Blade of Light, Three Become One. (Full Spoilers).

[mossman87]

Id substitute Egwene for alvia cuz Min would skin him alive if he did that cuz she is guna help him die remember

 

It needs to happen though, if the prophecies aren't met they won't win, so as much as common sense tells you to push away someone that will help you die, you need them there to make sure you save the world.

[thewalrus777]

Id substitute Egwene for alvia cuz Min would skin him alive if he did that cuz she is guna help him die remember

 

It needs to happen though, if the prophecies aren't met they won't win, so as much as common sense tells you to push away someone that will help you die, you need them there to make sure you save the world.

 

He's right. It has been stated by the writers(wether RJ or BS, i can't remember)that if prophecy is not fulfilled, it WILL destroy the pattern.

[firstfishman]

Alvia and Nynaeve will most likely link with Rand, with Nynaeve leading the circle. I think she will probably "heal" the bore in the DO's prison.

[Teslan]

I personally don't like this idea of Callandor needing two women for proper use with one of the women having to guide the flows. Seems like a lame variant of political correctness at work.

 

The magnification of the taint no longer seems relevant.  So is the danger still that large?

 

I am still not convinced the blade of light is callandor. But meh.

 

What if the three were Lews Therin, Rand, and the stranger? >_>

[jadelollipop]

by stranger do you mean the man at SL when they fought Sammael and Mashadar?  Wasn't that Moridin?

[dario]

There's one thing I don't get. In book 8 Cadsuane says that Callandor is flawed, in that it amplifies the taint. So with saidin cleansed wouldn't Callandor be fine now? Why does the person using it need to be in a circle anymore? If someone could answer that i'd appreciate it.

callandor was made previous to the breaking and so the circle dosen't has a thing to do with the taint, just the way it was made to work.

[dario]

I reckon its Saidin, Saidar and whatever Fain uses. I think this because of what happened at the Cleansing.

 

IIRC, Rand made Saidar push Saidin away from Shadar Logoth. At the same time, the Taint was attracted to the Shadar Logoth evil-confirmed by BS. So, Saidin was pushed away from SL, while the Taint was pulled towards SL, hence the seperation. So, I think Fain may somehow become involved. I think this will be Fains ultimate role; despite the fact that the Taint was attracted to SL, they are still opposites according to BS, so technically we have three powers that could counter the Shadow. Saidin, Saidar, and Shadar Logoth, which became evil to fight evil.

 

shadar logoth evil was a local rarety that ocured to a city by their population corruption much like a hunted house...that evil dosen't has another pool of existence so now that the city dosen't exists any more thers no way to use it.

 

my opinion is that as the true power is the side of the DO the one power shold be from the creator. The true power dosn't seem to have a male and female side so it seems that the use of saidin combined with saidar thru a powerfull sa'angreal (callandor) could nulify both powers leaving the world free of the DO but also from channelers.

[Teslan]

by stranger do you mean the man at SL when they fought Sammael and Mashadar?  Wasn't that Moridin?

 

Yes it was, force of habit - sorry

 

[favouriteson]

i don't think it has anything to do with repairing the bore. what would be the point in that? the last battle either menas the end of the WOT or the dark 1 defeated.

I think the 3 in2 1 thing is Rand linking with 2 women on callandor. 1 must be moiraine as she ses she is critical to the success of the last battle. Min had a viewing and always thought it was about Rand's 3 women, but I think it is about the 3 ppl in the 'circle' using callandor. it is now the most powerful angreal after AMOL. I do appreciate the view it could be all 3 powers being used at once, but it wont be to seal the dark 1's prison. the dark 1 will die b4 the end of this series or there was no point in it. the niggest flaw in LOTR was that it talked about this dark lord all and all these magic powers the time, but no1 ever saw them. TWOT will let us see all that and more. I cant wait.

[feliasgrimm]

I think the three become one is possibly a triple-prophecy:

 

1) There's the obvious meaning of the three ta'veren being the "blade of light" in the sense of the aiel being the "spears of the dragon" - Mat, Perrin and Rand united with their Armies (Rand's channelers {including aes sedai}), Mat's "conventional" armies and Perrin's Wolves.

 

2) There's also the meaning of the three "souls" in Rand's body (Rand, LTT, and whatever part of Moridin is in there) reconciled to one... and the combined "Dragon" being the Blade of the Light.

 

3) There's a possibility of it being the Aiel, Seanchean and Randlanders - (possibly substitute Sea folk) as the Blade of the Light when all become unified together (Randlanders, Aiel, and Sea folk possibly, which would tie into #4).

 

4) Rand is the target of three distinct prophecy "sets" - he's simultaneously the Dragon, Caramoor, and Car'a'carn - There's no indication that those would necessarily HAVE to be the same person IIRC (I might be wrong in the caramoor/dragon angle, but I'm pretty sure the Car'a'carn doesn't HAVE to be the Dragon).

 

5) There's a possibility that it refers to Rand's love quadrangle - three of them but right now they don't all get along (although I admit it's a reach)

 

6) There's the Callandor + Rand and two girls theory, which I tend to slightly discount just because it's too obvious.

 

7) It might not be a last-battle thing, could relate to the three going to rescue Moiraine allied and she somehow produces a blade of light for rand (which would explain the need for her at the LB) - Doubtful.

 

8) Rand, a Male (flinn?) and a female (alivia most likely) wielding callandor together - This would be a fairly literal translation but also they'd bring Saidin (Flinn?), Saidar (Alivia?) and True Power (Rand) together as a weapon.

 

 

Sealing the bore:

Regardless of how the prophecy is explicitly fulfilled, I think there's something to the Counterstroke that needs to be thought up.

 

I have a feeling (mostly from Moridin/Rand's dream conversation, plus a few other hints throughout the last few books and the first few) that this isn't the same wheel - One way or another I have a feeling that this series will conclude the Wheel/Serpent. Either the Dark one will win (doubtful), it'll lead to a "reset" of humanity in general, one without the power, etc (unlikely) OR the Light will win with the Dark One PERMANENTLY ground.

The Dark one is looking to end the wheel, we know that from a number of sources. Rand wants to break the cycle it seems as of this book.

Can the Dark One be killed? Doubt it. Although stilling and a few other things have been deemed "impossible" and still happened.

 

Now, let's look at the seal: Any action that is taken to seal the dark one will probably result in the dark one being sealed up, BUT taint the force used to seal it.

RJ has said in interviews that HAD saidar been used to seal the prison as well as saidin, it would have been tainted too - triggering an apocalyptic event since there wouldn't be a force to contain the rogue channelers (currently the females have kept the males' insanity in check)

 

We know that Rand can (probably through Moridin) channel the True Power. Its reasonably logical to conclude that this is not at the permission of the Dark One. The logical place to go then, is that so long as Moridin retains the ability to channel TP Rand can as well.

 

Saidin was tainted because it came in contact with the Dark One. But what if the entire prison was created from TP?

 

The rubble must be cleared away - TP burns away the pattern. If TP was directed at the remnants of the prison, it would blow away the current prison. A new one, made of TP could be created. When the dark one Counterstrokes it, which sounded reflexive and not really thought out (I don't think he had TIME to do anything fancy - and despite being god-like he has been proven on a number of occasions to not be able to be all-knowing, omnipotent, omnipresent or able to manipulate multiple things at once) - He would, in fact, counterstroke/taint HIMSELF. That would have one of two effects:

 

1) Destroy him or Contain him to the point of being impotent (either is essentially the same and different only by semantics) - making the wheel spin on its axis and not repeat the same way its been happening. This is my gut theory. Also, it provides for a happy ending - since the pattern is permanently skewed from that point on, previous "repeats" wouldn't have to repeat (LTT's death - leading to rand's potential life).

 

2) Leave him completely dormant. This would set up a different age (and we've only defined a couple of them) - we know that the age of legends has advanced channeling and something akin to modern technology (some of this stuff sounds like guns, cars, tanks, elevators, lightbulbs, etc, but with a definite "power" aspect) but maybe the next age is more similar to the Real World's dark ages (or early history), with no channeling at all... the next age would be something akin to our modern age, which ends with nuclear war or some other earth-shattering apocalypse, followed by a freak mutation leading to "magic"/channeling and rotate back into the progression again.

 

 

On the other hand - Min's presence in the series at this point seems to be more philosophy/science than the mysticism of the Channelers - maybe she and aludra and Rand (Making the "three" Channeling, Science, and Philosophy becoming one Solution to create the "blade of Light") seal the bore. If science is involved, they're going to need something to seal the prison. Strong adhesive. Glue. And for that, I can only think of one source. Not the True Source, One Source, etc. The Real Source of Glue strong enough to hold the Dark One's prison together?

 

Bela. FTW.

[ed2funy]

lmfa...was that whole thing for Bela?

 

lol...it was good...then you starting getting better and I knew it had to do with Her...

 

good ideas man.

[feliasgrimm]

For the record -

 

Everything but the last bit were actual theories I have on the issue - it wouldn't surprise me if three of the things I listed actually became one making a combination prophecy - three sets of three things.

 

The end bit - which could be accurate (possible but doubtful) with channeling/philosophy/science wasn't so much a theory but a way to be funny with bela.

 

[WolfDragonFox]

Nice feliasgrimm, and try $#!T in your sig.  I read that last Bella bit and almost fell out

(BTW the sig suggestion is not anything serious, just how I like to write poo)

[dario]

The end bit - which could be accurate (possible but doubtful) with channeling/philosophy/science wasn't so much a theory but a way to be funny with bela.

 

 

i still think that the end will be the three powers canceling each other.

before rand established the first unibersity all the societys depend on the power in a way or another. the unibersity puts the land work for a place without the powers.

on dragonmont when rand was about to destroy the pater lewis say that the patern keeps throwing them back to have a second chance and that what gives rand his sanity back.

 

i think that at the end the wheel of time will unfold into an endless line. the DO can't be completly defeted if the wheel stays whole cause the events are bound to hapen again with some power seeking man/woman looking again for a new fount of power (thats how lewis says they founf the DO in his age)the only way to prevent that for ever hapening again is to nullyfy the powers.

[firstfishman]

Wow, you guys are thinking WAY too much about this. On page 744 of TGS, we are told what the "Three become one, Blade of light" refers to. Cadsuane tells Min right out that her theory is right.

 

About as useless as saying Asmodean is alive because it wasnt written, "He died".

 

The profits death was written as, "There was no answer. And he joined with the void, tumbling into an endless sea of blackness". Does this mean he tumbled into the DO? It didnt say right out that he died... He has to be alive then..

[Express]

I've always thought the three becoming one were Rand, Matt and Perrin but the Blade of Light was in question as I believed it was the very first "Blade of Light" Rand used back in tEotW, IIRC, he was told he wasn't prepared to use it yet.  Ok this is wrong:):):)!!!

 

"feliasgrimm," posted:   "Rand, a Male (flinn?) and a female (alivia most likely) wielding callandor together - This would be a fairly literal translation but also they'd bring Saidin (Flinn?), Saidar (Alivia?) and True Power (Rand) together as a weapon."

 

I still don't think the three "powers" can be combined as noone has shown that they could be used simultaniously.  Saidan/Saidar cancel out True Power or vice/versa.

 

How about if the flaw in Callandor is that in the circle of two women and one man, the man can control the weave(I don't recall this being mentioned but if it has my apologies)?  This would allow Rand to use the True Source not just the male half but both combined.  Also, I've mentioned before I think that Callandor is the True Source so what if it is the "buffer" to any counterstroke offered by the DO.  It does have the ability to absorb balefire, at least balefire from TP.  I'm just rambling now but to me Callandor has so much more potential and even though Rand failed, in his words, against the Seanchan, when Callandor is used against Shadowspawn or Forsaken it works just fine.  

 

Also, I don't see the DO being killed.  I guess it's possible but then the wheel would have to spit him out again to maintain balance.  Maybe that's how the DO was were he was???  "The wheels on the bus go round and round....."

[WolfDragonFox]

Wow, you guys are thinking WAY too much about this. On page 744 of TGS, we are told what the "Three become one, Blade of light" refers to. Cadsuane tells Min right out that her theory is right.

 

About as useless as saying Asmodean is alive because it wasnt written, "He died".

 

The profits death was written as, "There was no answer. And he joined with the void, tumbling into an endless sea of blackness". Does this mean he tumbled into the DO? It didnt say right out that he died... He has to be alive then..

 

Actually this discussion is not being thought about way too hard, I would say not enough or just right because the main fuel AL4M is when Min comments that there is more to it and something is missing.  That is why we have theories beyond the plain written one.  But you are welcome to keep that as you opinion for the matter.

[mossman87]

Wow, you guys are thinking WAY too much about this. On page 744 of TGS, we are told what the "Three become one, Blade of light" refers to. Cadsuane tells Min right out that her theory is right.

 

About as useless as saying Asmodean is alive because it wasnt written, "He died".

 

The profits death was written as, "There was no answer. And he joined with the void, tumbling into an endless sea of blackness". Does this mean he tumbled into the DO? It didnt say right out that he died... He has to be alive then..

 

Actually this discussion is not being thought about way too hard, I would say not enough or just right because the main fuel AL4M is when Min comments that there is more to it and something is missing.  That is why we have theories beyond the plain written one.  But you are welcome to keep that as you opinion for the matter.

 

Well yeah, something to it is missing, she didn't say it's completely wrong though.

 

For all we know it needs Moiraine, and Min can't wrap her head around it because she believes she's dead.

 

I have to agree with firstfishman, it can be something out of left field but we're pretty much being told what it's about, and BS seems a lot more straight forward than RJ in his writing.

[feliasgrimm]

BS IS more straightforward than RJ.

 

However:

 

Cadsuane can be wrong. It doesn't happen often, but it CAN happen. And even if she says something flat out, not even the Oaths can call her on it as long as she THINKS she's right (and if she does turn out to be black, VERY possible, then it doesn't matter whether she thinks she's right or not).

 

It's still RJs story, with RJ's cliffhangers and RJ's twists. IF BS wrote that particular prophecy (which I'm inclined to doubt) then it's MOST LIKELY fairly straightforward. IF it's RJ's, it's less likely.

 

My observations on the prophecies lead me to believe that they usually seem fairly literal in interpretation, at least once you have all the facts (sometimes only gained hindsight, such as the Spears of the Dragon thing). So the "Three becomes one" I tend to think of as a literal merging of three entities into one, although I wouldn't use the word "certain".

 

Another channeler related grouping could be White Tower/Black Tower/unaligned all fighting together - but I'm not really feeling that one.

 

And Bela jokes aside, I really think there's something to the science/philosophy angle the more I think on it, with Aludra, Fel, Min, the academies, etc. The steam engine appeared in Tear a book or two back (from Cairhein), and the seanchean are more into training animals and organizing than using channelers for everything (not that the damane don't get used... and they're identified as the cornerstone of the army, but most of the Randlanders have a harder time dealing with Raken than Damane). I don't think it's directly relevant to that prophecy (but if it is I DO want to put the Bela theory in the mix ;) ) but it's gonna crop up somewhere in a major way.

 

Cadsuane is flawed in four ways, imho:

1) She always thinks she's right, and therefore doesn't look to alternate solutions.

2) She has, on repeated instances, all but disregarded the other two (Perrin and Mat)

3) She is very likely black.

4) She doesn't have ALL the relevant information. She tends to question people a lot, but she's also not a research type... Even moiraine is shown heading back to the books once in a while...

 

As for 3:

Moiraine (in new spring) is fairly certain cadsuane is black. She's also the only person who has correctly identified that Rand had Asmodean around, and also the only person that called Verin out. As for why she didn't warn Rand - Cadsuane wasn't on the scene yet, and Moiraine had no way to know she'd be involved even with her stepping through the Rings because her path led to the doorframe and away from Rand (And assuming she's not herself black - she wrote every eventuality from the docks consisted of rand dead or turned to the shadow, where cadsuane wouldn't have been involved).

Cadsuane had some involvement with the Blacks up during the events of New Spring. She also had some involvement with the capture of Taim (and Logain? I can't recall on that one), along with a number of other male channelers (to the point that their survival is extended).

Stilled persons tend to die off unless there is something that drives them and allows them to replace what they lost... like THE GREAT LORD OF THE DARK! (or joining the church of bela). Future power and glory in the Great Lord's name. Might help someone hold it together longer, and they're easier to convince being half-mad anyways.

 

I'm not saying she is, but there's a GOOD chance. Given that and her own limitations, I don't see how her "word" on the matter can be anything other than coincidentally correct.

[mossman87]

BS IS more straightforward than RJ.

 

However:

 

I'm not saying she is, but there's a GOOD chance. Given that and her own limitations, I don't see how her "word" on the matter can be anything other than coincidentally correct.

 

I understand a twist would work, especially knowing the series, but this was supposed to be one book, I just don't see RJ adding too many huge twists this late.

[thewalrus777]

good points to the think on.

 

Cadsuane is kind of arrogant in her ways...but that could be just her being the strongest Aes Sedai in the Tower for 200 years up until recent events. She is used to no one questioning her and her methods at all. As we know Aes Sedai differ to other Aes Sedai who are stronger in the OP. I consider her just as sneaky and smart as Verin. So she could be of the BA. As to her thinking she's always right, 99% of the Aes Sedai population has the same train of thought. She knows Mat and Perrin are important, but she is concentrating on the MOST IMPORTANT person in the world, TDR. It's not that she disregards them, she is just taking a different route of trying to help. As Moiraine tried to help all three, Cadsuane believes that just making sure Rand makes it to the TG, is the ultimate goal. Cadsuane is of the Green Ajah. She believes her place will be in the mix, during TG. However being retired, wouldn't stop her from reading up on things to come. She just hadn't really been attached to Rand long enough to have all the relevant info. And that's because he won't tell her a lot of things because he's still on the fence about his trust in her.

[WolfDragonFox]

For now I'm settled on this matter as being a combination of 3's becoming one. 

 

Rand/LTT/Moridin

Rand/Mat/Perrin

and the Callandor 3 link (which for some reason I can't shake thinking its Rand, Egwene, and some Seanchan channeler either Alivia since she's gonna be there anyway or somehow Tuon and another 3 in 1 combo is made bringing the 3 super power representatives together.  And I have a whole strange but decent theory on the Body Swap theory thread that I wish everyone to read and tell me what you think good bad or indifferent.  Thanks guys/gals.

 

I just wanted to throw out there that it is possible that it is more than just the Callandor 2 women 1 man thing since we've seen this book twist us around before.

[cleantoe]

I wonder if Perrin and Mat can be bonded to Rand much the same way as his harem girls. Can you imagine that? The three ta'veren all linked together into one bad-ass ta'veren ass-whooping machine? I wonder if it would magnify their ta'veren-ness.

[ed2funy]

That would be weird....

I mean they can already see each other with swirling colors...

{sometimes in awkward situations} :P

 

But I can see that...It would be weird though...

[feliasgrimm]

Mat's luck and perrin's overall awareness (via the wolves) WOULD make for an awesome addition to his abilities if they somehow combined, and bonding would also add a degree of battlefield coordination (in a tabletop game I was linked to another character similar to the warder bond... general sense of state but no "mind meld"... we used to intentionally cut ourselves in different locations to signal the other ones since we were aware of each others' injuries...).

 

Then again, you'd want rand in charge of the bond and since he's gonna die... bye bye perrin/mat.

 

As far as the body swap - I wouldn't say "no, it's not gonna happen" but it's more difficult to pull off than some of teh other conceptual plans, so I see it as unlikely but creative. Just my opinion, but I do like the thought process.