Flying with the One Power-- It can be done

[Xeonicus]

Well, in the WoT roleplaying game, there is a weave for flying. I know its just the roleplaying game though, and not necessarily true to the lore, but take it for what you will...

[One Man]

(First Post, yay...in a Flying thread...yay)

 

Okay. I'll use a scenario, remaining within the framework of RJ's world: you can channel; you walk up to a bronze door; you knock the door down with a fist of Air; you fling the door around with flows of Air, cracking the skulls of a few random Darkfriends; you let the door fall at your feet when all the fiends have fallen; you decide to stand on the bronze door; you lift the door with flows of Air, which won't be a problem since lifting very heavy things with the Power isn't beyond many channelers, and you've already proven you can toss the thing around like a throwing star; your added weight shouldn't be a problem either.

 

And you're Flying. As far as sustained Flight, Rand and others have channeled for hours--sometimes an entire day--at a time. I've been on jetliners that take less time over a few hundred miles. And lifting stuff doesn't seem to require an extreme amount of power; a middling Aes Sedai should be able to lift a door, and the extra hundred-or so pounds of herself, for a good long time.

 

Clearly RJ wants channelers to be powerful, not godlike. He doesn't want them to be a bunch of demi-Creators and mini-Dark Ones running around worrying about necklines and canoodling. So they can't touch themselves with very many flows (if any, aside from that huge damn pillar of flame LTT croaks himself with:P) They can't Heal themselves, lest they be invincible, and they can't lift themselves with Air, lest they scoot around the skies dropping gigantic balls of fire and lightning on cities and goats and such.

 

But they can lift things with the power. And they can stand. That's about all you need to hop on the Magic Door. No self-touching of the Flows, no apparent contradictions of what RJ has laid out. Unless of course the Man Himself smacks down the Magic Door and me in one swell foop. Then again, there's no way in the world I'm the first guy to come up with the Magic Door, so it had to have been dismissed by now. I think Magic Door would work, so long as the flows never touched the channeler--just whatever the channeler was standing on.

 

((But, it may just be lifting yourself with the OP is somehow mentally impossible/blocked, i.e. similar to trying to lift a pebble while falling from seventy stories and turning somersaults. Which direction is "lifting" when you're falling and turning head-over-heels?))

 

So, yeah...Thanks for reading...

 

"Rand + Callandor + Choedan Kal = No More Bad Guys"

[clensedsource]

I belive that they use a thin platform of rock or air and move that, they dont touch them with the flow...

[Kaznen]

Traveling would be better for general transportation. But, you can't do strafing runs against trollocs with a gatway. Plus think how cool it would look if the Asha'man, in full black coat uniform, started flying. The AS would pee their dresses.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Two things.

 

One, if you use a door, or a platform, or a board, or any equipment, you are combining channeling with some form of tool. I've already said that can be done, I gave an example of it (Sho-wings=moving a tool with the power).

 

Two ... regarding your comparison with the door. Say you're strong enough physically to lift the door. You can pick it up, whack people with it, throw it around. Now, stand on the door, and try to pick it up with yourself on it. If you can't picture the result from my description, then I will never be able to explain this to you.

[clensedsource]

I think the sho-wings were made for people to use without the power i mean that it still runs on it but it dosent need a chanaler to operate

[Kaznen]

With a rope and pulley you could lift a platform you're standing on.

[RobertAlexWillis]

You are correct, clensedcourse, the Sho-wings probably were operated by non-channelers by tapping into what Moghedien called the "standing flows". She mentioned these in passing, but it significant because it means that channeled Power links had been set up for everyone to tap into. In that sense, a Sho-wing could qualify as a form of ter'angreal. But, whether activated by a channeler or non-channeler, it is still dependent on the Power to operate.

 

And Kaznen, thank you for making my point. In order to lift yourself on a platform, you require another tool of some kind.

[clensedsource]

There may be some new way that fans havent thought of. For example, it may flows of fire and use heat to lift the person up (of course it may have another flow of fire to stop the heat from harming the user.)

[Jedimuppet]

There may be some new way that fans havent thought of. For example, it may flows of fire and use heat to lift the person up (of course it may have another flow of fire to stop the heat from harming the user.)

 

I still have yet to see why one could not wrap himself in a cocoon of air, and use an air/fire weave for thrust. You would need no contact with the ground.

J

[KaptainKaos]

I'm just gonna say it again because no one seems to get the point. This question is answered in the FAQ library of this site under open questions so there is no need to really keep saying I can't see why flying isn't possible or anything at all because it has already been put up as a question on the FAQ at this site. Below I copied and pasted the questions and answers so everyone can see.

 

Can a channeler use the One Power to fly?

According to Robert Jordan, absolutely positively no. A person cannot use the One Power to lift themselves off the ground. In practice, there are certainly ways to get around this. One can build a bridge of Air if it is not too long or too far from the ground to anchor it. Likewise, one could use the One Power to, say, spin the propeller of an airplane.

 

If it's not possible to use the One Power to fly then why did Moiraine say Rand could have rediscovered Flying?

It's not possible to fly in the sense that one cannot levitate oneself up and fly with the One Power, but in the Age of Legends Aes Sedai used the One Power to run flying machines, e.g., turn the propellers on a plane or force air through a jet engine. Mechanically powered vehicles are unknown in the current Age so the Aes Sedai of the present are left with a conundrum.

[RobertAlexWillis]

That has been my point all along. There are ways in which a channeler could raise him/herself into the air and move, mostly by using the Power on something material around them. The Age of Legends Sho-wings are a direct example of that principle. But a superman style "up up and away", using the Power directly on themselves, is not possible, because of the problems associated with affecting yourself with your own flows.

[Jedimuppet]

That has been my point all along. There are ways in which a channeler could raise him/herself into the air and move' date=' mostly by using the Power on something material around them. The Age of Legends Sho-wings are a direct example of that principle. But a superman style "up up and away", using the Power directly on themselves, is not possible, because of the problems associated with affecting yourself with your own flows.[/quote']

 

Hmm. If you're arguing that weaving air around yourself is the same as using the power on yourself, then you probably have some explaining to do with people stepping on platforms of air, etc, as well as people weaving wards around themselves.

 

I lump these together, because if for instance, you wove solid air around yourself to provide some sort of frame for flying, that would be conceptually similar to putting yourself in the middle of a ward, or providing yourself a platform of air, both of which we've seen, despite this prohibition of weaving on yourself.

 

And I'm sorry. I know RJ has commented on this, but I think this is an example of continuity failure in terms of accuracy with regards to physics.

J

[KaptainKaos]

I'm sure that a lot of rules that aren't in our physics were added to Robert Jordan's own laws of physics in the Wheel of Time and since before he became a writer he studied physics at the Citadel and worked as an engineer for several years I am pretty sure he would have made a sound system in this regard and even if he didn't this is fantasy and how much more interesting would the last book be if some of the characters could fly around like superman? Not much more interesting to me at least. What I am really trying to say is that I am not going to take the time to find it in any interview but I am sure Robert Jordan could explain exactly to you why people cannot fly using the one power and relate his answer using physics. If you have ever seen any of the Q and A sessions with Robert Jordan he knows exactly what he is talking about on every aspect of his world. There are only a few times when I have seen him type/say hold on and let me refer to my notes and the one I can remember was when it was some crazy bogus question about the Aiel greetings and salutations.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Hmm. If you're arguing that weaving air around yourself is the same as using the power on yourself, then you probably have some explaining to do with people stepping on platforms of air, etc, as well as people weaving wards around themselves.

 

I lump these together, because if for instance, you wove solid air around yourself to provide some sort of frame for flying, that would be conceptually similar to putting yourself in the middle of a ward, or providing yourself a platform of air, both of which we've seen, despite this prohibition of weaving on yourself.

 

Actually, we haven't seen anyone raise themselves on a platform of air with the True Power. We saw OTHER people raise Egwene, we saw Siuan Sanche lift Nynaeve, and we saw Ishamael on a platform of air, but Ishamael doesn't use the One Power, he uses the True Power, different rules apply.

 

Lifting yourself with a framework of air is fundamentally different than creating a ward. Creating a ward is like building a fence. It is around you, but does not touch you. The framework of air would have to directly touch and support you.

[Jedimuppet]

Hmm. If you're arguing that weaving air around yourself is the same as using the power on yourself, then you probably have some explaining to do with people stepping on platforms of air, etc, as well as people weaving wards around themselves.

 

I lump these together, because if for instance, you wove solid air around yourself to provide some sort of frame for flying, that would be conceptually similar to putting yourself in the middle of a ward, or providing yourself a platform of air, both of which we've seen, despite this prohibition of weaving on yourself.

 

Actually, we haven't seen anyone raise themselves on a platform of air with the True Power. We saw OTHER people raise Egwene, we saw Siuan Sanche lift Nynaeve, and we saw Ishamael on a platform of air, but Ishamael doesn't use the One Power, he uses the True Power, different rules apply.

 

Lifting yourself with a framework of air is fundamentally different than creating a ward. Creating a ward is like building a fence. It is around you, but does not touch you. The framework of air would have to directly touch and support you.

 

What do you call the bridge of air Rand makes to the Seafolk ship in CoS? I can't see a qualitative difference between that and the air-frame discussed above, except that the frame would be more three dimensional.

J

[RobertAlexWillis]

You can anchor a bridge at both ends, making use of other, stable support points. Using a frame of air is lifting yourself independent of any support other than the Power.

 

If it is as easy as you suggest, then why have no channelers been able to do it? Obviously, there is SOME kind of problem with supporting yourself with the use of your ONLY own flows of the Power.

 

But hey, if it makes you feel better to think they could if they just tried hard enough, feel free. It's not like you need my permission anyway. I just think you're wrong.

[clensedsource]

 

Actually' date=' we haven't seen anyone raise themselves on a platform of air with the True Power. We saw OTHER people raise Egwene, we saw Siuan Sanche lift Nynaeve, and we saw Ishamael on a platform of air, but Ishamael doesn't use the One Power, he uses the True Power, different rules apply.

 

Lifting yourself with a framework of air is fundamentally different than creating a ward. Creating a ward is like building a fence. It is around you, but does not touch you. The framework of air would have to directly touch and support you.[/quote']

 

it has been said that the true power is usdt the one power drawn through the Dark One.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Said by whom?

[clensedsource]

I think it is in an early book. e.g. 1-5

[RobertAlexWillis]

Would you find that, please? I'm not even sure there is a reference to the existence of the True Power before The Fires of Heaven. Excepting Elan Morin's bit about "I follow a different power now" in the prologue to tEotW, and that doesn't reference it by name.

[Jedimuppet]

You can anchor a bridge at both ends, making use of other, stable support points. Using a frame of air is lifting yourself independent of any support other than the Power.

 

If it is as easy as you suggest, then why have no channelers been able to do it? Obviously, there is SOME kind of problem with supporting yourself with the use of your ONLY own flows of the Power.

 

But hey, if it makes you feel better to think they could if they just tried hard enough, feel free. It's not like you need my permission anyway. I just think you're wrong.

 

Sometimes I think you're missing my point on purpose. Why would you need to anchor a cocoon of air? It's being given lift properties by its very shape, and propulsion from the air/fire thrust weave would eliminate the need for "anchoring"

J

[RobertAlexWillis]

Sometimes I think you're missing my point on purpose. It won't work because you don't anchor it. The bridge works because you can anchor it. You don't anchor a flying "frame" to anything except the passenger, and if the passenger is yourself, then you have a problem if the flows can't touch you.

[clensedsource]

rember that weave that rand uses to protect him from the attack that I belive was by a forsaken posing as an asha'man. If you had an air hole in the top of it you wouldn't touch yourself with the weave. Anchoring is pointless. I think you can make the weave around something else without anchoring it.

[RobertAlexWillis]

... but if you don't anchor it to YOURSELF somehow, how is it going to PICK YOU UP so that you can FLY? How will the flows LIFT YOURSELF INTO THE AIR unless they TOUCH YOU somehow?

 

 

People, seriously, if it were that simple Aes Sedai would be zipping around left and right.