Moiraine

[RobertAlexWillis]

There are some other things in Nicola's Fortelling that do match up with Arthurian legend. For example, the presence of the three women on a boat, with the body of a dead ruler, who is not entirely dead and will come again, closely matches Arthur's legendary departure with the three queens on his death barge for Avalon. As well as the obvious Norse and somewhat more subtle Christian and Hindu references, Arthurian legend has been rampant in these books. The "Sword in the Stone" legend was cunningly disguised as Callandor in the Heart of the Stone. Excalibur was alternatively named Caliburn, Cladbolg, or Caledfwlch. The "Fisher King" with his perpetual wound was combination of Christ-symbol in Arthurian Grail legends and older Celtic myths, and that connection is almost explicitly stated in Moridin's POV.

 

 

Fortunately, I don't think Rand is going to have to sail off to his own version of Avalon. Jordan has shown a good ability to reference legend without becoming a slave to it.

[Trib4l]

Tar Valon most likely = Avalon.

[Guest Majsju]

Tar Valon most likely = Avalon.

 

Especially when you read LOC:

 

The lions sing and the hills take flight.

The moon by day, and the sun by night.

Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.

Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

 

-chant from a children's game heard in Great Aravalon, the Fourth Age.

 

I've at least always taken Great Aravalon as being the "new" Tar Valon, after eventual destruction in TG, bringing in the Asha'man etc.

[KaptainKaos]

I can't believe it but I never picked up on that. I always was wondering significance of the blind woman, deaf man, and jackdaw fool so I never thought about the source. Well, in response to that I really want to start out by cursing but I won't. That supports how I think the ending will be similar to King Arthur like what I said above and that is just really not cool. I don't know what else to say on the subject. Can't anyone come up with some evidence saying no the ending is not going to be left as open ended as the King Arthur ending. Rand is going to defeat the Dark One cleanly sealing him back in his Bore then fall down on the rocks at Shayol Ghul from exhaustion bleeding a little from his wounds for a few minutes while everyone thinks he is dead and then a bright light will come from the heavens and Heal him completely, he will get up and unite the world. Damn Sir Thomas Malory and his Arthur might have lived forever but was mortally wounded ending (even though I really enjoyed the book Le Morte d'Arthur).

[RobertAlexWillis]

As I said ... Jordan is good at referencing mythology without being a slave to it. Just because there are rampant Arthurian references doesn't mean that Rand is going to retire to Tar Valon, Great Aravalon, or the Sunnyside Avallone Retirement Center For The Perpetually Wounded. It just means that in the mythology of the Wheel, the Third Age is the source of our corrupted legends.

[KaptainKaos]

I agree in many cases Jordan has referenced mythology and taken it any further than that but there are also cases where he has gone further. Such as with the connections between Mat and Odin. Odin is the god of war and battle and has been attested as being the god of the hunt. The first two connections to Mat are obvious but in case the third isn't Mat is connected very closely to the Hunt for the Horn of Valere. Odin also chose to leave his eye in the purifying waters of Mimir's spring in order to gain "the wisdom of the ages." This is very similar to what it seems like Mat will have to do "Give up half the light of the world to save the world." Odin is also said to be the god that will assemble and entertain the "Great Band" of warriors that will fight for the Gods in the Norse final battle that is called Ragnarok. This also sounds familiar to Mat in that it seems he will lead the Band of the Red Hand which he has sung to and taught songs to entertain them. Odin was also known as "the bringer of victory." Odin is also said to travel the world as a one eye-eyed man that carries a spear and wears a wide-brimmed hat. Also Odin's main attributes are the spear and the Raven . The spear Mat carries and now because of his Seanchan ties Mat is the Prince of the Ravens. Robert Jordan may not be a slave to mythology but he sure does draw a lot of parallels in certain parts of his novels and in Norse mythology the god Rand seems to have similarities to after Knife of Dreams is Tyr the god of heroic glory who lost his hand and was destined "to kill and be killed" by Garm who is the powerful guard of the Norse Hell. I have no idea who is right and who is wrong about the ending of A Memory of Light all I know is that Jordan says several times in interviews that he has given us all the clues to solve almost every mystery in the series (he said that by the end of Fires of Heaven he gave all the necessary clues to solve who killed Asmodean) and I don't think that he would neglect giving us somewhat of an idea about what is going to happen in the end if we look for parallels to what he has referenced so far. I hope to the Light that it won't be an open ended conclusion to the story but there are quite a few things that show it could happen. One last thing, Jordan has said that for many years he has known the last scene of the series, why not it be exactly what Nicola foresaw with about 2000 pages (RJ said the last book could be as long as this) of information before to explain what is actually happening and why. (This is just a theory that I really hope doesn't happen.)

[RobertAlexWillis]

You done an excellent job of picking out major themes that match Norse, and earlier, Arthurian and fringe medievla Christian mythologies. And you are right in every essential point.

 

Fortunately, Jordan has shown that within the framework of "corrupted" mythology, he can do pretty much whatever he wants. Mat sounding the Horn of Valere (calling the dead warriors from Valhalla?), Mat's little ruby dagger incidents, Mat getting ready to apply explosives to battlefield technology, Mat's becoming Prince of Ravens ... all have been linked symbolically with mythology, but not bound to it in their particulars. I fully expect the pattern (or should I say ... Pattern) to continue. If Rand shows up dead or dying on a boat, and pays a post-mortem visit to Tar Valon, that would satisfy any Arthurian linkage necessary, and free Jordan to end it however he pleases.

[KaptainKaos]

That is definitely something I could see happening and I hope it does.