Sammael

[Huon]

Theory: Sammael was brought back by the Dark One, given a body, and is acting as Noal.

 

Sammael found a stasis box, and that's where the gholam came from. Sammael knew that Matt was in Ebou Dar because he saw him from the window. new-Sammael/Noal used the gholam to worm his way into Matt's entourage. Can we really accept that the gholam was afraid of one additional old man coming to help Matt?

 

Noal has been sneaking away to report to the gholam where Matt is headed, and that is why the gholam has managed to follow Matt so easily.

 

Noal repeated a story that Graendal told Sammael about the Ayyad tatoos.

 

Noal is Farstrider? I don't understand why Farstrider would offer so quickly to kill Amathera if he weren't twisted.

[Skeeve the Great]

Theory: Sammael was brought back by the Dark One, given a body, and is acting as Noal.

 

Sammael found a stasis box, and that's where the gholam came from. Sammael knew that Matt was in Ebou Dar because he saw him from the window. new-Sammael/Noal used the gholam to worm his way into Matt's entourage. Can we really accept that the gholam was afraid of one additional old man coming to help Matt?

 

Noal has been sneaking away to report to the gholam where Matt is headed, and that is why the gholam has managed to follow Matt so easily.

 

Noal repeated a story that Graendal told Sammael about the Ayyad tatoos.

 

Noal is Farstrider? I don't understand why Farstrider would offer so quickly to kill Amathera if he weren't twisted.

 

We've seen Noal at the same time when we'd seen Sammael. He can be him.

[JakeBarnes]

Theory: Sammael was brought back by the Dark One, given a body, and is acting as Noal.

 

Sammael found a stasis box, and that's where the gholam came from. Sammael knew that Matt was in Ebou Dar because he saw him from the window. new-Sammael/Noal used the gholam to worm his way into Matt's entourage. Can we really accept that the gholam was afraid of one additional old man coming to help Matt?

 

Noal has been sneaking away to report to the gholam where Matt is headed, and that is why the gholam has managed to follow Matt so easily.

 

Noal repeated a story that Graendal told Sammael about the Ayyad tatoos.

 

Noal is Farstrider? I don't understand why Farstrider would offer so quickly to kill Amathera if he weren't twisted.

 

Fact:  Sammael is Toast!

Fact:  When Sammael saw Mat out the window, he was speaking to Noal.

 

 

[Durinax]

Theory: Sammael was brought back by the Dark One, given a body, and is acting as Noal.

 

Sammael found a stasis box, and that's where the gholam came from. Sammael knew that Matt was in Ebou Dar because he saw him from the window. new-Sammael/Noal used the gholam to worm his way into Matt's entourage. Can we really accept that the gholam was afraid of one additional old man coming to help Matt?

 

Noal has been sneaking away to report to the gholam where Matt is headed, and that is why the gholam has managed to follow Matt so easily.

 

Noal repeated a story that Graendal told Sammael about the Ayyad tatoos.

 

Noal is Farstrider? I don't understand why Farstrider would offer so quickly to kill Amathera if he weren't twisted.

 

Fact:  Sammael is Toast!

Fact:  When Sammael saw Mat out the window, he was speaking to Noal.

 

 

besides the gholam retreating was probably due to orders to keep a low profile and from the gholams PoV Noal was yelling to more people who where coming up the street to assist. I figure it had orders to lay low as much as possible because I doubt a mob could kill it, any mob would rout if the gholam ripped out a few throats, and kept flowing around avoiding attacks

[yoniy0]

Fact:  Sammael is Toast!

True, those were RJ's exact words when he was asked about it.

 

Fact:  When Sammael saw Mat out the window, he was speaking to Noal.

Where does this come from? I see no reason to assume Noal is that same old man. In fact, Mat saw Lady Shiaine/Mili Skane speaking with the old-man-DF in a street, and I would think he won't forget his face that easily.

 

[Huon]

Sure, "Sammael is toast", but so was Lanfear, Aginor, and name your reincarnated Forsaken.

 

Frankly, Moridin leaving 11 chairs out when we had only seen two die by balefire should have us assuming that all others were still alive or reincarnated at that time. My bet is that Sammael is Noal.

[Durinax]

Sure, "Sammael is toast", but so was Lanfear, Aginor, and name your reincarnated Forsaken.

 

Frankly, Moridin leaving 11 chairs out when we had only seen two die by balefire should have us assuming that all others were still alive or reincarnated at that time. My bet is that Sammael is Noal.

I dont think so, the going trend is that they are reincarnated into youngish bodies not older ones. I personnally dont see much purpose in putting one of your best people into an old twisted body. People react better to beautiful people.

[MikeRiley]

Be'lal would be a greater case for an 11th forsaken given Moiraine's weaker balefire and Robert Jordan noting that it's not impossible for the Dark One to latch onto a balefired soul to transmigrate it to a new body. It didn't happen, though, just as it wouldn't have with Sammael. Robert Jordan didn't just say Sammael was toast meaning he died, he said that when asked if Sammael was back.

 

Noal is undoubtedly under the effects of compulsion. There's enough evidence in the books to say he is Farstrider and was under Ishamael's control. He probably still is.

[yoniy0]

I see what the problem is here. I didn't quote the whole thing. Well, here you go:

Sammael is dead. He is dead. He is dead. He may be reborn again, but then he will not remember he was Sammael. He cannot be reincarnated. He is dead.

So you see, Sammael isn't coming back. If the circumstance of his demise disturbs you, consider the following:

Q: Is Sammael dead?

RJ: Jordan responded that Sammael was dead as of the end of A Crown of Swords. Jordan felt that the character was a "louse" and didn't deserve a dramatic death ala Rahvin or Be'lal. He deserved a very vague death and was killed by something that he didn't pay attention to.

[Cirin]

I see what the problem is here. I didn't quote the whole thing. Well, here you go:

Sammael is dead. He is dead. He is dead. He may be reborn again, but then he will not remember he was Sammael. He cannot be reincarnated. He is dead.

So you see, Sammael isn't coming back. If the circumstance of his demise disturbs you, consider the following:

Q: Is Sammael dead?

RJ: Jordan responded that Sammael was dead as of the end of A Crown of Swords. Jordan felt that the character was a "louse" and didn't deserve a dramatic death ala Rahvin or Be'lal. He deserved a very vague death and was killed by something that he didn't pay attention to.

 

Just like Graendal.

 

:o ;D

[Huon]

That's weak. I haven't been on the forums long, and I think I'm done with the disparaging comments citing information leaked at one conference or another. I'm not a fan of having extra ammendations of the books dictated to me via pieces of press releases. For me, the books are about the story and what's made clear in the words of the book itself.

 

When Osangar, and Asangar, and Moridin were created, they all had memories of their past lives. They were forbidden to answer to their past names, but they all obviously have memories of before. Take Rands most recent conversation with Moridin for evidence. It doesn't matter that Noal looks old. I'm sure there is an inverted weave obsuring the younger, stronger body he has been given. How many times has Matt remarked how deceivingly strong Noal is?

 

When Noal, Matt, and Thom head to the tower, they are going to find trouble. Sammael's reincarnation is going to try to cause trouble but bring an intrument of iron or something that will help them break the rules. He'll be an antagonist who if they had not brought with them they would have failed.

 

I say again 11 chairs ... only 2 people killed by balefire. There should be 9 alive now. Moridin himself claims Sammael might be alive ... I'll place my bets there.

[Durinax]

That's weak. I haven't been on the forums long, and I think I'm done with the disparaging comments citing information leaked at one conference or another. I'm not a fan of having extra ammendations of the books dictated to me via pieces of press releases. For me, the books are about the story and what's made clear in the words of the book itself.

 

When Osangar, and Asangar, and Moridin were created, they all had memories of their past lives. They were forbidden to answer to their past names, but they all obviously have memories of before. Take Rands most recent conversation with Moridin for evidence. It doesn't matter that Noal looks old. I'm sure there is an inverted weave obsuring the younger, stronger body he has been given. How many times has Matt remarked how deceivingly strong Noal is?

 

When Noal, Matt, and Thom head to the tower, they are going to find trouble. Sammael's reincarnation is going to try to cause trouble but bring an intrument of iron or something that will help them break the rules. He'll be an antagonist who if they had not brought with them they would have failed.

 

I say again 11 chairs ... only 2 people killed by balefire. There should be 9 alive now. Moridin himself claims Sammael might be alive ... I'll place my bets there.

havent mat and noal touched before? that would negate the disguise. and if noal is jain farstrider, a long life of adventuring would give you a huge amount of strength, and a persons body type dictates how strong they look, it could just mean noal has dense muscles

[mb]

If Sammael was resurrected, the earliest introduction of his alias would be Path of Daggers; more probably several books after his death.

 

[yoniy0]

Huon, come on. I respect your saying you don't care about what Jim told some random fan, you only go by what's in the books. If after the series's over you think differently than I do on some occurrences, that's your prerogative.

 

But don't you think it's funny that you expect Jim to go by your interpretation rather than his? If he intended for Sammael to be dead, then you won't see him again in the books. You have full right to go ahead and believe Sammal's alive, but don't expect Brandon to confirm that theory (after Jim has explicitly discounted it).

[Luckers]

Indeed, I am somewhat confused. I understand you don't like Jordan having given out this peice of information, but that doesn't change the fact that he did.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Huon, come on. I respect your saying you don't care about what Jim told some random fan, you only go by what's in the books. If after the series's over you think differently than I do on some occurrences, that's your prerogative.

 

But don't you think it's funny that you expect Jim to go by your interpretation rather than his? If he intended for Sammael to be dead, then you won't see him again in the books. You have full right to go ahead and believe Sammal's alive, but don't expect Brandon to confirm that theory (after Jim has explicitly discounted it).

 

Indeed, I also respect this view, however, even though you dont like this method of recieving information, you have to conceed that it has been said, and is still correct, liked means or not.

 

Anyway, Noal was talking to Mat, as stated earlier, unless it was an insanely huge coincidence, that Mat was talking to another old man around the same time as he was talking to Noal.