what was demandred's business in the south?

[thevillagecouncil]

i used to think that Demandred was based in the borderlands based on all the evidence pointing towards northland culture and facial features. However, i'm re-reading Lord of Chaos and I noticed a small bit that really confused me. The following is a conversation between Sammael and Graendal. Sammael is talking.

 

He cut in sharply. "You deliver a message to Demandred from me. Tell him I know what he is up to." Events to the south had Demandred's mark all over them. Demandred had always liked using proxies. "Tell him to be careful. I won't have him or his friends interfering in my plans." Perhaps he could redirect al'Thor's attention there; that would likely put an end to him. If other means did not work. "So long as they steer clear of me, his lackeys can carve out what he wants, but they will steer clear or he will answer for it."

 

This brings up an interesting thought. Graendal is positioned in arad doman, and sammael in illian. From his conversation, he says to the south meaning demandred has business in Tarabon, Amadicia, or Ghealdan. Sammael says as long as they steer clear, suggesting that they are relatively close to illian. The biggest things going on in that region are the Seanchan and the whitecloaks. We know demandred is not involved with the seanchan because otherwise he would know the location of semirhage who was heavily involved with them. So My guess is that Demandred has some dappling in the whitecloaks and Sammael wants him to keep clear of Illian.

 

any thoughts on this?

[aunt_pol]

Well there's been so much concentrated badness in the Whitecloaks - they dealt with FAIN, for goodness' sake - that I'd always assumed at least one of the Forsaken was taking a personal interest. A big organised army like that would seem v attractive to someone in need of an army.

[MikeRiley]

I think it's is possible he was with the whitecloaks but they've recently gotten a new leader and he would not have allowed that to happen. I like to think we can consider the whitecloaks as a force for good in the last two books under Galad's rule. There was a forsaken that was controlling the whitecloaks - Ishamael. He had Jaichim sent out to stir trouble with a legion of them.

[StefanR]

I think he's responsible for Masema, but I'll explain more in a later post

[Suttree]

Can't remember if we ever have found out who appeared to Masema as the Dragon Reborn. Dragonsworn caused plenty of chaos and then I know it was later but there was the kill Perrin order from one of the Chosen.

[Ozzie_aiel]

I still say hes with the borderlanders in the south, using the kandori quenn as a proxy. Demandred is a general, why wouldn't he want a lage army of veterans like the borderlanders to play with, and as the sword-bearer of Kandor, he can

[Suttree]

I still say hes with the borderlanders in the south, using the kandori quenn as a proxy. Demandred is a general, why wouldn't he want a lage army of veterans like the borderlanders to play with, and as the sword-bearer of Kandor, he can

 

Was the borderland army already in the south as of LoC? What would the borderlanders be "carving" out?

[Ozzie_aiel]

I'm not sure, but if Demandred was working through the Murandy king, would he have let the Aes Sedai go through without at least talking to some of the BA, or let the borderlanders come anywhere near his empire?

[mossman87]

I'm not sure, but if Demandred was working through the Murandy king, would he have let the Aes Sedai go through without at least talking to some of the BA, or let the borderlanders come anywhere near his empire?

 

Brandon's twitter definitely makes me feel Roedran the most now.  This isn't a theory or anything but the few notes on the King would be considered clues by Brandon, sooo..:

 

Danelle reports to Elaida that Mattin Stepaneos has agreed while Roedran, Tylin and Alliandre are still considering. (LoC,Ch7)

Roedran hires Talmanes and the Band of the Red Hand to stay in Murandy to help him consolidate the kingdom. (TPoD,Ch18)

King Roedran builds an army in Lugard. (WH,Ch9)

The Band of the Red Hand finishes its commission with King Roedran and he pays them a year's salary. (KoD,Ch25)

King Roedran is so impressed with Fog and Steel by Madoc Comadrin that he has two copies printed. (KoD,Ch26)

 

TFoH,Ch11 - Roedran is king of Murandy. His seat of government is Lugard.

TPoD,Ch18 - He is said to be so dissolute he makes Mat look wholesome.

WH,Ch9 - Halwin Norry reports to Elayne that King Roedran is building an army in Lugard. Elayne already knows this from Egwene.

WH,Ch32 - While Rand listens in The Golden Wheel, a Far Madding trader tries to convince Master Azereos that Roedran building his army has Murandy too unsettled for him to move his trade to Lugard.

**CoT,Ch14 Reene Harfor identifies a spy in the Royal Palace who reports to King Roedran.

TGS,Ch20 Talmanes has a fancy pipe, a gift from King Roedran, but the Two Rivers tabac is all gone.

 

A few of those are interesting if he is the King, or the King's a proxy.  I found the starred one interesting because wasn't Demandred spying in the Palace too?

[aunt_pol]

Fain's from Lugard too... I wonder if Dem could have been involved with pushing him into the deep end?

[The Fisher King]

Demandred = White Cloaks. It is Known.

 

Anyone that still doesn't understand the context of the ''To the South'' comment, well, all I can do is shake my head, lol. Jordan was clear as good glass with that remark in what he was trying to tell us.

 

 

Fish

[McCBass]

Do You have a quote for that Fish?  I would be interested to see it.  It does make sense that he would be controlling the Whitecloaks, bu thow now that Galad is Lord Captain Commander?

[McCBass]

Unless...DEMANDRED=BYAR???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StefanR]

Unless...DEMANDRED=BYAR???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

We haven't seen who he's posing as before TGS, if at all

[aunt_pol]

You have the Asunawa situation going on there too. Seems like the

Whitecloaks are headed for some major internal strife.

 

Sorry, kind of OT there. Once Dem produces something jawdropping,

I will forgive him for hiding for 12 books.

[ROB_88]

Demandred = White Cloaks. It is Known.

 

Anyone that still doesn't understand the context of the ''To the South'' comment, well, all I can do is shake my head, lol. Jordan was clear as good glass with that remark in what he was trying to tell us.

 

 

Fish

 

really? you think it can only be the whitecloaks?!

when i first read the "to the south" remark i instantly figured he's responsible for the Prophet.

 

to me, Masema seems like a much more plausible target for Demandreds work

[Reaver1024]

The 'south' is South of Arad Doman, meaning Tanchico etc.

 

So seeing as the Whitecloaks are there at that time, creating quite a stir,it fits perfectly.