In the next turning of the wheel more people will join the dark lord

[navahgar]

It appears that almost everyone agrees that Ishamael is correct, and that there have been many previous turnings of the wheel and will be many subsequent cycles where the same battle rages.  Personally, I am not convinced of this, but for the sake of argument let's assume that it's true.  My question here is, what about the balefiring?  If I recall correctly, so far Belal, Rahvin, Semirhage and (probably) Graendal (the "Lost Four") have all been balefired out of the pattern.  Does this mean that they will not be around for all of the subsequent turnings?  If it does, then who replaces them?  Are there any important figures that can't be replaced?  What if Ishamael or Lanfear or Demandred were balefired?  What about Rand or Mat or Perrin?  If the wheel has made any significant number of turns (and if we are to believe the musings of Ishamael, it has made many, many turns) how is it that none of the main figures have ever been balefired?  Or have they?  Presumably Ishamael and the Dragon have been constant, but are all of the other figures merely fleeting players that stay around for a few turnings before being balefired out of reality?  In this current turning four of the most powerful dark channellers have been balefired so far (interestingly, I can't recall any of the major, or even more than minor, good characters being balefired).  Counting back only a few dozen turnings, that would mean hundreds of powerful dark souls have been burned out of the pattern.  Don't underestimate the force of that previous sentence, when I say powerful dark souls, I mean people whose impact on the wheel is equivalent to any of the heroes of the horn, at least for the short time they are in existence. 

 

In this turning of the wheel, there are not many people who are on the same power level as the Lost Four.  Assuming that a similar number of people are always present during each turning of the wheel, the loss of the Lost Four must be in some way counterbalanced before the next turning (the alternative is the eventual dwindling of powerful dark souls to nought).  This could only happen if souls that are weaker in power than the Lost Four somehow gain in power by the next turning of the wheel.  Maybe the pattern counterbalances the loss of the Lost Fours power by 'promoting' others in subsequent lives.  If this is the case, is there some preordained rule that dictates that certain souls must be evil, and others good, for the pattern to know which ones to 'promote'?  I think there must be some identity to the souls between births, because at the very least the Dragon and Ishamael must be born in their good and evil alignments, respectively, for the battle to truly be said to be cyclical.  If that is the case, and if it is also the case that some meaningless, powerless, taverenless peasant can choose to be good or evil each time, then there must be some power/influence threshold above which the soul is preordained to be aligned with one specific side (good or evil).  Let us say that any soul that is preordained to be aligned with one side is in a 'fixed state'.  Souls must be being 'promoted' from a state of free choice, through that threshold, to a fixed state.  If you think about it for a few minutes, this system implies that, either the threshold is very low (which would then have a great impact on the level of free will in the world), or some souls that are important for the good guys in this turning, will be evil in the next turning.  It could be that Narishma, or Juilin, or maybe even Moiraine or Siuan will be darkfriends, dreadlords, or forsaken in a subsequent turning of the wheel.  Conversely, any and all of the forsaken (with the possible exception of Ishamael) could have been important figures for the light in previous turnings.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure that there have been many previous turnings of the wheel, or that there will be many subsequent turnings, at least not in the largely cyclical way that many others seem to think.  However, if it is true, then the existence of balefire means that Moiraine may very well become a Semirhage in a future turning of the wheel.

[Luckers]

People that are balefired can be reborn. They just can't be tranmigrated.

[Duskfire]

There won't be another turning of the Wheel anyway. This will be the last :P

[navahgar]

People that are balefired can be reborn. They just can't be tranmigrated.

 

Really???  What was that whole business about threads being burned out of the pattern?

[MikeRiley]

Not burned out, burned back. The example given in the books is a thread in a weave burning away. The strength of the fire on the thread is dependent on the strength of the balefire. Once that fire does burn out, the rest of the thread is still there. Just everything the burned away portion did within the pattern has been technically erased.

[Luckers]

Indeed. And RJ confirmed it.

[Fains nose]

For some reason im 100% certain that the Dark One will be killed forever this time, i have since i first read the series. It sort of frustrates me that people believe the wheel will just continue busines as usual and this will all happen again when the third age comes again.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

There won't be another turning of the Wheel anyway. This will be the last :P

 

Doubtful. One of Ishamaels main issues is that the Light winning means the Wheel continues to turn, whereas the DO winning means the Wheel and Pattern will be destroyed, ending the repetition. If the Light winning means the Wheel will stop turning I think we couldn't even blink fast enough to see Ishamael running to replace Rand as Champion of the Light.

[DocBean]

For some reason im 100% certain that the Dark One will be killed forever this time, i have since i first read the series. It sort of frustrates me that people believe the wheel will just continue busines as usual and this will all happen again when the third age comes again.

 

The people that believe the wheel will keep turning don't also believe the dark one will be killed.

 

If the Dark One is killed, then I believe that will end all things. Bad News for Randland.

 

However, I can see a possibility for this to happen, and for the wheel to keep spinning even if the Dark One is killed.

Rand or Fain becomes the new Dark One... wheel keeps on spinning.

 

 

I believe with Jordan's Wheel world is there is no possible way for the Dark One to die, because every age is destined to repeat itself.

That's the nature of the wheel. After 7 ages then it does the same thing over and over again. So unless this is the first spinning, then it's destined to repeat itself.

And since it's never come to an end before, it never will.

 

 

[Nightstrike]

Noone within the Wheel can kill the DO. Just see what happened at the cleansing. That was nothing. The taint on saidin was nothing compared with all of the DO.

[FarShainMael]

Perhaps It could be persuaded to self-destruct.

 

[Sentinel78]

But.... how do you kill that which has no life?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu16eUQwCWU

[Solmyr]

There won't be another turning of the Wheel anyway. This will be the last :P

 

Doubtful. One of Ishamaels main issues is that the Light winning means the Wheel continues to turn, whereas the DO winning means the Wheel and Pattern will be destroyed, ending the repetition. If the Light winning means the Wheel will stop turning I think we couldn't even blink fast enough to see Ishamael running to replace Rand as Champion of the Light.

And maybe thats exactly what will happen. Who says Ishamael has it all correct? If he is proven wrong he may well switch sides ... providing he's still sane enough to comprehend it.