A Match In Power

[Durinax]

Regardless of whether or not Rand is the most powerful, its still highly unlikely anyone could beat him in a straight out fight (obviously Semihrage got close, but that trick won't work again.) Ishamael may be on the same level, but Rand still kicked his ass three times in a row, and that was without his current experience or skills. Now Ishy would have no hope.

Rand was being played with the first 3 times. if Ishamael wanted rand dead he woulda just killed him in his dreams instead of what he did

[Duskfire]

Regardless of whether or not Rand is the most powerful, its still highly unlikely anyone could beat him in a straight out fight (obviously Semihrage got close, but that trick won't work again.) Ishamael may be on the same level, but Rand still kicked his ass three times in a row, and that was without his current experience or skills. Now Ishy would have no hope.

Rand was being played with the first 3 times. if Ishamael wanted rand dead he woulda just killed him in his dreams instead of what he did

 

Well, thats mostly a matter of opinion. I agree that the first 2 times Ishamael was, but in the Stone of Tear he was in a murderous rage and was definetly not playing. Add the fact that Lews Therin easily bested Ishamael during the Age of Legends twice, that suggests to me that Moridin would have no chance against Rand.

[Cirin]

My brother and I were discussing one day, and wondering if you ever actually see Ishamael or Moridin channeling the One Power.  I don't remember him doing it ever.  It's sort of a moot point, but I was always a little curious if he got stilled or severed during one of those Age of Legends encounters (like when he was "Humbled at the Hall of Servants" or whatever), and just uses the True Power exclusively now (I believe RJ said you could still use the TP if severed)?

[Skeeve the Great]

My brother and I were discussing one day, and wondering if you ever actually see Ishamael or Moridin channeling the One Power.  I don't remember him doing it ever.  It's sort of a moot point, but I was always a little curious if he got stilled or severed during one of those Age of Legends encounters (like when he was "Humbled at the Hall of Servants" or whatever), and just uses the True Power exclusively now (I believe RJ said you could still use the TP if severed)?

 

Did you miss Rand vs Ishamael in tDR?

[Cirin]

Didn't miss it, but it was a while ago.  He probably is using the One Power there, I suppose.  Rand can probably see the weaves, am I right?  When we were speculating about it, neither of us had read that book in a while.  I remember him using balefire and whatnot, just don't remember if Rand can see the weaves, or just reacts instinctively.

 

Either way, though, it's still possible, since they're in some sort of weird state where they battle in the sky, etc.  Rand could see the Dark One's cord in other settings like that.  It doesn't really matter, though, I was just curious.  I'm not going to fight too hard to defend the idea.  ;)

[DemandredFO]

Besides Ishamael would be kind of useless training male dreadlords if he couldn't use saidin.  Obviously, he can't train female dreadlords but now he has Moghedien and Cyndane

[Hadilmir]

Obviously, he can't train female dreadlords

I don't see why not, he has Linking.

[Cirin]

Besides Ishamael would be kind of useless training male dreadlords if he couldn't use saidin.  Obviously, he can't train female dreadlords but now he has Moghedien and Cyndane

 

Hmm... do they say somewhere that he is busy training Dreadlords, or is it just assumed?  It's possible I missed it, if they did.

[Durinax]

Besides Ishamael would be kind of useless training male dreadlords if he couldn't use saidin.  Obviously, he can't train female dreadlords but now he has Moghedien and Cyndane

 

Hmm... do they say somewhere that he is busy training Dreadlords, or is it just assumed?  It's possible I missed it, if they did.

all we know is that moridin has a fortress in the blight and seems to be gathering shadowspawn armies

[Kaman]

I wish RJ would have made a definitive scale that could be used for power comparisons of both male and female channelers. I have made my own scale for personal use based on statements made through out the series. I don't put my scale forward as absolutely accurate but I do feel that it is good for general comparisons. These are some of the statements I relied on.

 

1. 13 of the weakest female Aes Sedai can shield even the strongest male channelers. This sets the upper limit for strength.

 

2. Men are stronger than women in the one power in the same proportions as men are stronger than women in physical strength. This sets the span for comparison between the most powerful male -vs- female channelers. For a real world event showing the maximum difference in physical strength I use the Olympic weight lifting event known as the clean and jerk. Women max out around 400 lbs and men max out around 600 lbs. The difference being a 50% increase in max strength for the men.

 

3. On this scale 1 represents the minimum power level to become an Aes Sedai.

 

4. 12 is the maximum power level for a man, just slightly less powerful than 13 level 1 Aes Sedai linked.

 

5. 8 is the max power level for a women as 12 for men would be a 50% increase over power level 8.

 

6. A level 4 is 4 times more powerful than a level 1, no need for complicated math.

 

7. The vast majority of current living Aes Sedai are level 2 or less.

 

8. level 2 is the minimum to open a gateway, level 3 is the minimum to open a gateway large enough for a grown man to walk through standing upright.

 

9. Men and women of the same power levels have identical strength, but the women would be far more likely to win in a fight because of there far greater deftness in weaving the one power. This assumes a equal level of training and knowledge.

 

10. Generally speaking a equally trained man would need a 50% strength advantage to match the accomplishments a women could achieve in the one power.  

 

Power

Level

12   LTT/Rand - Ishy/Moridin

11   Demandred - Dashiva

10   Logain

9    Asmodean

8    Lanfear

7    Sharina - Graendal      

6    Nynaeve      

5    Moghedien      

4    Egwene - Elayne - Aviendha      

3    Moiraine - Old Siuan      

2    Alanna - Verin      

1    New Siuan

 

These are only opinions of mine, some placements may be moved plus or minus 1 on the scale but should be close enough to get an idea.

 

Also, This is my take on Angreal/Sa'angreal.

 

1. This scale is a 10 point scale

 

2. There is no difference between Angreal and Sa'angreal except for the amount they can magnify the one power.

 

3. Sa'angreal at a minimum fully double the amount of the one power a person can draw.

 

4. On this 10 point scale Sa'angreal begins at 4 anything less is plain angreal.

 

5. After 4 Sa'angreal double in strength every 2 points, so a 6 is twice the strength of a 4 and a 8 is twice that of 6 ect, ect.

 

Power    Amount of

Level    Increase

10         16x    The Choedan Kal

9          12x

8          8x     Unnamed male Sa'angreal

7          6x     Callandor

6          4x     Vora's Fluted Wand Used by Egwene in tGS

5          3x

4          2x     Minimum level for Sa'angreal, true doubling of the one power

----------------

3          75%    Max level for Angreal

2          50%    little fat man

1          25%

 

This is how I brake the Angreal/Sa'angreal issue down.  So Rand has a base power level of 12. When he uses Callandor it would magnify the amount of saidin he could handle from 12 to 72 a massive power increase. When he uses the Choedan Kal it increses from 12 to 192, a truly mind numbing jump in the one power. When Egwene uses Vora's fluted wand it increses her power from 4 to 16, much more powerful than any man would be unaided.I feel that this a good and fair ranking of Egwene when she is using the fluted wand. She doesn't do anything to warrant a higher ranking, at least nothing like Rand can do with Callandor or the Choedan Kal. It seems to me like Egwenes power is closer to Rand when he uses the Little Fat Man angreal in the battle around Cairhein towards the end of book 5.  

 

 

[Cirin]

Besides Ishamael would be kind of useless training male dreadlords if he couldn't use saidin.  Obviously, he can't train female dreadlords but now he has Moghedien and Cyndane

 

Hmm... do they say somewhere that he is busy training Dreadlords, or is it just assumed?  It's possible I missed it, if they did.

all we know is that moridin has a fortress in the blight and seems to be gathering shadowspawn armies

 

Okay, that's what I thought.  I really don't see Moridin as wasting his time training people how to do things with the One Power.  Seems like a task that would fall to Taim or some other Dreadlord, or maybe Demandred.

[DemandredFO]

Now he has others to train men but what of before the seals crumbled, some of those false dragons could've been Df's.  Then the trolloc wars, the male dreadlords didn't train themselves

[Durinax]

I am starting to wonder why demandred istn up there training and organizing the armies, after all he is their best general still alive I think

 

while moridin is down south working on sewing chaos

[Cirin]

All this talk of power levels is making me think of Dragonball Z... maybe that's where they got the name "The Dragon!"

 

/facepalm

[Kaman]

Shaidar Haran can be Piccolo and Taim can be Vegetta. Egwene can be the annoying girl that always needs rescuing and only contributes a low neckline.