The Return of the Dark Rand

[Duskfire]

He's not really stupid bad, sometimes I think he's the only sane character, everyone else seems to be stupid.

 

What? So ignoring Taim, wanting to break his deal with the Sea Folk, getting angry at the Aiel for not doing a good enough job in Arad Doman, wanting to go to the Cleansing with just him and Nynaeve, treating everyone around him like pieces of crap; these are examples where other characters have argued against him. And those are just a few. Not sure how you can claim that comment at all. He has clearly been acting foolish for a good amount of the last couple of books, and thats what he realised at the end of TGS.

 

Rand is an awesome character, but I think people tend to go a bit overboard on ignoring his faults. DarkRand while interesting would have ruined everything. People should be glad that there were characters like Cadsuane and the Wise Ones to combat Darkrand because otherwise he would have been doomed.

[PatsNats28]

To be honest, I like Dark Rand, just not the Rand of tGS. As others have said, the Rand of tFoH will do well.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Don't forget that the plot of TGS and ToM overlap somewhat, so while we may not see DarkRand post VoG, we probably will still see him in ToM.

 

That way, you get your fix, and he is (in the current timeline) fixed too!

 

Everybody wins.

 

The timelines that are overlaping are that of Mat, Perrin and Elyane etc...

 

WE wont see Dark Rand, we will only be seeing these characters, the closest we would get is Perrin, but Perrin doesnt actaully meet Rand before VoG (its yet to happen).

 

SO no, we wont be actually seeing any Dark Rand, there is no need to go back in Rand's plotline, it would be a waste of time. It will be a small bit of Perrin, Mat and Elyane. Probably some other minor characters aswell, but none that have been in contact with Dark Rand.

[OptimusPrime]

If he does not show that dark side of his, it doesn't mean he's fixed. I think it'll show up, but if it doesn't I wouldn't call it cheap. Rand still has to learn to be human again.

 

You're confusing reintegration with him rediscovering his humanity.

 

Ask members of, say, Das Reich, who'd almost certainly have PTSD like other troops but also the ruthless breakdown of conventional morality deliberately engineered by the Waffen SS, how easy it was for them to reenter German or Austrian society after the War.

 

Dark Rand, the Rand of most of TGS, by contrast, was the final culmination of Rand's building *insanity* - which is fairly well demonstrated by his near decision to obliterate existence and unravel time. That isn't the action of an inhuman person, it's the action of a *CRAZY* one.

 

His reintegration removed his latent insanity. Does that mean he'll be nice? No, just recall what Lanfear and Elan Morin have said - along with others of the Chosen - about LTT's arrogance. Lews Therin was never an *easy* person to get along with, and I doubt a reintegrated Rand is going to stop being a military warlord.

 

But, Dark Rand was the purest form of his insanity, and if it returns, it means we're all going kablammo.

 

I agree with most of this. The integration with Lews Therin is seperate from Dark Rand. Dark Rand was Rand acting like Moridin, not Lews Therin, it was because of the connection/merge. In effect, remembering Lews Therins life helped Rand stop acting like Moridin all the time. The thing is, the link is still there and still getting stronger it seems, and that means Rand and Moridin are going to continue to merge, so I do think there is a good chance that Dark Rand may return, but I think not on the same scale because of the integration. I think Rand will feel like he will be in control again, but I also think that in some instances there may be instinctive reactions that will resemble Moridin when, for example, Rand next feels pain or gets very angry, in some situations. I also wouldnt be surprised if Rand did hear the voice again in his final moments when he sacrifices himself.

 

I wonder if Rands addiction to channeling has anything to do with "Lews Therin" in his head.

[Owayn The Traveller]

That's a very interesting idea there. Never really thought of it that way. Do you think that Moridin's personalty will be affected more now by Rand after his epiphany on Dragonmount?

[aunt_pol]

Be interesting to see if Mat and Perrin had any kaleidoscopic awareness of the whole TP moment. They will surely know something of VOG, all the Ashaman will have been leapin' out of their skins.

[aggs4life]

:o

 

Wait, I know this is a little off topic, but am I understanding correctly that we are not going to be seeing Rand at all in ToM?!?!?!

 

I truly hope that is not the case.  One thing I loved about tGS is that we got more focus back on Rand, like we saw in the first 6 books or so (which to me was a reason those 6 were considerably better than the later ones excluding book 9).  That would suck big time.  How are we going to deal with the Black Tower and not have Rand be a part of it??

[aunt_pol]

Calm yourself, chicken. Rand will be in ToM: Brandon said so.

 

But obv, there's a bit of chronological catching up to do with Perrin and Mat, and Elayne's interminable pregnancy etc. So I'd say Rand will show up around chapter 15/20?

[OptimusPrime]

That's a very interesting idea there. Never really thought of it that way. Do you think that Moridin's personalty will be affected more now by Rand after his epiphany on Dragonmount?

 

Im not sure, I cant imagine what situations Moridin might act like Rand in. I do think he looked troubled when he met with Graendal, and the feeling tired thing in the dream was odd, but I really hope he snaps out of it. And yet I do think he will end up helping Rand in some way beyond what has already happened.

 

If Moridin did help Rand, although I really hope he doesnt but I can see it happening, I might not mind something like... Rand figures out some stuff about the connection to Moridin, discovers they can send thoughts across. Actually discovers hindsight and realizes thats what Moridin did when he thought about the Creator being a gardener. Rand decides Moridin is going to hear Lews Therins voice, starts sending thoughts across about the Age of Legends and memories of the EotW prologue when they met, yada yada.  Moridin, currently in Rand-I-Cant-Put-2-And-2-Together mode, actually believes he is hearing Lews Therin, who plagues him with thoughts about helping Rand kill the Dark One, Moridin thinks "Oh Im hearing the voice because Rand does and the link makes us share this stuff." Then they meet, Rand pretending not to know anything, acts all dumb when Moridin mentions hearing the voice, and says "I used to think I heard his voice, but I realized those thoughts were my own all along." Moridins all like "Yeah but, erm... well, I er... I hate the Creator! But well... if the voice was me, and Im as gullable as you usually are... well, maybe those thoughts about helping you were my own too." And then Rand says "Tell me where Demandred is" and does his concentrating that bends the Pattern to his will like he did to the young boy in TGS, and they stare at each other for what feels like ages, Rand starts embracing saidin so his face flashes in Moridins eyes, and Moridin gives in and tells him. Rand says the next time they meet will be the last this turning of the Wheel, starts to turn, and then Moridins like "Not so fast pal" and instigates the "move a hairswidth and they touch" thing that may or may not result in the bodyswap. "Haha, you go see Demandred, al'Thor, while I go and kill some Aes Sedai wearing your face!" and Rands like "Yeah crack on pal theyve pissed me off enough, I'll be in T'A'R hosting a Chosen meeting, and if you storm it they'll think you're me and kill you."

[aunt_pol]

Riiiiight...!

 

So, you mentioned Moridin's tiredness there... what's the bets Rand eats a monster dinner and sleeps for about a week after VoG?

[Majsju]

 

His reintegration removed his latent insanity. Does that mean he'll be nice? No, just recall what Lanfear and Elan Morin have said - along with others of the Chosen - about LTT's arrogance. Lews Therin was never an *easy* person to get along with, and I doubt a reintegrated Rand is going to stop being a military warlord.

 

 

 

Of course, Rand is not LTT. This is something RJ pointed out about reincarnation in his universe: same soul, different personality.

 

LTT was born and raised during the AOL. He was a very accomplished person long before the Bore was even drilled. Looking at the bits and bobs of info in the books, he was among the best in pretty much anything he did. That kind of life would make it extremely hard for anyone to not become an arrogant schmuck.

 

Rand on the other hand comes from a very humble background. It is not that long ago his main goal in life was to marry Egwene and settle down breeding sheep and grow some tobacco.

 

Of course, that does in no way mean Rand has much of a chance becoming  goodygoody-person. Instead of LTTs arrogace Rand has the Two Rivers stubborness, and they are probably about equally difficult to deal with. Rand also has quite a bit of PTSD to deal with, and that will not go away even if he  has regained most of his sanity. But, these issues are his own, not something borrowed from LTT.

[Owayn The Traveller]

That's a very interesting idea there. Never really thought of it that way. Do you think that Moridin's personalty will be affected more now by Rand after his epiphany on Dragonmount?

 

Im not sure, I cant imagine what situations Moridin might act like Rand in. I do think he looked troubled when he met with Graendal, and the feeling tired thing in the dream was odd, but I really hope he snaps out of it. And yet I do think he will end up helping Rand in some way beyond what has already happened.

 

If Moridin did help Rand, although I really hope he doesnt but I can see it happening, I might not mind something like... Rand figures out some stuff about the connection to Moridin, discovers they can send thoughts across. Actually discovers hindsight and realizes thats what Moridin did when he thought about the Creator being a gardener. Rand decides Moridin is going to hear Lews Therins voice, starts sending thoughts across about the Age of Legends and memories of the EotW prologue when they met, yada yada.  Moridin, currently in Rand-I-Cant-Put-2-And-2-Together mode, actually believes he is hearing Lews Therin, who plagues him with thoughts about helping Rand kill the Dark One, Moridin thinks "Oh Im hearing the voice because Rand does and the link makes us share this stuff." Then they meet, Rand pretending not to know anything, acts all dumb when Moridin mentions hearing the voice, and says "I used to think I heard his voice, but I realized those thoughts were my own all along." Moridins all like "Yeah but, erm... well, I er... I hate the Creator! But well... if the voice was me, and Im as gullable as you usually are... well, maybe those thoughts about helping you were my own too." And then Rand says "Tell me where Demandred is" and does his concentrating that bends the Pattern to his will like he did to the young boy in TGS, and they stare at each other for what feels like ages, Rand starts embracing saidin so his face flashes in Moridins eyes, and Moridin gives in and tells him. Rand says the next time they meet will be the last this turning of the Wheel, starts to turn, and then Moridins like "Not so fast pal" and instigates the "move a hairswidth and they touch" thing that may or may not result in the bodyswap. "Haha, you go see Demandred, al'Thor, while I go and kill some Aes Sedai wearing your face!" and Rands like "Yeah crack on pal theyve pissed me off enough, I'll be in T'A'R hosting a Chosen meeting, and if you storm it they'll think you're me and kill you."

 

Love it Drekka. You sure you haven't got a beta copy of the book?