padan fain a new thread?

[seoman]

i don´t realy know what padan fain is up to, but what do you think about the role he will play in the last battle?, is he a new thread in the pattern, something different that had never existed before?, how can he exists, he is touched by two evils like the cleansing of saidin or the two never healing wounds of rand?

[MetalMonkeyMood]

Honestly speaking, I don't think that there can be anything new in the pattern. Everything repeats itself, and thousands of years ago the exact same things almost definately happened, Padan Fain and all. For example, I think Rand is destined to win, but what interests me is how he wins, what will the next age look like and what will be the results of the final battle on all the characters. Ther can be no new threads in the pattern, because they have all already existed before, and will exist again in the future.

And Padan's being touched by two evils at once has made him the craziest thing this side of Shayol Ghul, in case you hadn't noticed :P

[Saa]

I'm not so sure that nothing new can not happen. If that were true the pattern would not need Ta'veren. Free will, even to a small degree, gaurantees something new will happen.

 

RJ himself stated that each Age Lace when compared to the previous Age Lace would seem alike from a distance, upon closer inspection the differences become very apparent.

 

As for Padan Fain, he is RJ's wild card and, according to RJ, has sort of side stepped the pattern. Exactly what he will do in AMOL I don't know, though I am confident that he is going to cause someone some grief. Likely Rand or the Forsaken.

[padainfain]

Well he hates the forsaken and the Dark one almost as much as he hates Rand. Though i think he just hates everyone and everything. But unless he gets real close, real sneaky like, I dont think he can really stand a chance against Rand / Forsaken, they could wrap him in air or blow him to pieces before he came close enough to slash with his dagger.

[seoman]

I believe new threads can be added to the pattern, arthur hawkwing told hurin that new heros can be added to the wheel and atached to the horn, that means a new hero that had never existed before, or a thread that changes to become something different.

and i think padan fain is much more dangerous that he seems, he can invoke mashadar and when he last confront rand he could stab him with his dagger and rand survived by a hair (thanks to dammer and his never healing wound).

If everything is written and nothing changes there is no freedom to choose, there would be no way to change the pattern, and people only behaves as the script say... so the creator gave people nothing just a film.

I think the creator gave the people the oportunity to choose and build a life with poeple choices, and that means the posibility to change your thread and thus the pattern.

[rochaid]

there can be changes to a certain extent in the pattern,loail explains it to rand in the EotW,if someone wanted to move to the city instead of farming,the pattern would accept that small change,but not if that farmer wanted to be a king,as rand put it.and the pattern of every age is slightly different,as was already said.and maybe the pattern puts people like hurin in circumstances which forces them to show their heroics

[KaptainKaos]

I am not sure at all what Padan Fain is up to or even if my theory is correct but here's my take. He seems very much like Golum to me from Lord of the Rings. He has been around since the first book as a character that needs to be killed but somehow he stays alive. He chases after Rand like a hound because of his 'gifts' from the Dark One in the beginning then starts trying to kill Rand. He is really more like an annoyance in the shadows than a true threat to Rand (some exceptions but just imagine Rand in a one on one battle with Fain where Rand can channel, boom Fain's dead.) But most of all he now has the capacity to do true damage not only to good but to the shadow. Does this have a familar ring to it? Maybe not but somehow maybe Fain will do what Golum did and inadvertently help the Light in some way... just wanted to throw that out there.

[Vicious Circle]

I've always wondered, if Rand Balefires Fain, would that remove the Shadar Logoth half of the wound in his side?

[Musenge]

Was it him that caused the illusion of the two resurected darkfriend Ashaman in Far Madding or was that a convienient timing thing? I know he has all types of powers but can he make illusions too?

[Vicious Circle]

I thought that was a dead walking thing.

[demonspawn]

I've always wondered' date=' if Rand Balefires Fain, would that remove the Shadar Logoth half of the wound in his side?[/quote']

 

Quite possibly but consider the length of time that has passed since. It would have to be some SERIOUS balefire also think of all the people who've came in contact with Fain since and the repercussions of Fain being removed from the pattern, things would get pretty messy.

[Vicious Circle]

I was thinking more along the lines of if Fain and his dagger no longer existed there would be no trace of the Shadar Logoth taint in the universe except for Rand's wound. Not necessarily blasting Fain back to the day he stabbed Rand. Maybe like how the sisters had to take the dagger away from Mat to heal him?

I know it's totally weak.

[demonspawn]

I see where you are coming from, but Fain would still have cut Rand. Unless he was removed from the pattern before the attack, the taint would still be in Rand.

 

That's just my opinion mind, I mean, it's been a while since I used Balefire to remove someone from the pattern and my memory isn't what it used to be!

[Vicious Circle]

Good point. :lol:

That reminds me, when I was first reading TEoTW a friend asked me which character I thought he would be, I jokingly told him he'd be Padan Fain, so now the worse Fain gets, the funnier that joke gets. :lol:

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Quote "Was it him that caused the illusion of the two resurected darkfriend Ashaman in Far Madding or was that a convienient timing thing? I know he has all types of powers but can he make illusions too?"

 

Yes it was. It was Kisman and somebody else, and Rand knew it was an illusion. Im sure its from Rands POV and its says "the illusion of dead men walking dissappeared" or romething like that

[Luckers]

Indeed. It was also him that caused the incident with the dead family in the Great Hunt.

[Mat Comes With The Dawn]

Fain doesn't know how or what he's doing, or what he's capable of, except for a few things.

 

Anyways, Padan Fain hates Rand, but the Shadar Logoth / Mordeth in him doesn't care. Padan Fain hates the DO for making him what he is, and Shadar Logoth / Mordeth is very much hostile to the shadow.

 

Honestly, I think that given the chance, Fain might help somehow in assaulting Shayol Ghul, and that he only needs Rand to lure him there.

[Luckers]

He seems to at least know something of what he is doing... he has some control, and has experimented with it in the past.

[Mat Comes With The Dawn]

He's got several aces up his sleeve, and he doesn't know how many. Does that work for you? He does find out some new things he can do.

[Iceman]

Whoa... here's the spoiler idea of the decade!

 

Fain goes after Rand... follows him all the way to Shayol Ghul and stabs the Dark One first, then Rand with his Dagger... killing them Both!

 

Moraine hits Fain with a small beam of balefire... Rand and the Dark One come back, Rand is Ok, but the Dark One has a cut still. He doesn't die, but is weakened enough that Rand and the Aes Sedai seal him up again in the Bore! BooYeah!

 

Sorry RJ, didn't mean to spoil the surprise. :P

[KaptainKaos]

LOL, I hope that was supposed to be funny.

[Taishar Manetheren]

When Rand cleandes Saidin and as a result destroyed Shadar logoth, he thought that the wound in his side from Fain's dagger will lessen but it hadnt happend as far as we know.

 

Do you think it will affect the mordeth part of Fain or the powers of the dagger in some way?

[cannon]

No, what happens is that Rand finds the Ring of Tamyrlin and begins calling it his "precious". Fain, jealous of the new possession, becomes obsessed with taking the ring from Rand. Rand is standing at the Pit of Doom and Fain surprises him from behind. They wrestle and Fain comes away with the ring. In his celebration, Fain clumsily falls over into the Bore...

 

The evil of Mordeth and the evil of the Dark one cancel each other out and explode, causing the Pit of Doom to erupt (it's a volcano). Rand is left alone on the side of the mountain, somehow surviving the 1000 degree air temperatures that accompany violent eruptions, but is miraculously rescued by the Eagles before the lava finishes him off.

[KaptainKaos]

Quote from Tai'shar Manetheren:

Do you think it will affect the mordeth part of Fain or the powers of the dagger in some way?

 

Robert Jordan answered this question somewhere but I can't find it so I will just summarize what I remember of his explaination. He said that the power of Shadar Logoth was equally powerful in every piece of Shadar Logoth, he even mentioned if someone were to get a splinter from a piece of wood from Shadar Logoth the effect would be similar to the effect of the dagger (maybe a little more prolonged since the splinter most likely wouldn't touch as much surface area as the dagger but still similar). So with this in mind both Fain and the dagger he has are from Shadar Logoth and therefore as long as one of them exist the power of Shadar Logoth exists and remains as it always has.

[Iceman]

LOL' date=' I hope that was supposed to be funny.[/quote']

 

Well, it was supposed to be a little funny, but Think of all the prophesies it would fulfill!

Rand Needs to die to live...

Moraine needs to be there...

ummm...uh...

It solves how Fain's story ends and Resealing the Dark One... It's all good!