Taim's 'Escape', Joiya's 'Lies' and the Borderland 'Aes Sedai'

[Luckers]

Taim's 'Escape', Joiya's 'Lies' and the Borderland 'Aes Sedai'

 

Ok, so apologies, this is a long one. Bear with me though, I think it's good.

 

Taim's 'Escape'

 

In The Shadow Rising Taim is mysteriously freed from his Aes Sedai captors in the village of Danhuir, just east of the Black Hills. Nothing is ever uttered about it other than that it was done in stealth during the night and that two Aes Sedai died in the attempt [tSR; 17, Deceptions]. Rand tells Taim that he heard that Taim was broken out by some of his followers [LoC; 11, Lessons and Teachers], but Taim avoids commenting on it.

 

The scarcity of information is strange in itself. In three thousand years no captured False Dragon later escaped. Egwene states that...

 

And the Warders would be ringing the courtyard against the possibility that someone might try to free the man to be gentled. The remnants of Guaire Amalasan’s armies had attempted it, at the end of what some called the War of the Second Dragon, just before Artur Hawkwing’s rise had given Tar Valon other things to worry it, and so had Raolin Darksbane’s followers, long years earlier. Whether Rand had any followers or not, she could not remember, but Warders remembered such things, and guarded against them.

 

[tSR; 22, The Price of the Ring

 

And Elaida supports their success.

 

"As for Taim...." The name burned her mouth; the only false Dragon ever to escape being gentled once in the hands of Aes Sedai.

 

[aCoS; Prologue, Lightnings]

 

So how did anyone manage to sneak past the gaiden, kill two Aes Sedai, and free Taim without raising an alarm? Why did the Aes Sedai reporting to Leane not speak of how this was managed? Why did the Aes Sedai not persue Taim? And what happened to these followers? For that matter, what happened to the Aes Sedai?

 

Joiya's 'Lies'

 

The Lie

 

In [tSR; 5, Questions] Joiya has this to say...

 

"The false Dragon, Mazrim Taim, who was captured in Saldaea, can channel with incredible strength. Perhaps as much as Rand al’Thor, or nearly so, if the reports can be believed. Before he can be brought to Tar Valon and gentled, Liandrin means to break him free. He will be proclaimed as the Dragon Reborn, his name given as Rand al’Thor, and then he will be set to destruction on such a scale as the world has not seen since the War of the Hundred Years."

 

Now obviously this is a lie. Liandrin followed through on Amico's confessions, not Joiya's, and of course the Black Ajah are Oath bound against revealing active BA plans (whether as a part of the Don't Betray The Great Lord Oath Verin dodged around, or one of the others).

 

Adeleas told Nynaeve in Elayne's hearing that the woman spilled out volumes about old plots of the Black Ajah, those she had not been involved in much more enthusiastically than those she was, yet even when they pressed her hard--Elayne could not quite make herself ask how they pressed--and she let slip the names of Darkfriends, most were certainly dead and none was a sister. Vandene said they were beginning to fear she had taken an Oath--the capital was audible--against betraying her cohorts.

 

[tPoD; 20, Into Andor]

 

Yet despite this it is quite strange that Joiya would fabricate an event that actually occurs. Taim being the first False Dragon to be freed once in Aes Sedai custody in three millennia is odd. Taim doing so after another person spoke of a plot to free him stretches incredulity, especially when you add the fact that someone went to efforts to keep Siuan unaware of Joiya's claims

 

Protecting the Lie

 

Moiraine strives to warn Siuan.

 

“You have until they are put on the ship, though I very much doubt either will change her tale now. My advice is to concentrate on Tanchico. If Joiya speaks truly, it will take Aes Sedai and Warders to guard Mazrim Taim, not just the three of you. I sent a warning to the Amyrlin by pigeon when I first heard Joiya’s story. In fact, I sent three pigeons, to make sure one reaches the Tower.”

 

[tSR; 6, Doorways]

 

Yet later Siuan states those pigeons never arrived.

 

One message from Moiraine that the al'Thor boy had Callandor, then nothing in the weeks since, although rumors in the streets were already beginning to get his name right. Still nothing.

 

[tSR; 47, The Truth of a Viewing]

 

Moiraine seems to think three pigeons ensure delivery of her message, so a simple accident seems unlikely, and therefore someone must have intercepted the messages. So the question is this, why would anyone seek to destroy lies and fabrications? Unless of course they aren't. I draw your attention to Ispan's tactic of dealing with the loyalty oath: "the woman spilled out volumes about old plots of the Black Ajah, those she had not been involved in much more enthusiastically than those she was."

 

I suggest Joiya was doing precisely the same thing. It is, in fact, a very Aes Sedai way around the Oath. Joiya was revealing an old plot that she'd heard and either thought thrown away, or else already achieved and therefore safe to reveal.

 

Who Freed Taim; How Did They Do It?

 

Of course it was already likely Aes Sedai freed Taim because of the issues with non-channelers achieving it, but I wanted to lay out the above as foundation for the next step--how it was achieved. I used to believe the Black Ajah had sent out a second group of Sisters to intercept Taim's captors and free him, but I no longer think that is the case. An open confrontation would have sent rumours charging of One Power battles, and there were none. From there Aes Sedai face the same issues in freeing Taim by stealth as anyone else did.

 

I suggest instead that all or most of the sisters sent after Taim were Black Ajah.

 

Is That Even Possible?

 

Only one in five sisters were Black, so it seems unlikely this could occur by chance, however in [aCoS; Prologue, Lightnings] Alviarin decides the ensure no Black Sisters are sent to the Black Tower. If Alviarin can influence the exclusion of sisters being selected for a team of 51 from a pool of 250, then I have no problems with the idea that she could influence the selection of 13.

 

The Timeline

 

It fits neatly--Anaiya says those sister were already in Saldaea by the time tGH began [tGH; 4, Summoned], so perfect timing for knowledge of it to filter through the Hearts and reach Joiya (or Liandrin if Joiya was telling the truth about over-hearing the knowledge from her). What is, perhaps, confusing is what the timing says about the purpose of this mission.

 

The Purpose

 

If, as Anaiya states, the Aes Sedai had already reached Saldaea at the beginning of tGH, then something very, very weird happened. Specifically six whole months pass. That's right, Anaiya states that the Aes Sedai should be in Saldaea during the first days of Amadaine, and Taim is taken in the last few day of Nesan. That's early June to late November that the Aes Sedai were in Saldaea, near Taim--and they achieve nothing. They weren't even the ones to take Taim down. I mean there is Aes Sedai ineffectiveness, and there is active deception.

 

I of course think that Taim is Taim, and was always a darkfriend, and therefore was ordered to become a False Dragon as an early defamation and chaos spreading tactic--indeed, one may notice the similarities between Joiya's 'lies' and the role Taim actually played if you look at him as an always-darkfriend. Under that plan the Black Aes Sedai would have been ordered to let him play his role, and only took him when forced too by Rand's sky-born theatrics.

 

However, since I don't want to turn this into a 'what is Taim' discussion, and undoubtedly the Moridinists and Turned-Taim's will see this as potential proof that their theory is incorrect I will point out that the mission could as easily just have been enacted to let a Lightfriend Taim work his own chaos as a False Dragon, and only after his capture was it decided to turn/ensoul him. It's even possible a similar plan was enacted with Logain before Cadsuane came out of hiding and took him down, only with things being more peaceful and Logain's larger fame they couldn't easily 'escape' him in order to turn him.

 

So, it doesn't matter what you think Taim is, what is important is do you buy my suggestion that the sisters sent to take him down were over-padded with Blacks commanded to thwart attempts to capture him in order to generate chaos and a general bad name for the Dragon, and that these women freed him of their own free will, and lied in their letter to Siuan about how he was freed by stealth (one notes that that chapter was entitled 'Deceptions) and that it was knowledge of this plan (which Joiya would see as completed and done with, and thus betrayable) that Joiya used in her 'fabrications'?

 

Because if you do, we can move forward.  ;D

 

What Happened After Taim Was Freed

 

What Happened To Taim

 

It's possible Taim did try to re-announce himself Dragon, and couldn't as Moiraine suggested he wouldn't be able to, but I suspect that was the only actual lie Joiya used. Irrespective we know Taim ended up with Rand.

 

What Happened To The Aes Sedai

 

Of course it’s possible they returned to the Tower, yet there is no mention, and given Elaida's fury about Taim that seems... odd. From there, the Tower was broken during that time. What do a cabal of Aes Sedai do in such a situation? Pretty much the same as what Verin and Alanna looked to do, what the Aes Sedai at the Silver Swan seem to be doing--they retreat, find a base, and look to learn more.

 

So they were on the Maradon Road when Taim 'escaped'? Where does an enterprising Aes Sedai head from there--that's right, you guessed it, the Borderlands where Aes Sedai are respected, and where there is turmoil which they could exploit to gain influence. Shortly after this time we get this...

 

"You hardly expected me to leave Coladara behind, Ethenielle," he said in soothing tones, "even if I could have kept the preparations from her." She had not; his favorite sister was Aes Sedai, and Kiruna had given him a deep fondness for the Tower. Ethenielle had not expected it, but she had hoped. "Coladara had visitors," he continued. "Seven of them. Bringing them along seemed prudent, under the circumstances. Fortunately, they require little convincing. None, in truth."

 

"The Light illumine and preserve our souls," Ethenielle breathed, and heard near echos from Serailla and Baldhere. "Eight sisters, Paitar? Eight?" The White Tower surely knew every move they intended, now.

 

"And I have five more," Tenobia put in as if announcing she had a new pair of slippers. "They found me just before I left Saldaea. By chance, I'm sure; they appeared as surprised as I was. Once they learned what I was doing--I still don't know how they did, but they did--once they learned, I was sure they'd go scurrying to find Memara." Her brows furrowed in a momentary glare. Elaida had miscalculated badly in sending a sister to try bullying Tenobia. "Instead," she finished, "Illeisien and the rest were more intent on secrecy than I."

 

[tPoD; Prologue, Deceptive Appearances]

 

If I'm correct about the freeing of Taim, and those Aes Sedai didn't return to the Tower, then they would almost certainly have split up--that many Aes Sedai together would attract too many eyes--and from there they would seek to get near power, influence events. Notice that Illeisien seems as bent on secrecy as Tenobia--that surely indicates a specific purpose. She has her own agenda which she is guarding from Elaida.

 

There is a problem with the numbers, however. Coladara was not part of the original group, which means one of the originals is missing. That actually makes sense--why lie to Siuan about two sisters dying and then only have to explain them all still being alive? I'd suggest two Lightbound Aes Sedai went with the original group, and had to be killed to cover tracks--in which case there is another random amongst the Borderlanders. If this is the case I'd suggest they'd be with the group that approached Coladara because that would mean the originals split 5/6, which makes sense.

 

But wait, this is all fairly circumstantial, right? What do I have other than the general location and a sense of what the Aes Sedai might do in their situations?

 

The Borderlander 'Aes Sedai'

 

The Borderlander Aes Sedai are often mentioned and never seen. There is something of a feeling of doom about them--just as there is about the eventual meeting between Rand and the Borderland rulers. Why, you ask? A combination of the following viewings.

 

1. The strongest things I see about [Perrin] are a wolf, and a broken crown, and trees flowering all around him. [TEOTW: 15, Strangers and Friends, 181]

 

2. "I saw an aura around you [Rand] in the throne room. Aes Sedai are going to hurt you. Women who can channel, anyway. It was all confused; I'm not sure about the Aes Sedai part. But it might happen more than once." [LOC: 41, A Threat, 532]

 

3. "Twice Perrin's going to have to be there, or you [Rand]...." "If he's not, something bad will happen to you." "Very bad." [LOC: 46, Beyond the Gate, 578-9]

 

4. "And there's something... dark... in the images I saw around Lord Davram. If he turns against you, or dies..." [COT: 24, A Strengthening Storm, 547]

 

The Broken Crown is the Crown of Saldaea. For Perrin (and Faile) to attain it, Davram and Tenobia need to die. From there, the first of the two times Perrin needed to be there for Rand involved Rand being hurt by Aes Sedai. It doesn't seem implausible to suggest the second might also give Min stated Rand might be hurt by Aes Sedai 'more than once'. Following that, consider circumstance; a meeting that has been building for five books is coming soon; bringing Tenobia and Bashere together, and thus putting them in a position to suffer the same fate. Meanwhiles, around the same time Perrin states: "He needed to seek out Rand. He could feel something tugging at him, pulling him. Rand needed him." in [tGS; 7, Leaving Malden].

 

The suggestion therefore is that the mysterious and ominously absent Aes Sedai with the Borderlanders will make a move on Rand during the meeting. In what results Tenobia and Davram will be killed, Rand will be hurt, and Perrin will save the day, gain the Broken Crown, and probably consolidate the Borderlander armies under him. But how could that many Black sisters have just stumbled together? The organisation of the Black Ajah essentially forbids it, and it can't be that Illesien and the others were ordered to seek out the Borderlander rulers--Tenobia states: "They found me just before I left Saldaea. By chance, I'm sure; they appeared as surprised as I was."

 

Two aberrantly large groups of blacks in the same area for no discernable purpose and not acting on orders? Intro Taim's cabal of Black Sisters.

 

Summary

 

This was a long one, I know. I considered breaking it in two--Freeing Taim and the Borderland Aes Sedai--but ultimately I think they sit better together. In any case the summary of my theories are as follows...

 

The Shadow wanted Taim free to cause havoc, for whatever reason, and so when Aes Sedai were sent to deal with him Alviarin made sure that they were mostly Blacks. These Blacks successfully stove off the capture of Taim for six months until he fell and they were forced to take him, and then they intentionally released him later, claiming he was freed.

 

Following this they broke in two groups and headed north, joining Paitar and Tenobia respectively. They now sit amongst Borderlanders waiting for the meeting with Rand, where they will act. Tenobia and Bashere will die in this attack, and Rand will be hurt, but Perrin will save the day.

 

So I guess what I'm saying is... yay Perrin?

 

[algspkr]

Interesting theory.  I am not sure I see Bashere dieing.  RJ said not everything would be wrapped up and I think that Tenobia dieing would be enough for the series in the fulfillment of that viewing.  Of course I like Bashere and do not want to see him die.

[Luckers]

That reminds me, the other thought that's been put out there is that Bashere's a darkfriend and turns on Rand. I don't like that theory.

[Duskfire]

Pretty good theory; I see no major holes in it. The main problem is that since this was prior to Alvarian being Keeper in theory she may not have had the power to place Black Ajah in such a position. However she may have, so who knows. Or Sheriam perhaps. In any case, its not that big a problem.

 

And I agree; no way is Bashere a darkfriend.

[Luckers]

Galina was the Head of the Red Ajah, and presumably it would be on her to organise Dragon-hunting expeditions. Or at the very least she would be able to influence it. And Alviarin had access to several Black Sitters to enact her power. Or, she could quite simply have ordered blacks to push to be on the mission--Aes Sedai who want the task are more likely to be given it than those who do not. *shrug*  :)

[MikeRiley]

Sometime after the wonder girls reach the White Tower (I'm not sure when, could be in TDR) Siuan has a scene where she mentions sending some Aes Sedai into the borderlands. This is after Mazrim Taim's capture. I've been assuming some of those Aes Sedai are still there. I think the scene was when Siuan was complaining about a lack of people to trust when she sent Egwene and co on their hunt. Might even be after Taim was freed.

 

It probably doesn't mean much. I haven't been able to relocate the scene.

 

I'd like to see Perrin get the Broken Crown this way. It would follow his character better to inherit a kingdom than to raise an old banner and attempt to carve one out himself (Manetheren), especially after giving up his claim on it.

[Luckers]

Could you be referring to this?

 

“It had to be some of his followers. Fools. Why won’t they know when they are beaten? Choose out a dozen reliable sisters, Leane . . . .” The Amyrlin grimaced. “Reliable,” she muttered. “If I knew who was more reliable than a silverpike, I’d not have the problems I do. Do the best you can, Leane. A dozen sisters. And five hundred of the guards. No, a full thousand.”

 

“Mother,” the Keeper said worriedly. “The Whitecloaks - ”

 

“ - would not try to cross the bridges if I left them unwatched entirely. They would be afraid of a trap. There is no telling what is going on up there, Leane. I want whoever I send to be ready for anything. And Leane . . . Mazrim Taim is to be gentled as soon as he is taken again.”

 

That's just after his freedom is learned. We don't know what happens to these sisters either... I was thinking maybe Taim freer's killed them--maybe thats where the random addition came from.

 

In any case I doubt they would be the Borderlander sisters. They would have gone after Taim, and what happened to the Guard?

[MikeRiley]

Yeah, that was the scene. I can't see 12 Aes Sedai and 1000 guards being taken out quietly though. Would the timing be right to suggest they're still marching through the borderlands somewhere?

[mikael]

Like it, but hurting Rand has started to feel repetetive, whats left to do to him really? Break his foot?

[Luckers]

Yeah, that was the scene. I can't see 12 Aes Sedai and 1000 guards being taken out quietly though. Would the timing be right to suggest they're still marching through the borderlands somewhere?

 

They didn't actually go to the borderlands, they went through the Black Hills. Presumably then they followed Taim south (Bashere implies he left an easily trackable path, and RJ actually stated it once) or were forestalled. I don't see them being quietly taken out either--though more so them during the breaking of the Tower than the original sisters--so I've no idea.

 

Like it, but hurting Rand has started to feel repetetive, whats left to do to him really? Break his foot?

 

It could show that he is dealing with it better now. No more 'box' talk.

[wipe]

Yeah, that was the scene. I can't see 12 Aes Sedai and 1000 guards being taken out quietly though. Would the timing be right to suggest they're still marching through the borderlands somewhere?

 

They didn't actually go to the borderlands, they went through the Black Hills. Presumably then they followed Taim south (Bashere implies he left an easily trackable path, and RJ actually stated it once) or were forestalled. I don't see them being quietly taken out either--though more so them during the breaking of the Tower than the original sisters--so I've no idea.

 

Like it, but hurting Rand has started to feel repetetive, whats left to do to him really? Break his foot?

 

It could show that he is dealing with it better now. No more 'box' talk.

 

Maybe they are the ones in caemlyn (silver swan)???? And the reason why they constantly change are that they are sending out "spies" to look in on Taim at the black tower, and that the guards are spread around Caemlyn, or have joined up with Elayne's guards. I've allways found it annoying that we know so little about who these aes sedai are. They can be blacks, neutral or one of the groups mentioned above, or something completely different. They are constantly mentioned though (for a long time) in the background, but we never learn anything useful about them or what they are doing. Probably just reaching, but they have been mentioned to much to be of no consequense...

 

Luckers- I appeal to your vast knowledge. What is the theory surrounding these aes sedai, and how do they fit into all this. They are probably debated to death somewhere, but I can't find it anywhere other than mentions like: they must be black; how weard this is, why don't Elayne just find out their motives and so on... They can't be the BUT, can they??? They ar mentioned a lot in the background, but I can't remember the book where they are first mentioned, but they have probably been discussed to much. Still I feel that they will somehow become more important- what other reason to keep mentioning them.

[csarmi]

Like it, but hurting Rand has started to feel repetetive, whats left to do to him really? Break his foot?

 

Simple. They will 13x13 Rand. Now that WILL hurt. Try to, at least. But I have the strange feeling that they'll succeed.

 

 

[OptimusPrime]

Like it, but hurting Rand has started to feel repetetive, whats left to do to him really? Break his foot?

 

The Warder bonds.

[Luckers]

Luckers- I appeal to your vast knowledge. What is the theory surrounding these aes sedai, and how do they fit into all this. They are probably debated to death somewhere, but I can't find it anywhere other than mentions like: they must be black; how weard this is, why don't Elayne just find out their motives and so on... They can't be the BUT, can they??? They ar mentioned a lot in the background, but I can't remember the book where they are first mentioned, but they have probably been discussed to much. Still I feel that they will somehow become more important- what other reason to keep mentioning them.

 

I just added this to the list of things I was looking at. I have some thoughts, but nothing cohesive yet, so I'll hang on to them for the moment.

 

 

[wipe]

Luckers- I appeal to your vast knowledge. What is the theory surrounding these aes sedai, and how do they fit into all this. They are probably debated to death somewhere, but I can't find it anywhere other than mentions like: they must be black; how weard this is, why don't Elayne just find out their motives and so on... They can't be the BUT, can they??? They ar mentioned a lot in the background, but I can't remember the book where they are first mentioned, but they have probably been discussed to much. Still I feel that they will somehow become more important- what other reason to keep mentioning them.

 

I just added this to the list of things I was looking at. I have some thoughts, but nothing cohesive yet, so I'll hang on to them for the moment.

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I will be looking forward to seeing what you think about this.

[Juggler]

I like that theory, makes a lot of sense. Perrin to lead the northerners to war. Matt to lead the southerners to war (the north and east / south and west) prophesy bit. with Rand leading the Aiel, and logain the ashaman (after dealing with Taim)

 

The position of Far madding could make Your theory very interesting. with Aes sedai with the borderlanders. Although I feel Fain will stick his oar in here as well. 13 Aes sedai, Rand, Fain, stedding if the sisters ARE all black - what about the possibility of trying to TURN rand - could that be the hurt? or severing him only have Nynaeve heal him.

 

[DocBean]

I've been onboard with this theory since I first heard it a few months ago; however, I do have one question.

 

How will the casual reader know that these 13 sisters are all black sisters, and how will it be explained how they came together?

Will a typical reader be able to make a connection to Taim?

Will a typical reader be able to understand why 13 sisters turned on Rand all of a sudden? Usually the reader isn't blindsided like that.

 

I can't picture a way to explain 13 black ajah controlling the Borderlanders.

A sister darkfriend meeting could do the trick, but that just doesn't seem like a good way to pull it off.

 

It's possible Demandred is pulling the strings with the Borderlanders, but I can't picture him marching around with an army for 6 books, in which time he could have been marshaling an army that could rival the Seanchan over in Shara.

[Sentinel78]

I see no problem with your logic Luckers.  It makes sense in a lot of ways. The problem I have with the theory is the anti-climactic nature, transparency and stupidity of it from the standpoint of the Borderlanders and the alleged Black sisters with them. 

 

In other words -- assume as you've suggested that the 13 Black Ajah sisters latch onto the Borderlanders and eventually convince the Borderlanders to head to the Guardian where they can channel but Rand can't. 

 

This just seems way too transparent.  Rand is fully aware of the danger, he knows that the Borderlanders are being incredibly vague and suspicious with their desire to meet with him, and he has his own group of female channelers to protect him if need be even in the off-chance he goes to the Guardian (granted, the 13 Aes Sedai with the Borderlanders have no way of knowing that).

 

My question is - how could the Borderlanders think Rand would be stupid enough to place himself at their mercy with no protection, when the meeting place is obviously designed to achieve this end?  Why would they go through all this effort when they can reasonably expect Rand to simply refuse or require that the Borderlanders meet with some type of emissary instead of Rand directly (Lan would have been perfect for this)?  Such a tactic would obviously have a small chance of succeeding, but is it worth moving a 200,000-strong army halfway across the world to achieve? 

 

A scenario that would make this less anti-climactic would be that the renegade Black Ajah that escaped the Tower purge flee to their Black sisters in Far Madding instead of the Black Tower.  They would then have more than enough force to take out Rand's female channeler protection (although again, there is no way that 13 Black sisters could have predicted this type of windfall).

 

How could Perrin possibly save the day in such a scenario?  If any wolves were with him scouting the meeting place, they might mention "Young Bull - there are many Aes Sedai down there, many, many many, much more than 13".

[Luckers]

You know what's funny... it never occured to me that the Aes Sedai manouvered the Borderlanders within the protection of the male Guardian of Far Madding, but left them still outside the female Guardian. That is... well, brilliant.

 

I'll take a look at your questions tomorrow tho. 2am and me need bed.

[Scaw]

I like this theory, but if I understand it correctly it is primarily based on location and timing and that is something of a weak point.

 

Firstly, can you connect a single name here?

Is there an Aes Sedai that is mentioned to be on the team that is supposed to take care of Taim and is later seen somewhere else?

 

Secondly, did you consider Traveling? How far is the knowledge of this spread when these sisters made their moves?

 

BTW, all this mention of loose Aes Sedai in the books kind of annoyed me too. Yes, there are Aes Sedai around and they do nothing, why tell us this so often? I always felt that these AS where a wildcard and could show up anywhere and do anything.

 

 

The thing I really like about this is Perrin's role. If he would play an important role with the Boarderlanders he would not be so... useless anymore.

[Sentinel78]

Secondly, did you consider Traveling? How far is the knowledge of this spread when these sisters made their moves?

 

The Borderlander meeting where they swear to find Rand and do "what must be done" occurs in the Prologue of Book 8, and Egwene rediscovers Traveling in Moghedien's presence late in Book 6 if I remember correctly.  Ethenielle's POV in the Book 8 Prologue suggests their meeting was the culmination of a relatively long correspondence, which suggests that the Aes Sedai probably did not have Traveling at that point.  However, you can't rule out the Forsaken teaching Traveling to some of the Black Ajah members, as was the case with Alviarin being taught by Mesaana. 

 

Still, if you do rule out Traveling, their respective locations in the Borderlands lends weight to Luckers' theory that they are the leftovers of the Black Ajah Taim-rescue squad, or the Aes Sedai that ran interference for Taim and aided his escape.  The numbers and their rough locations would add up anyway.

 

You know what's funny... it never occured to me that the Aes Sedai manouvered the Borderlanders within the protection of the male Guardian of Far Madding, but left them still outside the female Guardian. That is... well, brilliant.

 

Yeah this was an assumption I made when I read that part.  If I remember right, the Borderland army was camped outside the city, and Far Madding's rules against weapons would not allow an army to enter the city, which suggests they're probably in the saidin-specific restriction area.

 

You know, this strategy might not even be stupid on the part of the 13 Aes Sedai with the Borderlanders because, even if Rand knew about the Guardian, they might expect he DIDN'T know that the saidin-block radius extends further out than the saidar-block radius.  It's unclear whether this is common knowledge, and Rand only appears to know about this from his trip there previously.

 

The fact that Rand does actually have this knowledge mitigates their advantage somewhat, but Rand's been known to spring traps on purpose before to his detriment (i.e., meeting with Semi masquerading as Tuon).

 

At some point I hope the wolves' ability to see channelers comes into play, and this could be a good place for it.  I bet wolves could even see a Forsaken that masked their ability to channel.

[Luckers]

At some point I hope the wolves' ability to see channelers comes into play

 

I read that as: "At some point I really hope the Wolves ability to channel comes into play'.  :o

 

Secondly, did you consider Traveling? How far is the knowledge of this spread when these sisters made their moves?

 

It cannot be the result of Travelling. At this point in the series only the Rebels have it, and whilst upwards of twenty sisters might be gone at any one time, they all return. The Rebels were watching that, for all the gestures at privacy, out of the fear of sisters returning to Elaida.

 

In any case, the point was that these women, who if you by the logic are gonna do something pretty nasty, are an aberation. That many blacks gathered together casually is essentially forbidden by the structuring of the the Black Ajah itself, and therefore they were organised--but Tenobia makes clear they weren't organised to be sent after the Borderlanders.

 

From there, yes, the location does come into effect. If you buy my logic an organised group of blacks were in that area, and the simplest explanation is that both groups are one and the same.

 

This just seems way too transparent.  Rand is fully aware of the danger, he knows that the Borderlanders are being incredibly vague and suspicious with their desire to meet with him, and he has his own group of female channelers to protect him if need be even in the off-chance he goes to the Guardian (granted, the 13 Aes Sedai with the Borderlanders have no way of knowing that).

 

Perhaps. On the other hand they could easily have intended to study Rand before revealing themselves--they certainly hid themselves when Elayne was around.

 

I don't see any reason Rand would have seen them in the subtefuge, and not the Borderlanders--much as he did. That gives them an advantage.

[Terez]

You know what's funny... it never occured to me that the Aes Sedai manouvered the Borderlanders within the protection of the male Guardian of Far Madding, but left them still outside the female Guardian. That is... well, brilliant.

 

I assumed this as soon as I heard they were in Far Madding.  In fact, I assumed that something nefarious would come of that area between the borders as soon as it was introduced.  This does seem to be the best chance for the 13x13 to come into play, since the Black Tower action is likely to be after Rand's death with him not present.  We know that Rand has to deal with the Borderlanders in TOM, because the prophecies say he personally will bind the north to the east, and though he need not be the one to make the two as one, the one has to happen before the other. 

 

We have assumed at Theoryland for a long time that the sisters with the Borderlanders are either Siuan's 12 (+Coladara=13) or the ones Alviarin sent after Taim (the leash that Memara was not supposed to see).  In any case, it's clear that they had nothing to do with the Borderlanders' decision to leave, though Memara might possibly have had something to do with it (in a manipulative sort of way, of course).

[Durinax]

You know what's funny... it never occured to me that the Aes Sedai manouvered the Borderlanders within the protection of the male Guardian of Far Madding, but left them still outside the female Guardian. That is... well, brilliant.

 

I assumed this as soon as I heard they were in Far Madding.  In fact, I assumed that something nefarious would come of that area between the borders as soon as it was introduced.  This does seem to be the best chance for the 13x13 to come into play, since the Black Tower action is likely to be after Rand's death with him not present.  We know that Rand has to deal with the Borderlanders in TOM, because the prophecies say he personally will bind the north to the east, and though he need not be the one to make the two as one, the one has to happen before the other. 

 

We have assumed at Theoryland for a long time that the sisters with the Borderlanders are either Siuan's 12 (+Coladara=13) or the ones Alviarin sent after Taim (the leash that Memara was not supposed to see).  In any case, it's clear that they had nothing to do with the Borderlanders' decision to leave, though Memara might possibly have had something to do with it (in a manipulative sort of way, of course).

Which forssaken loved to fight with large armies? Demandred?

[farthammer]

I don't think they even had a choice in the matter, the saidar free zone is not that big and soldiers take up a lot of room and produce a ton of waste.