The Amyrlin's Anger

[farthammer]

Man, everyone hates internet spelling nazis but it's real difficult to read a good sized post like that with so much txt speak.

[draconian]

Man, everyone hates internet spelling nazis but it's real difficult to read a good sized post like that with so much txt speak.

sry i dont write or type very much b/c my hands dont work very well so my typing and editing is terrible on long posts.

[StefanR]

Having Egwene chill out with the whole controlling thing has nothing to do with her gender.

 

It's due to the fact that she's an unexperienced girl who thinks she knows what's better for the world than anybody else and she should control events.

 

Rand is the DRAGON REBORN, the whole whole rests upon him, he has the most weight on his shoulders of ANYBODY, EVER.

 

Who is Egwene to say she knows more about how Rand should act than the greatest ta veren who is responsible for stopping the DO from escaping. She has no background or skills other than TAR that would make her the tiniest bit qualified for being in charge at all.

 

The most she's done is gain control of a bunch of whiny babies who thought they had everything under control, but when were attacked, even their "battle ajah" was comepletely overwhelmed.

 

 

Don't bring gender into it, it has nothing to do with that.

[Hadilmir]

post

She's been right so far though. Egwene is also now the second-most powerful woman in the Westlands, that's pretty good for an 'unexperienced girl'. Personally, I find your argument, as is, baseless.

[draconian]

post

She's been right so far though. Egwene is also now the second-most powerful woman in the Westlands, that's pretty good for an 'unexperienced girl'. Personally, I find your argument, as is, baseless.

what has she been right about? that rand needs tobe "guided"? if his point isnt valid then tell us what does she know about fighting the TG the forsaken and the DO that rand doesnt know? its the whole so called aes sedai telling rand how dangerous balefire  is and calling him a child all over again.

[StefanR]

post

She's been right so far though. Egwene is also now the second-most powerful woman in the Westlands, that's pretty good for an 'unexperienced girl'. Personally, I find your argument, as is, baseless.

 

She's the second most powerful woman yes, but she has no actual experience/knowledge of how to win the last battle or anything that would give credence to the belief that she should guide (control) Rand.

 

She's the second most powerful woman? Rand is the tied for the most powerful person period, with Moridin.

 

How is she qualified to decide how he should act or do things to win the last battle?

 

[Hadilmir]

what has she been right about? that rand needs tobe "guided"? if his point isnt valid then tell us what does she know about fighting the TG the forsaken and the DO that rand doesnt know? its the whole so called aes sedai telling rand how dangerous balefire  is and calling him a child all over again.

When did I mention future actions? I said she's been right so far, nothing about what she plans to do. Yet following that pattern, I'd say she'll find a way to be right when TG rolls through. She said she would make a terrible Amyrlin when she was raised, she proved that wrong. Now she says she has to guide Rand, she'll prove that wrong too. It's just Egwene's character style.

 

Seriously, what's with the hating? Atleast tell me you also do not like Elayne or Min, if you say that I can just accept that you dislike the supergirls and drop it.

[farthammer]

Because Rand was an inch away from obliterating his father and going into full meltdown mode while Egwene took a totally screwed up institution and got things together?

[DemandredFO]

Egwene did that true but she had training from a number of sources while Rand had absolutely none.

[farthammer]

I guess I don't know what you mean because Rand has had a number of mentors, even if it was a strange collection of them, from Asmodean to Cadsuane.

[MikeRiley]

Egwene is Aes Sedai to her toenails now and only the White Tower thinks the White Tower has to run things during the Last Battle. She got things together with the Aes Sedai, yes, but that is nothing on a global scale and she has shown herself to be completely close minded with things. The fact that she still thinks she knows better than Rand what he should do suggests this. Her assumption that he should be led by the White Tower exists purely because Aes Sedai believe they have to run everything. Notice the word is guide and not advise. He must bend knee to them because they are somehow superior.

 

Egwene was once told that Rand was in danger and only she and Nynaeve could help him. She then willingly entered the Ways, found herself collared and put Rand in greater danger than he previously was in. This is the same Egwene who is in charge of the White Tower now and says Rand must be guided. She always had a self-inflated ego and a big head, becoming Amyrlin will just make her worse.

[farthammer]

Well most of that applies to Rand as well.  At this point I think people just want Egwene to turn into Elaida number two so they can hopefully watch Rand putting the smack down over things that happened 10 books ago. 

 

I think I'll add that I don't really care about Egwene, however a lot of the posts here seem to assume we will see basically a repeat of LTT/Patra back in the AoL, where LTT was the single most powerful person in the world.  That ended in near disaster and I think as far as second chances go for Rand's soul, he will have to find another way.  LTT certainly had a lot of people in his life who turned their backs on him, and a lot of it sounds personal from what AoL history is out there.

[gambril]

Egwene can do whatever she wants and think whatever she wants obviously but on some things she needs to be sat down about as hard as can be.  The only other character I feel this way about is Tuon but anyways.

 

The first thing she needs to learn a good lesson on is The White Tower and Aes Sedai.  In some ways the White Tower and the U.S. share similiraties.  The more powerful one is the more arrogant they become (and AS have had 3k years to do this, not 60).  The more you meddle in other peoples' affairs, the more they are going to despise you.  Instead of manipulating and meddling, perhaps Aes Sedai can relearn what the meaning of servant is and serve people? Egwene and all Aes Sedai need to get on board and open their eyes, otherwise when they wake up the Dark One will have won already.

 

Secondly, Egwene thinking she needs to manipulate Rand is wrong on so many levels.  It's almost like the first 6 books Egwene wasn't even there and learned nothing from Moiraine and the Wise Ones.  Egwene goes from thinking she will marry Rand, to loving him as a brother to thinking he can't do anything without her and her precious Aes Sedai there to hold his hand.  Well, heres to hoping Moiraine, Nynaeve, Cadsuane and the Wise Ones can set her straight.  Otherwise Rand will lose without Egwene's support.

 

The two things that are certain in regards to Egwene's future is:  She will be on trial somehow or another and "be on the headmans block" and the ever perfect Gawyn needs to be there to save her (boy do these two belong together with their naive assumptions and unjustified hatred towards Rand). She will also meet some Seachan woman that will offer her help.  How these two events can bring about change in Egwene's thoughts concerning her belief that Aes Sedai are walking Gods, who can know.

[MikeRiley]

My last post doesn't apply to Rand at all. He is the Dragon Reborn. He has a mountain of responsibilities resting on his shoulders. If his ego is inflated it's through no fault of his own.

 

I don't want to see Egwene turn into another Elaida, nor do I want to see Rand put her in her place. I do not want to see her attempting to bully him, though, and I think she will try to because she can channel and automatically knows best.

 

I would rather see them working together - the second chance idea. I just don't see it happening with Egwene acting as she always has. She believes that because she is Aes Sedai she has to be the one to lead and what Rand wants does not matter.

 

 

Also, the US and the White Tower don't really compare in that way, Gambril. Let's just leave real world politics out of it?

 

 

[gambril]

Hmm, why not?  It's a good analogy with the same results. *shrug*

[farthammer]

Rand has definitely been close minded, sometimes to the point of near disaster.  For the same reason people think that the Dragon is supposed to be the most powerful person alive in every aspect, and therefore AS are not qualified to butt in, also makes his failures that much larger in magnitude.  Anyway, there isn't a whole lot Egwene could do to truly bully him.  He will either choose to accept it or not.  Anyone that has tried controlling him has either failed or died.  Anyway, remember her greatest fears on her test for becoming Accepted involved her betraying Rand over and over.  A couple years isn't going to wash all of that away.  This control thing is just blown out of proportion.

[azrael.1289]

How is any of that different from Rand acting like an Aiel clan chief when he first got to the Waste?  The Amyrlin is as much a politician as anything else, the state of the AS in general was many times worse than any of the annoying aspects to Egwene's personality.  It was hers for the taking because after all, who else?  There was no one.

Difference is, rand is a Man, and as such can be allowed to do what he wants. Egwene being a woman should just sit quietly and wait until Rand, or another man tells her what to do.

Yep...That's the reason why some people don't like what Egwene is doing...she is a woman. ::)

 

Because Rand was an inch away from obliterating his father and going into full meltdown mode while Egwene took a totally screwed up institution and got things together?

Really? You are comparing Rand's situation with Egwene's?

Let's see....Rand is literally insane at the point when he almost destroyed the world. Everyone around him I would say contributed atleast a bit to his insanity.

He literally has the weight of the whole world on his shoulders. He screws up and the world is destroyed. Add to this EVERYONE he meets either hates him, or is trying to use him, the forsaken are after him personally, was exposed to the taint for a long time etc etc. and it's a wonder he didn't go completely insane way earlier.

I find it funny how everyone thinks Rand is not doing a good job at being a Dragon. Really? They should be grateful he is doing it at all. Everyone would be screwed if he just said "Screw you all...I've had it with your manipulations and lying" and just Traveled to some remote part of the world and live happily till DO destroys the world. I mean as far as he knows, he won't survive past TG anyways.

 

That ended in near disaster.

Compared to the alternative, I would say it ended really really well.

[gambril]

I just had the thought about Egwene's anger towards Rand and where it could come from.  Consider that Egwene is going to bond Gawyn.  So when Egwene meets Rand, Gawyn will be there and his anger towards Rand will feed her and make her angry at him.  Pretty stupid and petty but that's how Egwene and Gawyn roll.

[farthammer]

My point was that he has assumed there were no alternatives, and realized that wasn't true at the last possible moment.  We also don't know what the consequences if any will be for using the TP.

[Hadilmir]

Azrael, was the triple post necessary?

 

Anyway, I think farthammer's second to last post sums up my thoughts better than arguing will.

 

Final point- Last Egwene saw Rand he was Naive Rand from book six, that Rand needed guiding. That is what Egwene is prepared for. New Rand will be quite a shock to her, and I don't mean the hand-less-ness.

 

Just kidding, real final point- I disagree! :D

[azrael.1289]

Azrael, was the triple post necessary?

Considering the effect it's had, I would say more was needed :P

Any way I fixed it now....Happy?

 

Anyway, I think farthammer's second to last post sums up my thoughts better than arguing will.

The funny thing about that if you notice is no one else showed him an alternative. No one guided him towards one. He came to it all by himself(with the help from pattern through LTT memories ofc)

 

Final point- Last Egwene saw Rand he was Naive Rand from book six, that Rand needed guiding. That is what Egwene is prepared for. New Rand will be quite a shock to her, and I don't mean the hand-less-ness.

 

Nice one...lol. But last Egwene saw Rand, she was a naive little girl who had no idea what she is dealing with. I mean if she can change(supposedly) why can't Rand. Knowing her, I'm sure she'll forget that part.

Just kidding, real final point- I disagree! :D

Ofc you do. That's why Egwene discussions are always fun. Neither party agrees on a single point.

 

My final point. Everyone(who wants light to win) should try to trust Rand(and the pattern ofc) to do what he was meant to, what the pattern wants him to do till TG is over. After that they can call him wool headed mule or whatever and bully him.

[Mr Ares]

Because Rand was an inch away from obliterating his father and going into full meltdown mode while Egwene took a totally screwed up institution and got things together?

Really? You are comparing Rand's situation with Egwene's?

Let's see....Rand is literally insane at the point when he almost destroyed the world.

I'd say that is a good reason why he needs all the help he can get. Egwene is, after all, still sane.

He literally has the weight of the whole world on his shoulders.

No, he doesn't. If he did, he would have been crushed to death.

[azrael.1289]

I'd say that is a good reason why he needs all the help he can get. Egwene is, after all, still sane.

Absolutely. He can use all the help he can get. Problem is no one is offering.

 

No, he doesn't. If he did, he would have been crushed to death.

Unless he is also Atlas reborn.

[Mcpatrick]

 

I'd say that is a good reason why he needs all the help he can get. Egwene is, after all, still sane.

Rand is sane now. And probably 400 years old too. (Assuming he remembers the rest of being LTT)

 

No, he doesn't. If he did, he would have been crushed to death.

He very nearly was.

 

Min has it right. He doesn't need guidance or handling, he needs advice and help. Unfortunately, she is the only one who seems to realise this.

 

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

I'd say that is a good reason why he needs all the help he can get. Egwene is, after all, still sane.

Rand is sane now. And probably 400 years old too. (Assuming he remembers the rest of being LTT)

 

No, he doesn't. If he did, he would have been crushed to death.

He very nearly was.

 

Min has it right. He doesn't need guidance or handling, he needs advice and help. Unfortunately, she is the only one who seems to realise this.

 

 

Exactly, thats why he needs Moiraine back, Egwene doesnt understand this, neither do the rest of the AS, excepting possibly Nynaeve and Cadsuane now