Other than Cadsuane...

[delathi]

Is there a female character in the books who has NOT been beaten, stripped or humiliated in some way?

 

or, another way of asking,

 

Is the WoT actually just a nifty story designed to give context to Jordan's B&D kink?

 

Seriously, is there any primary or secondary female character who hasn't been paddled, spanked, embarrassingly naked or the like?

 

And, although it hasn't been explicitly mentioned, Cadsuane is Aes Sedai, so it would be assumed that she was at one point a novice, which means a visit to the principal's office and a spell with the ruler... I mean, the Mistress of Novices and her shoe.

[Durinax]

Sorilea, Amys, and most of the Aiel WOs

[byondrch]

Sorilea, Amys, and most of the Aiel WOs

 

nonsense

 

All the WO run naked to Rhuidean

[Durinax]

Sorilea, Amys, and most of the Aiel WOs

 

nonsense

 

All the WO run naked to Rhuidean

thats not in the books though, the original poster explicitely said in the books.

 

another is egwenes mom

[Hadilmir]

"The primary guidelines followed by medieval parents in training their children were from the Bible. Scolding was considered ineffectual, and cursing a child was a terrible thing.[5] In general, the use of corporal punishment was as a disciplinary action taken to shape behavior, not a pervasive dispensing of beatings for no reason. Corporal punishment was undoubtedly the norm. The medieval world was a dangerous place, and it could take harsh measures to prepare a child to live in it. Pain was the medieval way of illustrating that actions had consequences."

 

Randland is a pre-Renaissance world. For the time period of RJ's writings this was the norm, stop being an idiot.

[lsm]

moiraine?(unless she gets it in new springs...)

[redarm]

I'm pretty sure Moraine is naked in sweat tent at one time or another.

[Crael123]

moraine was naked coming back from ruidean

[divinorum]

I read an interview with Jordan, can't remember which one, where he said something like "all females in the story are based on my wife". Perhaps the spankings and naked humiliations in the books were his way of venting his frustrations with his wife without going to jail?

[redarm]

Though it isn't said what specifically happens, and it happens outside the time frame of the books, Cadsuane does suffer some humiliation by a wilder shortly after attaining the shawl.  Could be she was spanked by said wilder. Maybe a kaked spanking.  Who knows.  But it seems everyone has there moment.  Even the guys.  How many men in the series have gotten through without being poked full of holes or being called a wollheaded idiot or the like by all the women cranky from there embarrassing moments.

[Agitel]

Is there a female character in the books who has NOT been beaten, stripped or humiliated in some way?

 

or, another way of asking,

 

Is the WoT actually just a nifty story designed to give context to Jordan's B&D kink?

 

Seriously, is there any primary or secondary female character who hasn't been paddled, spanked, embarrassingly naked or the like?

 

And, although it hasn't been explicitly mentioned, Cadsuane is Aes Sedai, so it would be assumed that she was at one point a novice, which means a visit to the principal's office and a spell with the ruler... I mean, the Mistress of Novices and her shoe.

 

I'm sure all the boys were too, in the past.

 

Nynaeve speaks of paddling bottoms often enough.

[delathi]

 

Randland is a pre-Renaissance world. For the time period of RJ's writings this was the norm, stop being an idiot.

 

Stripped, arms bound behind the back, whipped and forced to march miles through the snow was the norm?

Being turned into no better than a dog with an a'dam was the norm?

Naked and running circles around a camped army as punishment was the norm?

Hanging naked by the ankles from a ship's rigging was the norm?

 

I'm just saying that RJ seemed to have a bit of a kink to him, that and an unhealthy affinity for stand lamps.

 

[Agitel]

 

Randland is a pre-Renaissance world. For the time period of RJ's writings this was the norm, stop being an idiot.

 

Stripped, arms bound behind the back, whipped and forced to march miles through the snow was the norm?

Being turned into no better than a dog with an a'dam was the norm?

Naked and running circles around a camped army as punishment was the norm?

Hanging naked by the ankles from a ship's rigging was the norm?

 

I'm just saying that RJ seemed to have a bit of a kink to him, that and an unhealthy affinity for stand lamps.

 

 

Actually, I think those were the norm, except replace a'dam with collar or chains and you got human slavery.

[delathi]

 

Randland is a pre-Renaissance world. For the time period of RJ's writings this was the norm, stop being an idiot.

 

Stripped, arms bound behind the back, whipped and forced to march miles through the snow was the norm?

Being turned into no better than a dog with an a'dam was the norm?

Naked and running circles around a camped army as punishment was the norm?

Hanging naked by the ankles from a ship's rigging was the norm?

 

I'm just saying that RJ seemed to have a bit of a kink to him, that and an unhealthy affinity for stand lamps.

 

 

Actually, I think those were the norm, except replace a'dam with collar or chains and you got human slavery.

 

And yet, in the WoT, only the a'dam would be the equivalent to slavery.

An argument can be made for the Shaido version of gai'shan.

[Durinax]

 

Randland is a pre-Renaissance world. For the time period of RJ's writings this was the norm, stop being an idiot.

 

Stripped, arms bound behind the back, whipped and forced to march miles through the snow was the norm?

Being turned into no better than a dog with an a'dam was the norm?

Naked and running circles around a camped army as punishment was the norm?

Hanging naked by the ankles from a ship's rigging was the norm?

 

I'm just saying that RJ seemed to have a bit of a kink to him, that and an unhealthy affinity for stand lamps.

 

 

Actually, I think those were the norm, except replace a'dam with collar or chains and you got human slavery.

 

And yet, in the WoT, only the a'dam would be the equivalent to slavery.

An argument can be made for the Shaido version of gai'shan.

aiel also trade non welcome people in the waste to Shara as slaves

[Hadilmir]

Stripped, arms bound behind the back, whipped and forced to march miles through the snow was the norm?

This is still done to prisoners of war today.

Being turned into no better than a dog with an a'dam was the norm?

Do you not understand the concept of slavery?

Naked and running circles around a camped army as punishment was the norm?

Nudity was not any part of that punishment, it would have been harder to run holding a blanket around yourself, and the Aiel have little modesty anyway, so naked it was.

Hanging naked by the ankles from a ship's rigging was the norm?

Long ago, rulers who were overthrown were often chained naked on the way to their executions.

 

 

Just stop being stupid about this...

[JayJay]

I think its pretty obvious the OP hasn't read any George R.R. Martin, RJ's writing is rated PG against the things that happen to the females in Ice and Fire.

[Mr Ares]

Randland is a pre-Renaissance world. For the time period of RJ's writings this was the norm, stop being an idiot.

Stripped, arms bound behind the back, whipped and forced to march miles through the snow was the norm?

Being turned into no better than a dog with an a'dam was the norm?

Naked and running circles around a camped army as punishment was the norm?

Hanging naked by the ankles from a ship's rigging was the norm?

Yup. Back in my day, if you couldn't walk twenty miles to school through snow ten feet deep, dragging a sleigh and being whipped all the way, uphill (and uphill on the return journey as well), you'd be considered a failure. The sort of person who could only expect to get into a dump like Oxford, if you made it University at all. I think those who see all the spanking as evidence of a fetish say more about themselves than about RJ. That said, it's a pretty dull fetish. Now, if you had some razor wire...

[Malruhn]

One of the bigger failings of humanity, especially in Western civilizations, is hubris.  We are a damned, over-proud species.

 

It helps with the development of our psyches to have humility - and if we aren't willing to learn it (like ALL the characters in Randland!), we must be humiliated to learn it.

 

They aren't willing, so they are humiliated.  Look at how they interact with others AFTER their shaming!! They ALL have become more humane and empathetic... at least in thought if not in deed.

 

Besides, except for one instance, I have NEVER picked up on a hint of ANY sexualization of the beatings.  The sole exception was when somebody or other (Perrin?) found a female corpse strung up on a wagon wheel, and the description of the nude body hinted at it being sexually molested.  I believe the perpetrator was Fain, but don't hold me to that.

 

No, I don't support the theory that teh books are covers for S&M fanfic.

[delathi]

I think its pretty obvious the OP hasn't read any George R.R. Martin, RJ's writing is rated PG against the things that happen to the females in Ice and Fire.

 

Yes I have, but this isn't a G.R.R.M. forum.

 

I'm just making the observation that these books, while not completely misogynistic, do have a strong element of 'strip and humiliate the women' in them.

 

And stand lamps.

If you removed all references to stand lamp, mirrored stand lamp and gilded stand lamp, the series would be a whole book shorter.

[Malruhn]

While I don't subscribe to your S&M theory, I fully agree about the stand lamps.

 

May I also offer a similar comment about chairs/seats/thrones?

 

Dump both, and we'd be left with a trilogy!!  :D

[Jonas Dagaard]

No, I don't support the theory that teh books are covers for S&M fanfic.

agreed. 

 

 

...far as the stand lamps, just one of those things he really likes letting us know about, with just about everything else in the world...lamps, chair, tables, rugs, wall hangings, the funky lil table clothes in the far right corner of the rooms with just a hint of dust that hadn't seen use in years......~

[Malruhn]

(Malruhn speaking in a hushed whisper)

 

I may claim to dislike it publicly, but it's the descriptions of the stupid stuff that I live in the books.  The damnable collapsing chair that Egwene used when the Salidar Rebels were marching made the whole thing seem more REAL to me.

 

And those darned stand lamps - several hundred years ago, lighting was done by torch or candles that were on mantles or sconces - and if you had enough money to show off, you bought a "totally wasteful" stand lamp.  It's a way of showing how much money the people had to blow on single-use items... like the development of soup spoons, salad forks and butter knives.  "Oooh, look at how rich _I_ am! I have enough money for repetatively redundent useless items!"

 

Okay, I'm done... darned stand lamps and chairs!!

[featherxquill]

 

I think there is a huge difference between being beaten/humiliated and simply being naked. Moiraine and the Wise Ones were naked in the sweat tents, and on their way in to Rhuidean, but that's not the same as being humiliated. At times, I think female nakedness is an empowering thing in the WoT universe. Aes Sedai that remove their clothes to travel through ter'angreal (for practical reasons, I imagine, as much as symbolic ones) or bear their breasts in the Hall of the Tower during the raising of an Amyrlin. It seems to me to be as much about sisterhood as it does about ritual - 'we come to each other bare', and the like.

 

As for the whole BDSM thing, heh. I don't think a beating has ever been sexualised in the books, but I WILL say that I fail to see how it could not become that way in some cases. Siuan and Gareth, specifically. It is mentioned more than once that he 'put her over his knee' when she disobeyed him too far, and I honestly don't see how something like that could fail to become sexually charged between a man and a woman who are clearly attracted to each other to start with, even if they are in denial.

[Tel Janin]

I can't really see anyone handing out the whoopin's to either Alsbet Luhhan or Daise Congar.  Them gal's're the whoopers, not the whoopies.  :D

 

Sorry.  I waxed hick there for a second.  I'm back now.  ;D