*9* Questions Were Asked of The Finn Folks...We Know *4* - What Were Other *5*?

[The Fisher King]

Well, way more than 9, lol, but pertaining to OUR Story, we have been made aware that The Dragon Reborn, The Trickster and Moirane Damodred have visited those Folks through Doorway Ter'angreal and that each asked 3 Questions ... 3X3 = 9.

 

We Know 4 For Certain. (Mat's 3, 1 of Rand's and 0 of Moirane Sedai's - Equalling 4 Known)

 

What Do You Think The Remaining 5 Were???

 

 

Fish

[Nae Bliss]

One of Moraines had to do with her "death", and another I'd imagine is that if Thom and, Mat take more than 3 people they would die or she would die. I can't think of what the others could've been though ???

[The Fisher King]

Here Are MY Guesses:

 

Moirane Damodred's

 

1 Do I Have To Go Kill Lanfear To Save The Dragon Reborn?

 

2 Do I Have To Go Into Finn Land as a Captive To Gain Necessary Knowledge For The Light?

 

3 If I Do Number 2, Will There Be A Way For Me To Escape?

 

 

Rand Al Thor's

 

1 How/Can I Cleanse The Source/Taint? - (This Is The One Of Rand's I Think We Now Know)

 

2 How Do I Win Tarmon Gaidon?

 

3 How Do I Survive The Last Battle?

 

 

SPECIAL NOTE OF MINE - Ive seen #3 often speculated, but I just can't see someone as unselfish as Rand wasting one of the three on himself...possible though...

 

 

And Of Course, Since We Saw Them, Obviously Cauthon's Are Confirmed

 

1 Why Do I Have To Marry TDOTNM?

 

2 Why Do I Have To Go To Rhuidan?

 

3 Actually, Ive Forgotten This One LOL!!!

 

 

 

Fish

 

 

[Vulgir]

Well, way more than 9, lol, but pertaining to OUR Story, we have been made aware that The Dragon Reborn, The Trickster and Moirane Damodred have visited those Folks through Doorway Ter'angreal and that each asked 3 Questions ... 3X3 = 9.

We Know 4 For Certain. (Mat's 3, 1 of Rand's and 0 of Moirane Sedai's) = 4

 

 

What Do You Think The Remaining 5 Were???

 

 

Fish

 

we know 2 of Rands How to Clense the Taint, and How to win the last battle, and survive. soo.. whats with your guesses?

 

 

[The Fisher King]

Vulgir ... Well, if you are correct (And Im not disputing you) then we know 6 of the 9 now...which is almost 2/3...

 

So, From 9, We Detectives are now down to just 3 we do not know ...

 

 

Fish

[Balefire to da face!]

Ok, wait, we know at least 5, don't we?

 

Mat's three. And we know two of Rand's....

 

"How do I win the Last Battle?" The answer being "The north and east must be as one. The west and south must be as one. The two must be as one". And another was "How do I cleanse Saidin?". Right?

 

Besides the question, "Do I need to kill Lanfear to save TDR" none of those you guys proposed makes sense. We have a PoV from Moiraine right after her trip into the Doorway, and she shows none of the signs of the stress she began showing after going to Rhuidian. The knowledge of her death, her time in Elfland, and such is something she did not know until well after going through the doorway, so she wouldn't have been asking any of those questions.

 

Edit: Come to think of it, I am pretty sure we do know all of Rand's questions. Because we know one of his answers was "To live, you must die". He asked how to survive TG. Unless that question was mixed in with the "How do I win the LB" somehow, then yeah, we know all three.

[Vulgir]

Vulgir ... Well, if you are correct (And Im not disputing you) then we know 6 of the 9 now...which is almost 2/3...

 

So, From 9, We Detectives are now down to just 3 we do not know ...

 

 

Fish

 

dude learn to add we dont know 4 questions rands 3rd question and mororaines 3, you may be confused but Rands 2nd question is a 2 parter, how to win TarminGadion and survive.

[The Fisher King]

Balefire to da face said: Besides the question, "Do I need to kill Lanfear to save TDR" none of those you guys proposed makes sense. We have a PoV from Moiraine right after her trip into the Doorway, and she shows none of the signs of the stress she began showing after going to Rhuidian. The knowledge of her death, her time in Elfland, and such is something she did not know until well after going through the doorway, so she wouldn't have been asking any of those questions.

 

... I think she just didn't exude a whole lot of anxiety afterwards because she then has her answers and she was at peace with the knowledge...resigned to it and calm ... Also, how else do you think she knew to go down to the docks (taking Rand with her) that day?

 

Vulgir Said: dude learn to add we dont know 4 questions rands 3rd question and mororaines 3, you may be confused but Rands 2nd question is a 2 parter, how to win TarminGadion and survive.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting - oh, wait; you insulted me lol. Regardless, your comments confuse me. The number we feel that we know depends on our speculation and what we know. I feel confident in saying that we fairly assuredly know either 4 or 5 of the 9...As to Rand asking a ''Two-Parter'', how do you know that? It makes it sound like Rand really snuck in 4 questions rather than 3 - seems more like a trick Mat would have pulled lol! ;)  

 

 

 

Fish

 

[HighLordXanthus]

I dont think you are even close with Moiraines questions.  Remember Egwene's advice to mat about the use of the stone door?  Questions touching the shadow have dire consequences.  Seeing as Eqwene would have gotten such info from Moiraine, there you go.  All questions touching the forsaken touch the shadow.  Obviously Rand didn't know or care about such advice.  The question is, did Moiraine risk it and ask anyway.  It is likely, though she would have been very circumspect in her wording to minimize the level it touchs the shadow.

 

How about "How do I fulfill my life's work" as that does not exactly touch the shadow and may tell her what she needs to do to help the dragon.  A possible answer could be "Dont get trapped by the 'Finns".  That would lead to another question.  "How do I avoid that fate?"  The answer could be how she learned it would take Thom and Mat. 

 

Her trip thru the rhuidien ter'angreal would have further fleshed out her plan of rescue from the 'finns.

[The Fisher King]

H.L.X. Said:  It is likely, though she would have been very circumspect in her wording to minimize the level it touchs the shadow

 

That is EXACTLY how I was trying to figure out to say  it earlier - I totally agree. I think we see Moirane getting more and more desperate in her final days...yes, she knew the ''rules'' about the Questions, but by that  point she may have ''Pulled a Mat'' and taken a few gambles ... Also, High Lord Xanthus, if you don't like our guesses on Moirane's Possible Questions she asked, and who knows, lol, what do YOU think she may have been asking?

 

 

Fish

[HighLordXanthus]

Well, first of you cannot say she was yet desperate.  She went thru the door after ganking Be'lal and rand did the same to Ishy.  She was likely as up as she had been in a while.  I think she went thru the door to keep at the top of her game.  The is before Rhuidien and her leason there.  That was when she was again desperate for any way to help rand fulfill his destiny as the Dragon.

 

But I do think she would have "skirted" the edges of topis about the darkone.  In her life and her goals there is very little she COULD ask that didnt touch on it.

 

I did give some guesses to her questions, but here is a better representation.

 

1-Q- How Do Fullfill my lifes work? 

  A- Be there to help the Dragon Reborn at the End.

2-Q- How Do I do that?

  A- Be rescued by the man you will marry.

3-Q- Who will I marry?

  A- Thom Merrilin.

 

As these are just guesses, I know I got a litte bit cheeky there are the end, but there is that bit about moiraine know the the face of the man she will marry better then the girls.

 

 

[Balefire to da face!]

... I think she just didn't exude a whole lot of anxiety afterwards because she then has her answers and she was at peace with the knowledge...resigned to it and calm ... Also, how else do you think she knew to go down to the docks (taking Rand with her) that day?

 

Moiraine has a PoV in The Shadow Rising almost immediately after her trip into the doorway. Remember? The scene where Rand jammed Callandor into the Heart of the Stone was from Moiraine's perspective. Even inside Moiraine's own head we have no indication that she just got news like, "You are going to die!".

 

When she did find out about it, Moiraine was not at peace with her impending death. She knew about events from the rings in Rhuidien laying out her life before her. After her trip to Rhuidien, she shows several, blantant signs that she is sad/upset/nervous about her impending death. Tightness of the eyes, even more distance and coldness towards Egwene, and a particular scene with Lan if I remember right. It's very clear that future events having to do with her death and time in Elfland were gotten from the rings, not from the doorway.

 

In fact, we can infer some things from her reactions. Knowing Moiraine, her questions would all be about how to make sure the Dragon succeeded. But she almost certainly did not know the details about her encounter with Lanfear after her trip to the doorway. So her questions would have been around helping Rand, but would not have revealed what was going to happen to her. Did she ask questions that pertained to what happened before her meeting with Lanfear....after she is rescued? Hmm....

[The Fisher King]

I would like to try to find that part when I can...

 

The only thought I remember is her thinking that she had thought of sleeping with Rand and learned that would be ''Disasterous.''

 

 

Fish

[HighLordXanthus]

That is after rhuidien, not tear

[Mr. Dragon]

Here is a quote (from me) from another thread similar to this stating one of the questions Moiraine may have asked and the possible answer.

 

One of Moiraine's questions may well have been 'How do I ensure the Dragon Reborn reaches/wins the Last Battle?'. Their answer is even more of a guess but if she did indeed ask this, they may have said, 'You must not follow him always but see your future', or something to that effect. I think this because when she is talking to the Wise Ones, in every Dream they had, it was Moraine who brought up the subject of going to Rhuidean. Without the question and answer i've stated, she may well have brought it up first, but instead, she decided specificly not to follow him, but went to R to see her future. We also know that the land of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn doesn't interact with the WoD as the rest of the world does and so it seems possible that the predictions in Dreams can't utalise any change in actions due to answers given in Finnland until the answers have been given, making their predictions slightly wrong.

 

There are a lot of ifs but we are working on very little knowledge.

[mb]

A number of past threads discussed the Aelfinn questions/answers.

 

We Know 4 For Certain. (Mat's 3, 1 of Rand's and 0 of Moirane Sedai's - Equalling 4 Known)

Actually Mat had a 4th one.

Like others told, we know 2 of Rand's questions. (how to cleanse saidin, how to win Tarmon Gaidon and survive)  Though the exact answer is known for only one of them (Tarmon Gaidon question).

So 6 known questions, 5 known answers; 4 unknown questions, 5 unknown answers.

This page lists the known::

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/aelfinn.html

 

As these are just guesses, I know I got a litte bit cheeky there are the end, but there is that bit about moiraine know the the face of the man she will marry better then the girls.

That discussion was before she when through the door.

 

 

Moiraine's knowledge of her rescue and of her situation with Lanfear, I take she got from Rhuidean's 3 arches; not from the Aelfinn.

Moiraine's knowledge/claim that she would marry (and of whom), the only source before the Aelfinn door would be a prophesier.  The only prophesiers Moiraine knew/knows are Egwene, Min, Elaida, and Gitara.  Egwene did not know that Moiraine would marry; Elaida and Moiraine generally avoided each other.  So Min or Gitara would be the most likely source; the more probable of the two would be Min since Viewings would generally be more specific than Foretellings.

Slight chance of asking about Thom Merrilin; though if she did, her question would most likely have been 'what must I do with Thom Merrilin' and the answer being 'send him to Tanchico'.

Best chance on finding out her questions & answers would likely be her rescue scene.

 

[The Fisher King]

Thanks for reminding me that Mat actually snuck a 4th Question in there too!

 

 

 

Fish

[The Doctor]

Didn't Mat get like 6 answers?  He asked his questions, then when he got off track he started yelling at them and they told him some extra answers while they were freaking out trying to get him to leave.

[HighLordXanthus]

I thought he said some think like "What fate?" to answer about him sidestepping fate.  There they blasted him with all those "prophesies".

[Worm]

One of Moraines questions was something along the lines of:

Q: Will Thom die if he goes to Tanchico

A: Nope

 

or more likely:

Q: Will Elayne/Nynaeve die if they continue searching for the Black Ajah?

A: If the man known as Thom Merrilyn goes with them none of them will die.

 

I worked this out because of an quote in TSR (I think someone may have mentioned it further up the page aswell)

 

" 'A quiet life would kill you, I think' Sounding distinctly amused, she busied herself rearranging the folds of her skirt with small, slender hands. He had the impression she was hiding a smile. 'Tanchico will not, however. I guarantee that, and by the first oath you know it for truth.' "

(page 273 TSR)

 

This is the day after she went through the ter'angreal doorway, before she went through the rings. From this conversation it is obvious that she knew for certain that Thom would not die if he went to Tanchico to protect Elayne; Moraine cannot fortell (Thom verifies this on the next page) and she is under the oath to speak no word which is not the truth.

 

:)

[jemron]

One of Moraines questions was something along the lines of:

Q: Will Thom die if he goes to Tanchico

A: Nope

 

or more likely:

Q: Will Elayne/Nynaeve die if they continue searching for the Black Ajah?

A: If the man known as Thom Merrilyn goes with them none of them will die.

 

I worked this out because of an quote in TSR (I think someone may have mentioned it further up the page aswell)

 

" 'A quiet life would kill you, I think' Sounding distinctly amused, she busied herself rearranging the folds of her skirt with small, slender hands. He had the impression she was hiding a smile. 'Tanchico will not, however. I guarantee that, and by the first oath you know it for truth.' "

(page 273 TSR)

 

This is the day after she went through the ter'angreal doorway, before she went through the rings. From this conversation it is obvious that she knew for certain that Thom would not die if he went to Tanchico to protect Elayne; Moraine cannot fortell (Thom verifies this on the next page) and she is under the oath to speak no word which is not the truth.

 

:)

 

It is my opinion that she knows Thom won't die because of a viewing Min had back in EotW where she told Moiraine that she would marry Thom.  This is why Moiraine told the super girls at the beginning of TSR (before she went into the doorway) that she knew the man she would marry better than they did.  This is likely also the viewing that Min was referring to that "didn't work."

 

While I don't know any of the questions that Moirain asked, I think it is safe to assume that "You must go to Rhuidean" was at least one of the answers, just as it was one of Mat's answers.  Also, to be fair, Mat actually got to ask more than 3 questions.  He got to ask 4, and all 4 were answered.  Number 4 received 3 answers.  Some have speculated that the Aelfinn only answer 3 questions truthfully, and that it's slightly possible that one of Mat's answers was a deliberate lie.

[mb]

This is the day after she went through the ter'angreal doorway, before she went through the rings. From this conversation it is obvious that she knew for certain that Thom would not die if he went to Tanchico to protect Elayne; Moraine cannot fortell (Thom verifies this on the next page) and she is under the oath to speak no word which is not the truth.

In Eye of World, Moiraine knew that Min saw things about him; and likely Min told Moiraine the things.  Moiraine might have likely deduced him not dieing from the prophecies she knew about him from before the door.

 

 

I suspect that only Mat received clear answers from the Aelfinn.  I suspect Moiraine got riddles like Rand did.

 

 

While I don't know any of the questions that Moirain asked, I think it is safe to assume that "You must go to Rhuidean" was at least one of the answers, just as it was one of Mat's answers.  Also, to be fair, Mat actually got to ask more than 3 questions.  He got to ask 4, and all 4 were answered.  Number 4 received 3 answers.  Some have speculated that the Aelfinn only answer 3 questions truthfully, and that it's slightly possible that one of Mat's answers was a deliberate lie.

Moiraine's going to Rhuidean I take was because of the Wise One's letter; I doubt Moiraine asked about that.

All of Mat's answers I think are truth; the reason for being granted a 4th answer might be because 2 of the questions were the same or because he persisted in asking about the fate, or maybe both.

 

[HighLordXanthus]

Is there a quote of mins view of moiraine and thom?  I certainly do not remember anything like it.  Oh I agree with the timeline working right, and I do remember moiraine saying that about the man she will marry.  It would also fit for how sure Moiraine was that Thom was not killed by the fade in whitebridge.

 

I think part of the "riddle" thing is that mat knew the old tongue, while rand and moiraine needed translators.

[mb]

Is there a quote of mins view of moiraine and thom?  I certainly do not remember anything like it.

Eye of World Chapter 15 tells the viewings of the group.

Min tells Rand of them after Rand came out of the inn.

Thom's (Min talking to Rand)::

"[...]The strongest images around the gleeman are a man^__not him^__juggling fire, and the White Tower[...]"

Min might have told Moiraine more.

 

[Canis Rufus]

RJ has said that intended to have the series read as they were released so I think it’s safe to assume that Moiraine’s seemingly omnipotent knowledge could very well be beyond the information made available to us currently, as it may be part of the yet unfinished new spring Prequels trilogy (at least that is my understanding of the intent for New Spring).  I doubt it really has that much to do with the Finn however as, we know she found the Green man twice and that was something never done before.  There are many cards up Moiraine’s sleeve. 

 

On a side note if she knew that Tom and mat and another would be needed to some get her then the logical assumption would be that he would live to that point.  She needed him at Tanchico, so she could twist her available knowledge to get him to do what she wanted.  Not a Finn thing necessarily, but a utilization of available fact in her pocket, from any source of premonitions, Min, Foretelling or any Possible tool of the power hence for unknown.         

.