Age. Now for our sample channeler above, if they start at the age 20, then they would look like this: CL= (80-20) x 6 x (1+0.5) + 20 , or CL= 560 years. On the other hand, if they started channeling at 50, then they would end up like so CL = (80-50) x 6 x (1+0.5) + 50, or CL = 330 years. If they started at 65, then they get CL= (80-65) x 6 x (1+0.5) + 65, or CL= 200 years

 

However, once you get into the third example, it's a bit more complicated. Unless there is a bell-curve involved (which would make for more confusion than I want to think about, since it would involve exponents thrown into the formula for 2), it would probably look something like this: CL = ((L-A) x 4 + 100)x (1+ S) + A. The difference here is that how long you have already lived plays a lesser role, having a lower coefficient, but there is a base amount added. So if taken as above for the ages 20, 50, and 65 we get:

CL = (60 x 4 + 100) x 1.5 + 20 = 530 years

CL = (30 x 4 + 100) x 1.5 + 50 = 380 years

CL = (15 x 4 + 100) x 1.5 + 65 = 305 years

 

Of course, all of the coefficients I've used (4's and 6's in the raw formulas above) are just speculation, numbers that I guesstimated. Also, for the last example, it could be something like CL = ((L-A) x 2 + 200)x (1+ S) + A, which would cause the lifespan of early channelers to be less but that of later channelers to be greater, causing the results to be almost the same regardless of age.

 

Don't get me started on the different possibilities of the binder, and how that affects lifespans, nor stilling. My personal belief is that the binder doubles the rate at which you age (which means the effects are permanent and not reversible by becoming unbound - sorry Cadsuane, and also that binding a very old channeler would not immediately kill them). I have no proof of this nor argument; it's just what would make the most sense to me. I digress.

 

Anyway, the point I was getting around to is thus: While option 2 (that channeling simply multiplies remaining time left) might be the most intuitive conclusion without evidence to the contrary, if it is true that Sharina is aging backwards it would suggest that either option 1 or 3 is correct. Option 2 would simply have her start aging much slower than she otherwise would have. To age in reverse shows that even aging slowly she has more time left than a slowly-aging body would support.

[Byzantine279]

CTK, that was explained in a thread, "The Slowing of Men", its on page 2 of this forum right now.

 

Basically, it doesn't matter when you start channeling, the longevity is the same.