RJ on the relationship between the sexes in WoT

[dogsdogsdogs]

Does anyone have a link to any QA where Robert addresses the dichotomy between the men and the women and why the women are so often insufferable?

[Nomos]

Insufferable?  I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but if you think about it, 80-90% of the named women are either channelers, wise ones, or nobility.  What woman in a position of authority do you know that is going to be spineless?  Aes Sedai aren't insufferable as much as they are arrogant in their position of authority, especially when shown by Cadsuane.  In her opinion, she has the right to be abrasive and high-handed.  Nynaeve was a village wisdom and later an AS, so she has the typical arrogance of a woman in power.  Males in the series are just as arrogant, with Mat going to rescue Elayne and Egwene whether they need it or not, or Rand thinking it's his responsibility to keep his three women safe when they are quite capable of taking care of themselves.  In truth, it seems that he draws a very similar comparison to the way males and females interact in the present day West, where married women often run their households. 

 

I think he shows it best in his books when Nynaeve thinks men are nothing but gossips when she herself exemplifies the traits she scorns in others. 

[dogsdogsdogs]

Insufferable?  I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but if you think about it, 80-90% of the named women are either channelers, wise ones, or nobility.  What woman in a position of authority do you know that is going to be spineless?  Aes Sedai aren't insufferable as much as they are arrogant in their position of authority, especially when shown by Cadsuane.  In her opinion, she has the right to be abrasive and high-handed.  Nynaeve was a village wisdom and later an AS, so she has the typical arrogance of a woman in power.  Males in the series are just as arrogant, with Mat going to rescue Elayne and Egwene whether they need it or not, or Rand thinking it's his responsibility to keep his three women safe when they are quite capable of taking care of themselves.  In truth, it seems that he draws a very similar comparison to the way males and females interact in the present day West, where married women often run their households.  

 

I think he shows it best in his books when Nynaeve thinks men are nothing but gossips when she herself exemplifies the traits she scorns in others.  

They're mostly petty, self righteous imbeciles from what I can tell. With the exception of the wise ones, Moraine and Min, and Aviendha to some extent.

 

I often find myself wondering what we're supposed to think of the AS, we're told ad nauseum that, 'she was a measure of Aes Sedai calm and tranquility' yet at the smallest slight or insult they're raging, bickering teenagers who need to be spanked.

[torrente]

Sometimes it is funny because the characters are shown/written to be comical in their hypocrisy.

 

Other than that, it's a bore.

 

Edit: That kind of language does not belong here.

[dogsdogsdogs]

Sometimes it is funny because the characters are shown/written to be comical in their hypocrisy.

 

Other than that, it's a bore.

 

Edit: That kind of language does not belong here.

what kind of language?

[JenniferL]

Swedish.

[dogsdogsdogs]

Swedish.

of course, those scum.

[Nomos]

Insufferable?  I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but if you think about it, 80-90% of the named women are either channelers, wise ones, or nobility.  What woman in a position of authority do you know that is going to be spineless?  Aes Sedai aren't insufferable as much as they are arrogant in their position of authority, especially when shown by Cadsuane.  In her opinion, she has the right to be abrasive and high-handed.  Nynaeve was a village wisdom and later an AS, so she has the typical arrogance of a woman in power.  Males in the series are just as arrogant, with Mat going to rescue Elayne and Egwene whether they need it or not, or Rand thinking it's his responsibility to keep his three women safe when they are quite capable of taking care of themselves.  In truth, it seems that he draws a very similar comparison to the way males and females interact in the present day West, where married women often run their households. 

 

I think he shows it best in his books when Nynaeve thinks men are nothing but gossips when she herself exemplifies the traits she scorns in others. 

They're mostly petty, self righteous imbeciles from what I can tell. With the exception of the wise ones, Moraine and Min, and Aviendha to some extent.

 

I often find myself wondering what we're supposed to think of the AS, we're told ad nauseum that, 'she was a measure of Aes Sedai calm and tranquility' yet at the smallest slight or insult they're raging, bickering teenagers who need to be spanked.

 

Maybe Galahad will stumble into the White Tower and dole out some vicious spankings?

 

But nNow I think you're over-generalizing and trolling.  Smallest slight or insult...let's have some specifics.  I don't particularly like the AS, and I hope they get taken down a notch or two in ego, but they don't bicker like teenagers. 

 

I also think you're missing the point of a lot of the tongue-in-cheek humor RJ sprinkled throughout the series. 

[NightfalconGTSR]

This was talked about a lot at the beginning of the series but now not so much. In the small world of the two rivers there seemed to be a pretty big divide between the men and women, example being the womans circle and the wisdom. Once they got out in the world this difference becomes much less aparant or rather less talked about. I think it may still be there with the seanchan. But as for RJ having a Q/A where he discusses this, I think he may have. I do remember him talking about it in something I read but that was long ago and it may just be my imagination.

 

the AS annoy the heck out of me when they act like they are better than everyone and that everyone should listen to what they think you should do. Thats just me though. Some are worse than others.

[Nightstrike]

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=372

 

Search in "women & men" for quotes about that.

 

[Taryntula]

I remember reading something about RJ wanting to write the world as if Men had taken the fall first in the Garden of Eden, instead of the women. Up until maybe the 20th Century the Western World viewed women as the weaker sex (read Tess of the D'Ubervilles or The Scarlet Letter) due to the interpretation that they sinned first in the Garden.

 

I don't have a quote to verify it...but that was my understanding. Maybe someone else knows which interview that was from? Or whether I'm smoking something?

[Tollieman]

I remember reading something about RJ wanting to write the world as if Men had taken the fall first in the Garden of Eden, instead of the women. Up until maybe the 20th Century the Western World viewed women as the weaker sex (read Tess of the D'Ubervilles or The Scarlet Letter) due to the interpretation that they sinned first in the Garden.

 

I don't have a quote to verify it...but that was my understanding. Maybe someone else knows which interview that was from? Or whether I'm smoking something?

 

Makes sense. Just substitude 'apple' with 'breaking the world' and you're right!

[Agitel]

I wouldn't quite say insufferable, but most of the woman who are... strong-willed (lol) tend to be from the Tower. Which is an all female institution with little contact with males and is also the most powerful political bloc in the region, and all of the members are given (and certainly expect) a great deal of respect.

 

Certainly such an environment doesn't help too much.

 

As a whole, I'd say the genders are fairly balanced around the world (the scale tips more in some areas than others), with a definite exception for the role of channelers.

[Casabamelon]

Swedish.

of course, those scum.

 

There's only two things I hate in this world.

 

People who are intolerant of other people's cultures...

and the Dutch.

[Majsju]

I remember reading something about RJ wanting to write the world as if Men had taken the fall first in the Garden of Eden, instead of the women. Up until maybe the 20th Century the Western World viewed women as the weaker sex (read Tess of the D'Ubervilles or The Scarlet Letter) due to the interpretation that they sinned first in the Garden.

 

I don't have a quote to verify it...but that was my understanding. Maybe someone else knows which interview that was from? Or whether I'm smoking something?

 

RJ talked about how he read a book about a society where women were not allowed to use magic. This made him start to think about how the opposite would look, and from there he came up with WOT.