Moiraine set it all up to get Mat in the ToG

[Owayn The Traveller]

He could get trapped in there for a little while and spends the next whiletrying to get out. He could still make it in time for the big blow up.

[SPQR78]

I really don't think Birgitte actually believed there was a ta'v'eren running around they didn't know about. Hence, her 'dry' tone, which seems, to me at least, that she was joking somewhat.  I think she was just amazed at the turn of events that were happening.  I don't think she has any special knowledge of other ta'v'eren, though I could be wrong.

 

I never heard anything, however, to think there couldn't be another ta'v'eren.  And who else but Jain Farstrider could be a ta'v'eren?  I'm doubtful though.

 

 

ALEA IACTA EST

[Crael123]

i think Thom is the more likely canidate.

[MikeRiley]

Thom isn't ta'veren. Siuan and an accepted in Salidar both had the talent for seeing a glow around ta'veren and Thom spent a considerable amount of time there.

[wipe]

Just a side thought conserning the comments about Mat's eye:

I've seen it stipulated that Mat's character is partly fashoned on the Norse God Odin. If this is the case I will just slip in the comment that Odin gave up one of his eyes to gain all the knowledge in the world :-) Imagine Mat with  knowledge like that...

[Duskfire]

I seriously doubt theres another ta`veren. For one thing, Ishamael and Lanfear were able to track ta`veren for awhile just by following their influence on the Pattern, yet they nor any other Forsaken mentioned another one. Rand, Mat and Perrin are all connected via their colours; there's been no fourth person about. Ta`veren also have things fall their way, and world changing things, such as Alliandre swearing fealty to Perrin, or Mat gaining an army even though he didn't want one. None of the characters Mat has associated with recently have anything like that.

 

 

[Cirin]

The person I could possibly see as being ta'veren is Noal, if he is Jain Farstrider, since he's had a long, interesting life full of adventure, Dark One plots, etc., but we haven't really gotten any strong indication that he is, so it might feel odd if he was all of a sudden.

 

As for Moiraine setting this all up, I think she went through the doorway in the first place to get Thom's attention.  Obviously she's been after him for some time: note her comment about knowing who she'll marry, even prior to going to Rhuidean.  Did she waste one of her Aelfinn questions on that?  I bet her questions were all like "Will Thom fall for me?"  "Will I marry Thom?"  "Oh, and what should I do to help the Dragon?"

 

Then she dove through the doorway and left Thom that note so that he would secretly pine and fall for her.  She is a crafty women, Moiraine. 

[insane_ashaman]

 

 Response to #1, #2 - When three individuals previously visited the Aelfinn through the door in Tear, two were Ta'veren and Moiraine I believe should be considered a 'Hero'.  The Aelfinn ended up giving Mat more than three answers, because of Rand's additional Ta'veren-ness being present in the same general area as Mat's Tav'eren-ness.

 

My concern is bolded. No proof that this was a result of having 2 tav'eren in the Aelfinn's realm. Could have as easily been a result of Mat's luck, I have no proof of this, so I, like you, am merely grasping the cliff's edge if I make that statement.  

   

Why?  Because putting two Ta'veren in an area together messes up how other individuals act more than a single Ta'veren would.

 

 

No kidding, only been beaten over the head with this one in the series. They can do more together than apart, we know, that this is the case in the Ael/Eel realms is something we don't know.

 

This can be seen when even the Aelfinn were manipulated to act differently by Rand & Mat

 

Only Mat. See above.

 

as was even Loial manipulated to speak his true feelings about Erith & marriage once before by Rand & Perrin.  Ta'veren-ness matters.

 

Was this in EOTW, TGH, TSR, or COS I can't remember at the moment. Please provide reference, not that it matters since your points are false.

 

Even the Eelfinn whom hold Moiraine and likely Lanfear should be effected if a second Ta'veren came along with Thom and Mat.  Unfortunately, Mat learned first hand what having only one Ta'veren versus having two Tav'eren can lead to; a hanging outside the Eelfinn's doorway versus being thrown out the Aelfinn's door.  

 

My concern is bolded. No, Mat was hung for not setting a price for his leavetaking from the Eelfinn's (can't remember which is which) realm, not failing to have another tav'eren with him.

 

We get it, you have a really ungrounded theory about a side character who shares a name with a Hero of the Horn, so he HAS to be a tav'eren. Untrue, not every HOH is a tav'eren. I think it's funny that every few times you post you find a way to reference this theory, thus keeping it fresh in our minds. Otherwise it would be forgotton like any other crazy theory. It reminds me of white celebrities adopting children from third world nations to get publicity for being great humanitarians once their careers have faded.

[Duskfire]

Keep in mind guys that not everyone who is influential or has a full life is a ta`veren. They are extremely rare individuals who's presence changes the future (or at least what is perceived by the common person as the future.) I've seen people claim Egwene is a ta`veren, or Logain, or even Ishamael, but it doesn't work like that. There is a clear difference between those and particularly what has happened to Mat and Perrin.

[Dastion]

Bela is the fourth ta'veren.  Kidding :-)

 

Moiraine knew that she and Thom had a connection long before entering the door frame in the Stone.  She was able to tell them that Thom was not dead, and made mention of knowing her future husband before that event.  Which indicates a viewing from Min when the party first encountered her in Beralon.  I think by now most of this is commonly accepted knowledge.

 

As to comparing Moiraine's rather detailed use of the knowledge gained in the rings to the Wise ones..it is important to note that while the knowledge gained is said to fade, that does not mean you cannot latch on to some important bits and remember them.   Moiraine is crafty and does her share of scheming, but she has spent her life dedicated to helping the Dragon win the last battle.  You can bet that any important turning points she saw in the near future she would take note of..and considering how driven her course was and her attachment to multiple Ta'veren the options for her future were few.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she saw herself deciding to do strange things (i.e. take rand to her bed), but my pooint is that her future is so driven down this dedicated path that seeing and remembering these important points would be much easier than it would be for, as someone mentioned earlier, a Shaido Wise Woman who likely entered the rings several years ago as an apprentice and then continued to go about her day to day life.

 

Moiraine would give up her life in an instant if she thought it gave the world a better chance to survive the final battle.  She hints at knowing other important things which she dare not reveal.

 

I do believe that Mat will likely lose his eye here, it being the 'price' he is forced to pay.  And I think that Thom's music, the firesticks, ect. will play an important role.  Noal (i.e. Jaim Farstrider) will probably finally reveal some of his secrets, but he's no ta'veren.

 

As to pet theories.  I once mused that perhaps the long term effects of being around the finns (and their 'feeding' off of your experiences) might cause you to age more quickly (sort of a Rip Van Winkle reference), so Moiraine might be several years older (More Thom's age?) when she is rescued.  I'd rather not see an old Moiraine, but someone brought up theories so I felt like mentioning it.

[paisley100]

ummm... one thing is that Noal isn't Jain Farstrider, he knew him... if i remember correctly Jain was the reason is sister died or some such... i can't really remember for sure...

[Duskfire]

ummm... one thing is that Noal isn't Jain Farstrider, he knew him... if i remember correctly Jain was the reason is sister died or some such... i can't really remember for sure...

 

He was lying. There is far far too much that points to them being the same person rather then they be related.

[Random Man]

ummm... one thing is that Noal isn't Jain Farstrider, he knew him... if i remember correctly Jain was the reason is sister died or some such... i can't really remember for sure...

 

He was lying. There is far far too much that points to them being the same person rather then they be related.

Noal claimed to be Jain's cousin when Mat questioned him, and then said that Jain left his own wife to die when he went off gallivanting around. It honestly smacked of his own remorse for the decisions he'd made. The evidence (Noal's own stories of his "travels" and his reaction to Mat's tale of the Finns "That beats anything I ever did...or Jain did" or something like that, and so on) certainly indicate he was lying, and is, in fact, Jain Farstrider.