I Have Three WOT Questions That Have Bugged Me For a Looong Time

[The Fisher King]

They are all unrelated but trying to conserve space and didn't want to make a thread for each - thanks!

 

1 Has Mat ever been to Cairhein? (I have a secret good reason behind this question)

 

2 Is the Great Hunt still ongoing??? WE all know that it has been found...but THEY don't...It was a major theme through the first half od the series but we never hear it mentioned anymore.

 

3 Did Mr Jordan accidentally MAJORLY Spoil us when he said that one of the propsed Outrigger Novels would feature Mat and Tuon in Seanchan AFTER The Last Battle??? Doesn't that imply that they definitely make it and that it probably goes fairly well and that there is no need for suspense for worrying about if those two characters make it?

 

 

Fish

[HighLordXanthus]

1) yes he came there with ingtar while following the horn.  he arrived right after the trollics took back the horn from rand/loial/hurin at thier inn.  he went with rand to Barthanus's mansion as his servent to find where the horn and dagger went and followed it to the way gate.  then he came back with rand after returning from the waste, though I am not sure how much time he actually spent in the city as this is when he gathers the band of the red hand.

 

2) yes, as far as we know it is still ongoing, as we have run into several hunters for the horn.  many such hunters were hired as mercenaries by elayne in her bid for the andoran throne.

 

3) yes I would say that was a spoiler, but not supper major.  the dragon reborn is the only main character that we have something to suggest he will die, and we also have hits that there is a way for him to win the LB and survive (ala his questions to the finns).  if anything his living is fairly secure with the whole "to die and live again" prophesy and all.  not to mention that VERY few authors kill of core characters, so I would be very surprised to see rand/mat/perrin/egwene/nynaeve ect die.  yes i know there are authors who do this, but so far RJ has not done this once.  Becides Moiraine who we are next to certain will be rescued since KoD and before.

[The Fisher King]

Thanks alot, HLX - Especially concerning Number 1.

 

Yeah, that was in TGH...and only one of the best, coolest, and most interesting storylines in the series (imo) and I forget lol...but I'm glad you reminded me...thought I'd spotted Huuuuge inconsistency somewhere...lol.

 

Regarding your thoughts on Number 3...I stronlgly disagree with you... Fesit, Martin and The Fabulous and Underrated Melanie Rawn all kill of Scads of Main Characters routinely...just to name a few...

 

In fact, I would say the killing off of main characters is increasing in the genre...it seems like it is the new 'cool' thing to do among authors lol.

 

 

Fish

[HighLordXanthus]

Well, for killing characters, I dont like alot of todays writers of fantasy.  I think of Eddings, Tolkien, ect.  Jordan seems more common to these then more current authors.  To me a main character shouldnt die unless it serves a major plot point.  Like Dumbledore in harry potter, it specifically has a reason.  To me, if mat died, you might as well have thrown out half of the books.  Why build a bridge to get to the other side if you are never going to use it.  Now, major secondary characters can die with less impact on the story and serve the same purpose.  I could name a dozen characters that could die (not that I want them dead).  Rand will die, we know this.  But at the same time there are hints it will either be a fake, or he will resurrect some how.  And why would the path of the story change at this point, this many books in and having none of the major characters die.

[The Fisher King]

High Lord Xanthus Said: Well, for killing characters, I dont like alot of todays writers of fantasy.  I think of Eddings, Tolkien, ect.  Jordan seems more common to these then more current authors.  To me a main character shouldnt die unless it serves a major plot point.  Like Dumbledore in harry potter, it specifically has a reason.  To me, if mat died, you might as well have thrown out half of the books.  Why build a bridge to get to the other side if you are never going to use it.  Now, major secondary characters can die with less impact on the story and serve the same purpose.  I could name a dozen characters that could die (not that I want them dead).  Rand will die, we know this.  But at the same time there are hints it will either be a fake, or he will resurrect some how.  And why would the path of the story change at this point, this many books in and having none of the major characters die.

 

Fair points all...though I disagree that usually it is pointless to kill a main character...you used the example of Mat...Well, if Mat did die, he would still have served a major major point to The Story and to The Forces of Light by virtue of all that he had done before his death to help get the good guys where they needed to be...Also, its about the journey, not just the end result...If Mat dies on the first page of the next book, it would certainly Pi$$ me off, but it would not take away from  my enjoyment of his journey throughout the previous books...

 

Also, in terms of plot structure and predictability, I agree with you that I would put Jordan more on the level of like Eddings or Tolkien ... However, when it comes to a sense of 'realness', development of a world, and sheer writing skill used by the author, Jordan blows those guys away...

 

Ive really enjoyed the story.

 

JMO

 

 

Fish

[HighLordXanthus]

I do see your point.  When terry goodkind killed off someone halfway thru the series (someone i had grown more then fond of) I was pissed, but excepted it.  He didnt kill one of the main achors of the books though.  I know many here do not like egwene, but if she died in the next book, unless there was a very good reason I would lose all faith in the whole series.  You cannot have 20 years of build up, just to knock down the whole thing.  And she is secondary, though still major to the plot.  I could except nyneave getting the axe (although to me that would mean Lan would have to go soon after) because she is less integral to the plot.  Min, Avi and Elayne cannot be killed because the whole 3 in a boat prophesy.  Mat and Perrin I guess could die, but they would have to make it to the LB and fullfill thier destiny there.  Perrin needs the lead the wolves to TG, and mat has to lead rands armys with the canons ect.  RJ has woven a story here with dozens of characters that literally have to be there at the end.  I am not completely against killing main characters, but with the way RJ wrote these characters, there are many that simply cannot be killed with major damage to the plot as we now know it.

[The Fisher King]

but with the way RJ wrote these characters, there are many that simply cannot be killed with major damage to the plot as we now know it.

 

i totally agree with that...

 

 

Fish

[Zidel333]

but with the way RJ wrote these characters, there are many that simply cannot be killed with major damage to the plot as we now know it.

 

i totally agree with that...

 

 

Fish

 

Now, I read a quote from Brandon Sanderson the other week that said according to RJ's notes, tons of characters, including some main and apparently very surprising ones, will die. It was RJ's plan all along to be that Old Testament God and smite some, but he wanted to wait to the end for the most emotional impact. Very interesting that it was RJ and not BS that planned this. I'll see if I can find the quote in question.

 

My guess who's gonna die?: Rand, die and then reborn in some fashion, Min and/or Aveidha (With Rand dead, Min has no real purpose after that. Avi needed as a Wise Woman, but future of Aiel uncertain), Lan (Malkier is gone), Logain (his glory will be his sacriface in death), Birgette (she shouldn't be there yet anyway) etc. Elyane can't die because she has to rule future Andor/Cairhein, Tuon and Mat (re: Outriggers), Egwene (rule future White Tower), Dashiva Narishma (Blacktower?), Perrin and Faile (Rule future Borderlands) etc.

[Luckers]

Dashiva (Blacktower?),

 

Dashiva was Osen'gar, and is dead now.

[Dero]

Maybe zidel meant Narishma :P

[The Fisher King]

I think Avi and Davram are Toast.

 

I didn't think for a long time that Bashere would die...

 

But...lately, Im really embracing the whole ''Bashere goes out in a Blaze of Glory during Tarmon Gaidon'' idea...

 

 

Fish

[Dero]

Isn't Avi supposed to bear Rand some children?  Seems like a long time to have to wait for the last battle.

[The Fisher King]

True...I always forget about that.

 

 

Fish

[Dero]

I think that Min might die but i have no evidence as to why. I'm with you i think Bashere will die just not sure how.

[bigWalt]

Thanks alot, HLX - Especially concerning Number 1.

 

Yeah, that was in TGH...and only one of the best, coolest, and most interesting storylines in the series (imo) and I forget lol...but I'm glad you reminded me...thought I'd spotted Huuuuge inconsistency somewhere...lol.

The ability to forget is what allows us to enjoy rereading the books multiple times.

[Zidel333]

Dashiva (Blacktower?),

 

Dashiva was Osen'gar, and is dead now.

 

LMAFO. Opps. Yeah, I meant Narishma as he is one of the only 3 Asha'man that Rand trusts, and he retrieved Callandor. You know, thinking about that, sending one of your lackeys to get the 3rd strongest San'Angreal is a pretty trusting thing to do. I never gave it much thought until tonight. What does Rand know that we don't?

 

Anyway, someone needs to take over the future Black Tower after Mazrim Taim is disposed. Maybe Flinn, his Healing is pretty BAMF.

 

Re: Avi...hmmm. I forgot about the quintuplets. I'll modify my original message then.

[Mr Ares]

3 Did Mr Jordan accidentally MAJORLY Spoil us when he said that one of the propsed Outrigger Novels would feature Mat and Tuon in Seanchan AFTER The Last Battle??? Doesn't that imply that they definitely make it and that it probably goes fairly well and that there is no need for suspense for worrying about if those two characters make it?

No, it wasn't an accident. Yes, it does imply that they definitely make it, but that doesn't take away suspense. After all, there are far more interesting things to do to a character than kill him.... *Evil laugh*

 

3) yes I would say that was a spoiler, but not supper major.  the dragon reborn is the only main character that we have something to suggest he will die, and we also have hits that there is a way for him to win the LB and survive (ala his questions to the finns).  if anything his living is fairly secure with the whole "to die and live again" prophesy and all.  not to mention that VERY few authors kill of core characters, so I would be very surprised to see rand/mat/perrin/egwene/nynaeve ect die.  yes i know there are authors who do this, but so far RJ has not done this once.  Becides Moiraine who we are next to certain will be rescued since KoD and before.

So far being the key phrase.

 

Well, for killing characters, I dont like alot of todays writers of fantasy. I think of Eddings, Tolkien, ect. Jordan seems more common to these then more current authors. To me a main character shouldnt die unless it serves a major plot point. Like Dumbledore in harry potter, it specifically has a reason. To me, if mat died, you might as well have thrown out half of the books. Why build a bridge to get to the other side if you are never going to use it. Now, major secondary characters can die with less impact on the story and serve the same purpose. I could name a dozen characters that could die (not that I want them dead). Rand will die, we know this. But at the same time there are hints it will either be a fake, or he will resurrect some how. And why would the path of the story change at this point, this many books in and having none of the major characters die.

Character death is not something that is all that interesting in and of itself. If a book kills off loads of main characters, or none at all, I don't see it as automatically a positive or negative. If the author kills someone off for good reason, as with Dumbledore, then that's good. On the other hand, if a main character is killed off because the author just didn't know what to do with them, it's not good. Also, there are more interesting things to do with a character than kill them - look at Rand's arc across the series so far, starting out as a shepherd, then becoming a saviour, and increasingly insane and tyrannical, walled off from his emotions. Much better than if Rand had just died.If killing off Mat was done as a conclusion to his story arc, then it would be good. If it wasn't, just a random incident at the end, you might wonder why you spent so much tme following mat, only to have his life tossed away on an authorial whim. The ending needs to fit with what has come before in order for the end result to be satisfying.

[lsm]

i have questions about WOT that's bugged me for a long time too

 

what is a riding dress, 'skirts divided for riding'?

 

and why do characters use sand jars when writing?

 

[redarm]

i have questions about WOT that's bugged me for a long time too

 

what is a riding dress, 'skirts divided for riding'?

 

and why do characters use sand jars when writing?

 

 

To answer your first question, Yes.

 

Your second.... Sand was used to help set the ink.  To absorb the excess and aid in drying so a parchment wouldn't need to be left out to dry.  think of a fine sand.  Anything to heavy would just pick up ink and then drag it all over creating a nasty mess.

[Zidel333]

i have questions about WOT that's bugged me for a long time too

 

what is a riding dress, 'skirts divided for riding'?

 

and why do characters use sand jars when writing?

 

 

i have questions about WOT that's bugged me for a long time too

 

what is a riding dress, 'skirts divided for riding'?

 

and why do characters use sand jars when writing?

 

 

Divided skirts, sometimes called Cullotes in English, are dresses where they are form fitting at the waist, but are in fact increasingly wide and poofy pants, to give the resemble of the bottom half being a dress is split in half. This was done so that women could have a modest riding habit or outfit for horseback riding. I can't find a decent picture of a divided riding skirt, but here are some from someone's Historical Reenactment clothing line: http://www.witchesclosetcreations.com/custom_skirts.htm#Divided Riding Skirt/

 

You need to understand that in Randland they use essentially one form of saddles for horse riding: the Western and/or English Saddle, where you sit with your legs over both sides of the horse, that is the normal way to ride,

 

(ex: ).

 

Now, in Randland, we can assume they have similar historical mores as we did, where women with legs spread apart, or excessive showing of skin or form fitting clothing was considered indecent. So, women divide their skirts or dresses in such a way that makes sure they didn't show any skin. Why not use a regular dress to ride astride? Because they dress might bunch up and show too much skin. Think Nyneave or Egwene would ride like that? I don't think so.

 

(Ex: )

 

Randland women probably don't ride side saddle, because we haven't heard of it, but they do make clothing alteration for the same effect. Make sense? Here is a article from 1893 that talks about our real world equivalent:  http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C03E6DE1638E233A25750C1A9679D94639ED7CF

 

-----

 

Now, as for Sand jars hold sand. When the ink is still wet on the page, you sprinkle some sand and tease it along the paper to soak up the excess ink. Excess ink, obviously, causes the paper to get soaked, can cause letters and words to get blurry, and otherwise make your penmanship look terrible. And with sand, you can seal it, fold it, and otherwise store it as if you had waited until the ink dried. Trust me, sand would come in handy for quill writing....

[HighLordXanthus]

http://birchstreetclothing.com/images/product/backs/pdf/231.pdf

 

That is a pdf the has some nice drawings of divided skirts, though the looks slightly different then what RJ describes.