Eelfinn negotiations

[Lambada]

So we all know how sly the Eelfinn are when it comes to negotiations.

 

My question is this

 

If the a Seafolk person went to negotiate with the Eelfinn, who would come out the victor?

 

I honestly have no idea, they are both very fierce negotiators. (Oh, and the Grey Ajah also negotiators, would not stand a chance).

[DocBean]

So we all know how sly the Eelfinn are when it comes to negotiations.

 

My question is this

 

If the a Seafolk person went to negotiate with the Eelfinn, who would come out the victor?

 

I honestly have no idea, they are both very fierce negotiators. (Oh, and the Grey Ajah also negotiators, would not stand a chance).

 

not the victors.

The Eelfinn like to root around in your head, and keep an eye on you, to eat up your experiences.

So they're always going to get theirs.

and they don't seem to bargain, they just accept, and twist what you said, however they want to.

 

I believe Mat is the only one that ended up ahead in bargaining with them.

When the doorway was burned by Moraine and Lanfear, then their connection to him was snapped.

Like Moiraine's connection to Lan. Safe as long as the doorway was intact, burnt up when the doorway burned.

(unless I'm mixing the doorways up again)

So they're not getting to enjoy his experiences and keep an eye on him like he thinks they are.

 

 

 

 

 

[DemandredFO]

I have really no proof but I'm still one of those that think Lanfear visited the finns in the AOL.

[Lambada]

not the victors.

The Eelfinn like to root around in your head, and keep an eye on you, to eat up your experiences.

So they're always going to get theirs.

and they don't seem to bargain, they just accept, and twist what you said, however they want to.

 

I believe Mat is the only one that ended up ahead in bargaining with them.

When the doorway was burned by Moraine and Lanfear, then their connection to him was snapped.

Like Moiraine's connection to Lan. Safe as long as the doorway was intact, burnt up when the doorway burned.

(unless I'm mixing the doorways up again)

So they're not getting to enjoy his experiences and keep an eye on him like he thinks they are.

I'd have to disagree here.

They would take memories anyway. But they tried to take Mat's life, and it seems to me that this is the standard price, if you do not negotiate one with them. They give you what you asked for, but in return you are meant to offer an exchange of some kind. Matt didn't so the default price was death.

 

It seems clear to me from Matts encounter, that it is always in the form of a negotiation. Matt was just very very bad at it.

[Demiandre]

Why do so many WoT reader write Mat with 2 "t"? I can't understand...

 

First, f you want to negociate with them, you have to speak the old tongue fluently, because you will maybe not understand the translator.

 

 

Then, I think that whatever you ask, if you don't specify somewhere "going out and alive", you will either end up trapped in Finnland (probably what happened to Moiraine, if she got her wishes. Or it is the destruction of the doorway that caused her trapping), or dead. They offer you what you ask, but what you wish is not always what you will receive. And the Eelfinn are masters in that game.

 

So you technically have only two wishes. And the Grey or Atha'an Miere won't have a chance to have a good bargain, because it's a one shot wish. You can't "bargain" stricto sensu , which is their "skill" normally.

 

So only luck and cheating can save you, I'd say

[Lambada]

Why do so many WoT reader write Mat with 2 "t"? I can't understand...

Some good points in the rest of your post, but with the issue I've quoted it's probably because Matt is short for Matthew and is far more common - I've only ever seen 'Mat' as a name in WoT. Never in real life.

[Demiandre]

By being uncommon, it should be easier to remember... but in France, we have both Mathieu and Matthieu. Which give Mat and Matt.

 

We can spell Ta'veren, Tel'Aran'Rhiod, Elan Morin Tedronai, Barid Bel Medar without a secobd thought, but some stumble on three letters... A shame I'd say

 

(Btw, I try to remember what is the old tongue word for Weaving of the Moment, or something like that. It begins with "T" and ends with "len", IIRC. With two " ' " in between. Something like Tamal'Airen'Mailen...

 

Thanks for finding my post good pointing!^^

[Lambada]

By being uncommon, it should be easier to remember... but in France, we have both Mathieu and Matthieu. Which give Mat and Matt.

 

We can spell Ta'veren, Tel'Aran'Rhiod, Elan Morin Tedronai, Barid Bel Medar without a secobd thought, but some stumble on three letters... A shame I'd say

But none of those words are similar to any words in the English language, hence there is nothing to get confused about. Whereas as Mat is common in French you find it easier to remember than English speaking people do.

[DocBean]

Why do so many WoT reader write Mat with 2 "t"? I can't understand...

Some good points in the rest of your post, but with the issue I've quoted it's probably because Matt is short for Matthew and is far more common - I've only ever seen 'Mat' as a name in WoT. Never in real life.

 

I swear I saw his name spelt as Mattrim in the earlier books.

but I'm probably wrong.

 

I admit to being one of the ones who use Matt from time to time.

I'm not sure why, I think because in my head I hear it with 2 Ts.

[DocBean]

I'd have to disagree here.

They would take memories anyway. But they tried to take Mat's life, and it seems to me that this is the standard price, if you do not negotiate one with them. They give you what you asked for, but in return you are meant to offer an exchange of some kind. Matt didn't so the default price was death.

 

It seems clear to me from Matts encounter, that it is always in the form of a negotiation. Matt was just very very bad at it.

 

I always assumed that they knew Rand would save him. Maybe that's just his tavern luck again, and maybe they think he is dead.

However, since they form a link to the people they've seen they should have known he was saved.

 

I don't think death is a standard price, because we know Mat has a lot of memories of men who had visited them and died years later.

Which is why Mat seems to think they're still rooting around in his head, because they had access to memories that those men had AFTER visiting the Eelfin.

 

I believe his link to them was shattered when the doorway burned. I picture it as a doorway with an invisible door.

Once you go in, you can't go in again, however a string still goes through the deminsion.

When Lanfear and Moiraine went through then they slammed the door shut, which cut Mat's ties, and the Warder bond Tie.

 

When Moiraine visited the Aelfinn then her tie to Lan stayed in tact.

It was only when the doorway burnt up, did it disappear.

 

The TOG is a doorway that is always closed until you make the sign, and open it.

so no strings can go through there.

[Demiandre]

By being uncommon, it should be easier to remember... but in France, we have both Mathieu and Matthieu. Which give Mat and Matt.

 

We can spell Ta'veren, Tel'Aran'Rhiod, Elan Morin Tedronai, Barid Bel Medar without a secobd thought, but some stumble on three letters... A shame I'd say

But none of those words are similar to any words in the English language, hence there is nothing to get confused about. Whereas as Mat is common in French you find it easier to remember than English speaking people do.

 

Good point ;D

 

@ Docbean : I remember saying the same somewhere on this forum. About the Bond I mean.

But for the price, don't the Eelfinn say "wise to ask to leave, but fool not to set a price. We'll set the price. I think it is the price they take. But I like the idea of them knowing he would be saved.(maybe through the Aelfinn who browse through the future of Mat's thread). If not, then the other person going through may have set a price. Whatever it is. They could have been more informed about the laws of dealing with the finns, as they had to go through the ToG (the doorway beeing in the Waste, I don't think the Aiel would have allowed so much person going in Rhuidean).

[DocBean]

Well, here's a flaw with death being the price:

 

He wanted to be free of Aes Sedai. Well, death would easily do that.

So why give him the medallion?

 

That's why I assume they knew he was going to be ok.

Why give a corpse all those things?

 

His holes in his head have been filled up. - wish granted

He was sent back to Rhuiden (which was a lucky request) - they just made him hang from a tree. - wish granted

the medallion kept him from Aes Sedai messing with him. - wish granted

His payment was in the form of letting them take his past memories, and letting them look at his future memories.

 

The Eelfinn don't gain anything by killing him, but would by letting him live.

 

The spear is either a receipt, or something else altogether keeping him safe from the Male Aes Sedai, possibly.

edit: this didn't save him from Sammeal (or whichever Forsaken it was that shot him with a lightning bolt)

the mark on his neck might be his receipt.

[Duskfire]

Going back to Rhuidean was Mats third wish. I dont believe they were trying to kill him either; makes no sense they would bother with the medallion and the memories and and give him an ashanderei with a tantalising message on it if death was their intention.

[aunt_pol]

Well the Seafolk don't exactly go round peeling people, so I say advantage: Finns.

[Demiandre]

I reread the scene and two chapter after when Rand save Mat's life.

 

In all of it, there is always mention of "a" price. Not prices. But they talk aboug setting "terms".

 

So three wishes for a price. Could the spear be a afditional gift to balance the price setted, i.e., Mat's life?

"Thus is our treaty written, thus is the agreement made. Thought is the arrow of time, memory never fade. What was asked has been given. The price has been paid" or something not far away. It's clearly odd of them to leave a message for him to read if he is dead...

 

But if not Mat lige, what would be the price they requested?

[DocBean]

I reread the scene and two chapter after when Rand save Mat's life.

 

In all of it, there is always mention of "a" price. Not prices. But they talk aboug setting "terms".

 

So three wishes for a price. Could the spear be a afditional gift to balance the price setted, i.e., Mat's life?

"Thus is our treaty written, thus is the agreement made. Thought is the arrow of time, memory never fade. What was asked has been given. The price has been paid" or something not far away. It's clearly odd of them to leave a message for him to read if he is dead...

 

But if not Mat lige, what would be the price they requested?

 

The wanted the terror they'd get from him thinking he was going to die.

They'd still be watching him, and love that kind of emotion, but at the same time they knew he'd survive.

 

Maybe that's why they're keeping Moraine. They know Mat will come looking for her because she would tell them he's 1 of the 3 men.

His emotions, and future memories are part of a payment plan.

So they want their payment back. When she burned up the doorway, he stopped paying his bill.

Might be bad news for Mat, he'll have to cheat his way out.

[Demiandre]

I reread the scene and two chapter after when Rand save Mat's life.

 

In all of it, there is always mention of "a" price. Not prices. But they talk aboug setting "terms".

 

So three wishes for a price. Could the spear be a afditional gift to balance the price setted, i.e., Mat's life?

"Thus is our treaty written, thus is the agreement made. Thought is the arrow of time, memory never fade. What was asked has been given. The price has been paid" or something not far away. It's clearly odd of them to leave a message for him to read if he is dead...

 

But if not Mat lige, what would be the price they requested?

 

The wanted the terror they'd get from him thinking he was going to die.

They'd still be watching him, and love that kind of emotion, but at the same time they knew he'd survive.

 

Maybe that's why they're keeping Moraine. They know Mat will come looking for her because she would tell them he's 1 of the 3 men.

His emotions, and future memories are part of a payment plan.

So they want their payment back. When she burned up the doorway, he stopped paying his bill.

Might be bad news for Mat, he'll have to cheat his way out.

 

THAT! I like!! Extravagant yet cool. A bit far-fetched yet coherent. Maybe not true but would like to see it. The possibility of Moiraine beeing tortured or so by the Finns to get information^^

 

I knew someobe would lose his hide there. (Does it have the meaning it has in french?)

[sonieb33]

We can spell Ta'veren, Tel'Aran'Rhiod, Elan Morin Tedronai, Barid Bel Medar without a secobd thought, but some stumble on three letters... A shame I'd say

 

Ok, so you think it's a shame that people spell Mat wrong...but you can't spell negotiate (negociate) or second (secobd) LOL. Just teasing you!  ;D

[DocBean]

THAT! I like!! Extravagant yet cool. A bit far-fetched yet coherent. Maybe not true but would like to see it. The possibility of Moiraine beeing tortured or so by the Finns to get information^^

 

I knew someobe would lose his hide there. (Does it have the meaning it has in french?)

 

what meaning does it have in French?

and I don't think my theory is that far-fetched.

[Demiandre]

what meaning does it have in French?

simply "die" ;D

 

and I don't think my theory is that far-fetched

It is, even if only a little, no? Well, that's my opinion

 

Ok, so you think it's a shame that people spell Mat wrong...but you can't spell negotiate (negociate) or second (secobd) LOL. Just teasing you! 

Correct! :) For "negociate", I'm guilty! For "second", it's the keyboard of my phone which is too small. So I miss the good letter one out of two times^^