To make no weapon for one man to kill another...

[Mr Ares]

In the modern world, we do not require politicians to be rendered incapable of lying. We extend the same trust to them as we would to anyone else. AS were not trusted before the Oaths, they are not trusted now. If the Oaths were intended to build trust, they failed. And they did have political power in the AoL.

[Giganos]

Aes Sedai hedge and wiggle to get out of the oath about speaking no word that is not true. Few people I have talked to think much on how much the Aes Sedai would hedge and wiggle with the weapon oath should they feel like doing so.

 

1

An iron sword is made by a blacksmith, razor sharp to the best of his ability.

An Aes Sedai changes the sword to make it Heartstone.

If the Aes Sedai believes they have only enhanced the weapon and the blacksmith was the maker then they can complete the weave.

Same for making generic power wrought blades.

 

2

An Aes Sedai places a weave of flames (much like Morraine and her switch of fire) on her warder's blade.

She believes that she did not make the weapon, only enhanced it.

She can complete the weave.

She is however prudent and links the weave to the posession of the blade by her warder.

 

3

A passionate green sister can see no difference between making a sword with her own hands (she cannot do this) and enhancing her warder's swords with flames, she cannot and will not make the weaves for any weapon can be taken and used by a man.

 

4

Elayne Trakand places a powerful weave on the bow of birgitte so that every arrow fired delivers a powerful blast of fire, she links the weave to Birgitte and if the weapon leaves her hands then the weave dissapates immediately.

 

---

 

There are going to be other Aes Sedai that believe that any use of the power of Saidar in the hands of a man would break the oath "To make no weapon for one man to kill another" and there would be considerable discussion and attempts at censure for any sister that abused the oath in this way.

 

It's all a matter of what you can get away with.

 

Flames on a sword might be obvious but a power wrought weapon in the hands of a warder makes it a lot harder to prove that a sister has skirted their oath in this manner.

[Dagon Thyne]

Aes Sedai hedge and wiggle to get out of the oath about speaking no word that is not true. Few people I have talked to think much on how much the Aes Sedai would hedge and wiggle with the weapon oath should they feel like doing so.

 

1

An iron sword is made by a blacksmith, razor sharp to the best of his ability.

An Aes Sedai changes the sword to make it Heartstone.

If the Aes Sedai believes they have only enhanced the weapon and the blacksmith was the maker then they can complete the weave.

Same for making generic power wrought blades.

 

2

An Aes Sedai places a weave of flames (much like Morraine and her switch of fire) on her warder's blade.

She believes that she did not make the weapon, only enhanced it.

She can complete the weave.

She is however prudent and links the weave to the posession of the blade by her warder.

 

3

A passionate green sister can see no difference between making a sword with her own hands (she cannot do this) and enhancing her warder's swords with flames, she cannot and will not make the weaves for any weapon can be taken and used by a man.

 

4

Elayne Trakand places a powerful weave on the bow of birgitte so that every arrow fired delivers a powerful blast of fire, she links the weave to Birgitte and if the weapon leaves her hands then the weave dissapates immediately.

 

---

 

There are going to be other Aes Sedai that believe that any use of the power of Saidar in the hands of a man would break the oath "To make no weapon for one man to kill another" and there would be considerable discussion and attempts at censure for any sister that abused the oath in this way.

 

It's all a matter of what you can get away with.

 

Flames on a sword might be obvious but a power wrought weapon in the hands of a warder makes it a lot harder to prove that a sister has skirted their oath in this manner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have another one that can be added to your list. 

 

Say an Aes Sedai was raised a blackmith's daughter and learned to forge swords.  The oath is against using the one power to create weapons.  She coud forge the sword by hand and enhance it with the onme power if she viewed the enhancement seperate from the actual forging.

[Blackhoof]

I should have thought of that.

 

[Giganos]

Um Dagon Thyme, I think you might have missed the mark a bit there.

 

The oath doesn't mention making a weapon with the power, just making a weapon for one man to kill another.

 

The Aes Sedai could have made the weapon before she took the oaths but not after, she would find herself incapapable of weilding a hammer at a forge if she thought she were about to make anything that could be used as a weapon that a man could use.

 

A sneaky way to make a weapon would be to fashion one who's grip was unsuited to any hand but a woman's or a boy's but as grips can be replaced this would be a stretch that could see the oathbreaker choking on her own tongue.

 

If the weapon were power wrought and one piece this could work, but would depend on the frame of mind of the Aes Sedai.

 

Of course it doesn't stop them manufacturing fancloth or enhancing the armour plates of their warders to withstand blows better than any normal steel.

 

Tricksome beasts those Aes Sedai ;)

[Giganos]

non trivial addendum

 

Aes Sedai can make a weapon such as a catapult stone that explodes. (trolloc attack on the two rivers)

 

It cannot be used by any one man as the catapult must be operated by a team to be effective. (though I guess it could be fired by 1 man)

 

If the catapult misfired or something went wrong in the loading the catapult stones would have definitely killed the two rivers catapult operators.

 

Other weapons could be made if they required more than one person in order to kill.

 

So seige engines are allowed.

[Blackhoof]

Actually, they only enhanced the projectiles, and the catapults were used against shadowspawn, therefore legal.

 

But you have a point with the needing multiple people to fire it.

[Dagon Thyne]

Um Dagon Thyme, I think you might have missed the mark a bit there.

 

The oath doesn't mention making a weapon with the power, just making a weapon for one man to kill another.

 

The Aes Sedai could have made the weapon before she took the oaths but not after, she would find herself incapapable of weilding a hammer at a forge if she thought she were about to make anything that could be used as a weapon that a man could use.

 

A sneaky way to make a weapon would be to fashion one who's grip was unsuited to any hand but a woman's or a boy's but as grips can be replaced this would be a stretch that could see the oathbreaker choking on her own tongue.

 

If the weapon were power wrought and one piece this could work, but would depend on the frame of mind of the Aes Sedai.

 

Of course it doesn't stop them manufacturing fancloth or enhancing the armour plates of their warders to withstand blows better than any normal steel.

 

Tricksome beasts those Aes Sedai ;)

 

 

ye the oath is about creating weapons...but using the one power to enhance the weapon is not making it.....so the oath doesn'tr count there, unless the aes sedai doing it thinks it should.

[bubbified]

Ya the oaths are so full of holes, they must've intentionally been designed to make people think they restrict AS, but with the knowledge that AS will find tons of ways to get around them almost completely.

[Dagon Thyne]

Ya the oaths are so full of holes, they must've intentionally been designed to make people think they restrict AS, but with the knowledge that AS will find tons of ways to get around them almost completely.

I think the Oaths were originally ccreated in order to get people to trust Aes Sedai.  The Aes Sedai believed that the world could never possibally surive without them, but the fact is they are the ones who could not stop their drive to become stronger long enough to question whether drilling a giant hole into the Dark One's prison was actually a good idea. 

 

They brought on the Breaking and started the War of Power.....I say fuck the Aes Sedai.

[bubbified]

Its funny, it was a woman who drilled the hole.  And it was the women who wanted to use the Kohden Kal.  I think It might be comparable to atomic bombs from today, except with reversed gender association.  I don't think many women of our world think of women as being responsible for thinking up and wanting to use stuff like that.

[Blackhoof]

because they werent.

 

i seriously doubt that any women held a position in the Manhattan Project high enough that they fully knew what this weapon could do.

 

that was the way of the world up until a few decades ago, and it has gotten better.

[mb]

Its funny, it was a woman who drilled the hole.

Actually, more than just "a woman"; it was a group of channelers, both genders.

 

 

Choedan, not Kohden.

 

[Durinax]

its funny how ineffective this oath is,

 

all a AS has to do is convince herself it is a tool or hunting equipment. and you cannot say that because it potentially could be used to kill a man tehy couldnt/shouldnt rand could kill someone with the cups they are making

[gambril]

Aes Sedai and the Three Oaths sworn on a binder and literally binding themselves to said oaths is one the most intersting little plots in WoT to me; and one I hope is at least addressed in some fashion or another before the end of the series otherwise it will be extremely disapointing to me.  Putting all evidence aside, am I really expected to believe that people are going to willingly and proudly give up half their lives for the title of Aes Sedai?  Given the choice of current Randland, I'm far more inclined to choose to associate myself with the Wise Ones, The Kin or even the Windfinders simply due to the fact that I won't be giving up half of my life.  Elayne and Nynaeve have shown that there is no need for the oath rod.  Ask yourself this, do you consider Nynaeve and Elayne to not be Aes Sedai due to this or just ignore this and actually respect them more than an 'actual' Aes Sedai who has bound themselves?

 

This leads to the next part of it which is when reading Nynaeve and Elayne's PoV's they actually question themselves and their dedication to the Three Oaths.  They quite regularly remind themselves to follow the Three Oaths.  Now switch to any other Aes Sedai PoV and you don't see this.  The reason is simple.  Binding themselves to the Three Oaths removes this questioning of oneself and dedication to said oaths.  After all, when you're bound to them it erases this questioning of oneself.  The point is, Elayne and Nynaeve will potentially question their actions whereas an 'official' Aes Sedai have been shown time and time again that they do not have this ability.  Aes Sedai mentality is, as long as the Three Oaths don't prevent it then the morality of it is A-Ok.

 

 

The moment Elayne and Nynaeve are coerced by Egwene into swearing these oaths on their criminal binder is the moment Elayne and Nynaeve lose all credibility in my eyes.  So if they are asked to do this, isn't this basically just another way of Egwene saying, "Hey now that you're here you need to go swear on the Oath Rod otherwise myself and all other Aes Sedai will believe you to be a liar"  Of course the most rational response is, "So you're going to require me to give up half my life for assurances that I won't outright lie to you?  I'm sorry but I was raised to believe that trust is earned and not something that can simply be purchased.  You can either trust me, learn to trust me or not"  Or picture Egwene saying this to Amys at their next meeting.  Egwene trust Amys without having been sworn to a binder yet she can't trust other Aes Sedai without said binding?

 

In TGS at their second dinner Egwene tells Elaida that she had sworn the Three Oaths in her heart and to her that was far more dear.  Then a week later goes and swears on the 'Oath Rod'.  Does this not seem incongruent at all?  All the evidence is there for the taking for anyone with half a brain to realize these things and use the binder for it's intended purpose.  I've only really given it a pass for now because I think RJ intends to use this in a more dramatic fashion/revelation but if it isn't used, like I said it will be extremely disapointing.

 

 

[Dagon Thyne]

Its funny, it was a woman who drilled the hole.  And it was the women who wanted to use the Kohden Kal.  I think It might be comparable to atomic bombs from today, except with reversed gender association.  I don't think many women of our world think of women as being responsible for thinking up and wanting to use stuff like that.

 

 

Actually I recall that it was a joint effort by certain male and female Aes Sedai to drill the bore...I do agree about everythig else...perhaps if the females were willing to help reseal the DO, he would not have able to lash out and taint the male half.