Blade of Light, Three Become One. (Full Spoilers).

[dnfleming]

Sorry if what I said was confusing.  I never said all heroes were ta'veren, I said the heroes probably include most if not all of those who have ever been ta'veren, meaning some heroes are ta'veren, not that they all are.

[mossman87]

Sorry if what I said was confusing.  I never said all heroes were ta'veren, I said the heroes probably include most if not all of those who have ever been ta'veren, meaning some heroes are ta'veren, not that they all are.

 

Oh my post was to Ares, not you.  Unless this post was directed to him and not myself, which I apologize and please ignore this. :)

[Mr Ares]

If Matt shortly thereafter blows the horn, Rand/LT would return leading all of the heroes bound to the wheel, which probably includes every ta'varen ever spun out by the wheel, when counting Matt and Perrin too.

No, ta'veren and Heroes are not the same thing. Both are partsof the pattern's self-coorecting mechanism, but different parts. One can be one or the other. Birgitte, for example, is not ta'veren (it would have been noticed if she was).

 

I apologize upfront but this just doesn't make sense to me.  I don't remember reading anywhere that the "Dragon" was one of the Hero's. I could be wrong.

The Dragon is part of the Pattern's self-correcting mechanism.

Just one thing, since there's no confusion, your post is spot-on, except the Heroes CAN be Ta'veren as well, but aren't always. Apologies if I read your post wrong and just misunderstood.

That's what I meant. It wasn't as clear as it could have been. Rand, like Hawkwing, is both.

 

Sorry if what I said was confusing. I never said all heroes were ta'veren, I said the heroes probably include most if not all of those who have ever been ta'veren, meaning some heroes are ta'veren, not that they all are.

Why do they probably include most ta'veren? Ta'veren are only so for a short period, Heroes are so from birth, and their lives are reused for the same purpose. Plus there are only a very few Heroes. If anything, it is far more likely that most ta'veren are not Heroes.

[wingedearth]

My own theory involves the fact of the 'flaw' in Callandor, which might not really be a flaw.

 

My guess is this:

 

Callandor is a Sa'angreal not just for the Male half, but also for the TRUE power. The reason it magnified the Taint is because the Taint and the True Power were effectively identical to it.

 

I assume the Three Become One involves the three Powers:

 

Saidin.

Saidar.

The True Power.

 

Perhaps Rand has to use the True Power to restrain or hold back the Dark One, while using Saidin and Saidar both to seal the hole, via a link. Robert Jordan pretty much said, if I recall one interview correctly, that if just women did it then it would be Saidar that would have been tainted, and if both did, they both would have been.

 

So there needs to be something that keeps the Dark One from touching the Weave, thus the True Power comes into play. Via Rand's link with Moridin, he has access to the True Power most likely. So he can manage to use all three powers to push the Dark One back and repair the Bore like it never was with both the male and female powers.

 

What would channeling the True Power do against the Dark One? Wouldn't that be like firing at the ocean with a squirt gun?

[dnfleming]

Why do they probably include most ta'veren? Ta'veren are only so for a short period, Heroes are so from birth, and their lives are reused for the same purpose. Plus there are only a very few Heroes. If anything, it is far more likely that most ta'veren are not Heroes.

 

You're right. Just found some info on that, which I hadn't read before.

 

Glimmers Q&A - One becomes ta'veren according to the needs of the Wheel. No one is born ta'veren. Rand, Mat and Perrin became ta'veren just before Moiraine appeared.

 

Heroes would be a pattern-correcting mechanism on a longer time-scale, like something that needs to be done within a generation.  Ta'veren are more like temporary heroes-on-demand to correct something that can't wait that long.

[Express]

I'm sorry but I don't agree that Rand(or the Dragon) is bound by the Horn.  He is "ta'veren" but he's not one of the Heroes.  The Pattern does spit the Dragon out as a corrective mechanism or a regular joe.  

 

Rand was ta'veren from birth and whomever the pattern chooses to be the Dragon if it's a time when he will be needed to combat the Dark Lord, will be ta'veren.  You could be right with Matt and Perrin.

 

Back to the thread, What if Rand is holding the "Blade of light" and he links with the three(one man, possibly Logain, two women, Alivia and Nynaeve) becoming one with Callandor?  Rand could then be in control of the weaves.  He could also remember how to channel the storm cloud that he uses in Tear that destroy's every Fade and Trolloc. Going even farther out there, Callandor is the True Source and as an offensive weapon can be used to destroy "shadowspawn" NOT the enemy!  Light and Dark cannot coexist in the same spot.  My apologies if this has been brought up somewhere.

 

 

[jadelollipop]

I thought Rand was tied to the Wheel as a Hero (being the Dragon Reborn) Did not Arthur Hawkwing confirm this at Falme. I have fought both with and against you before.  I know we have a RAFO re Mat and Perrin being tied to the wheel (although I would figure some of those battle memories are prior lives Mat lived

[wingedearth]

 

Back to the thread, What if Rand is holding the "Blade of light" and he links with the three(one man, possibly Logain, two women, Alivia and Nynaeve) becoming one with Callandor?  Rand could then be in control of the weaves.  He could also remember how to channel the storm cloud that he uses in Tear that destroy's every Fade and Trolloc. Going even farther out there, Callandor is the True Source and as an offensive weapon can be used to destroy "shadowspawn" NOT the enemy!  Light and Dark cannot coexist in the same spot.

 

What do you mean by "Callandor is the True Source..."? Are you saying that Callandor is an embodiment of the One Power?

[Express]

 

Back to the thread, What if Rand is holding the "Blade of light" and he links with the three(one man, possibly Logain, two women, Alivia and Nynaeve) becoming one with Callandor?  Rand could then be in control of the weaves.  He could also remember how to channel the storm cloud that he uses in Tear that destroy's every Fade and Trolloc. Going even farther out there, Callandor is the True Source and as an offensive weapon can be used to destroy "shadowspawn" NOT the enemy!  Light and Dark cannot coexist in the same spot.

 

What do you mean by "Callandor is the True Source..."? Are you saying that Callandor is an embodiment of the One Power?

 

Yes.  Callandor split balefire but the a'dan that Semirhage put around Rands neck was destroyed by balefire. It has to be something "more" but with the information we are given everything is just a guess.

[Sentinel78]

Yes.  Callandor split balefire but the a'dan that Semirhage put around Rands neck was destroyed by balefire. It has to be something "more" but with the information we are given everything is just a guess.

 

Semirhage didn't put an a'dam around Rand's neck.  A'dam are for women.  She used a Domination Band.  The Domination Band was not destroyed by balefire.  Balefire was used afterwards to kill Elza/Semirhage, but the Band was destroyed using something else.  BS indicated this version of the Domination Band was a copy that wasn't made of cuendillar, but that this is irrelevant to the scene, because the TP can destroy cuendillar.

[Express]

Yes.  Callandor split balefire but the a'dan that Semirhage put around Rands neck was destroyed by balefire. It has to be something "more" but with the information we are given everything is just a guess.

 

Semirhage didn't put an a'dam around Rand's neck.  A'dam are for women.  She used a Domination Band.  The Domination Band was not destroyed by balefire.  Balefire was used afterwards to kill Elza/Semirhage, but the Band was destroyed using something else.  BS indicated this version of the Domination Band was a copy that wasn't made of cuendillar, but that this is irrelevant to the scene, because the TP can destroy cuendillar.

 

Thank you for the correction.  I thought Rand had used balefire to break the band, sorry.  And thanks for making my point, "the TP can destroy cuendillar".

[al Gan]

After finishing the book again (3rd time)

I did noticed somthing in that prophecy. 

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands and the three will become one."

Rand has now only one hand. So for this prophecy to be fulfilled this hasto hapend:

 

1, Rand gets somkind of angreal hand of elayne.  In one of Mins visons she could see a hand (was it in silver)? over Elayne.

 

2, Rand dies and get a new body( Moridin)?

 

What you think?

[Calderis]

After finishing the book again (3rd time)

I did noticed somthing in that prophecy. 

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands and the three will become one."

Rand has now only one hand. So for this prophecy to be fulfilled this hasto hapend:

 

1, Rand gets somkind of angreal hand of elayne.  In one of Mins visons she could see a hand (was it in silver)? over Elayne.

 

2, Rand dies and get a new body( Moridin)?

 

What you think?

 

I honestly think the wording of the prophecy could be just saying he is the one wielding it. He could lose both his arms and be holding the sword with his teeth and still fulfill it. Some of them are literal yes, but prophecies to the letter is... taking half the fun out of prophecy. They're vague for a reason.

[Ramzrie]

I have always believed that Logain is the one that this is talking about.  He already has 2 aes sedai that he is bonded with to link with to buffer Callendor.  And I believe that he is the one to come after Rand to lead the black tower once Taim is destroyed.

[Chance]

Agree with Ramzrie. Have re-thought my original post about this meaning Rand, Mat and Perrin. In the camp now, that Logain wields callendor with some sisters.  The blade of light is likely callendor, and combine that with "who draws it out shall follow after". Narishima drew it out, but he was an ash'man. "Who can grasp that fearful blade". An ash'man can, and Logain is an ash'man.  There was also, the vision, viewing, that Logain steps over Rand, so the prophecy of following after could be Logain. It's tenous, but just a thought.

[DoomShorts]

Sorry this was probably already brought up but I skimmed over the first 7 pages and didn't see anything.

 

I personally thought that it was about the end of tGS when Rand is standing ontop of Dragonmount where he says he knew that he would never hear LTT's voice again, it was brought up just a few chapters before perhaps to bring it to mind for this scene.

The blade of light being the sunshine breaking through the clouds onto Rand/Dragonmounts peak. The way Egwene talks about it in the following chapter just made me think of it as a blade of light. And the 3 becoming one part reffering to 3 parts of Rand; the Icey Emotionless one, LTT and the whispering voice of the old Rand.

 

But then again it's probably just as simple as is explained in the book, with Rand in a circle with two female channelers.

 

Forgot to add:

Also in the little prophecy at the end: "At the end of time, when the many become one, the last storm shall gather its angry winds to destroy a land already dying. And at its center, the blind man shall stand upon his own grave. There he shall see again, and weep for what has been wrought."

It's obviously talking about Rand standing atop Dragonmount (His own grave) and the part 'when many become one' seems to lends evidence to multiple Rand personas merging theory.

[Valisbourne]

 

Forgot to add:

Also in the little prophecy at the end: "At the end of time, when the many become one, the last storm shall gather its angry winds to destroy a land already dying. And at its center, the blind man shall stand upon his own grave. There he shall see again, and weep for what has been wrought."

It's obviously talking about Rand standing atop Dragonmount (His own grave) and the part 'when many become one' seems to lends evidence to multiple Rand personas merging theory.

 

The many become one could also refer to the unification of the nations that is going on.  (taken in context, it could very well be Rand's soul unifying.  Although I keep trying to figure out where people talk about the Dragon Spirit, or Oversoul, or whatever...  I thought the only 'voice' in his head he talked with was LTT, not previous and even earlier versions of himself.  Illumination in that regard would be appreciated!)

[emyali]

regarding the earlier debates about a circle cannot consist of 2 men and one woman  ::)

 

i started reading the world of Robert's Jordan (well, i have to admit, i never read " the guide " before) :-[... i regret that now, its quiet interesting.

 

the next is quoted from the book.. chapter 2

 

"" Linking also has gender-based limitations due to the inherent differences of saidin and saidar. Men have the greater general strength in the Power, but women are essential for linking. Women can initiate a link; men cannot, though they can be part of it and even lead in certain circumstances. ""

 

"" Other gender mixes are possible in a link as well. The number of men in a circle is limited only by the fact that with the exceptions of the linking of one man and one woman or of two men and one woman (and, of course, two men and two women), there must always be at least one more woman in the circle than the number of men. Thus, three men would need four women to be in a circle together, four men would need five women, and so on. There can also be smaller circles than thirteen, whether of women alone or of men and women. ""

 

""  In most cases, either a man or a woman can control the link—this is called leading, focusing, or guiding—but in the case of a circle of seventy-two, a circle of only one man and one woman, or in most circles of up to thirteen which contain more than one man, a man must lead. Excepting the examples given above, and other circles of thirteen or less, a woman must lead where the minimum number of men are present  ""

 

 

this line too, may very well backup the thought i read earlier here *sorry i dont remember by who* that Callandor is not just a male sa'angreal, but work for both male and females

"" There are rumors of angreal and sa’angreal usable by both men and women, but they remain unconfirmed. ""

[jemron]

Cool.  Thanks for posting this info.  I do wonder if linking is a big part of the story that will come out in the Last Battle.

[b24shawn]

"" Linking also has gender-based limitations due to the inherent differences of saidin and saidar. Men have the greater general strength in the Power, but women are essential for linking. Women can initiate a link; men cannot, though they can be part of it and even lead in certain circumstances. ""

 

"" Other gender mixes are possible in a link as well. The number of men in a circle is limited only by the fact that with the exceptions of the linking of one man and one woman or of two men and one woman (and, of course, two men and two women), there must always be at least one more woman in the circle than the number of men. Thus, three men would need four women to be in a circle together, four men would need five women, and so on. There can also be smaller circles than thirteen, whether of women alone or of men and women. ""

 

""  In most cases, either a man or a woman can control the link—this is called leading, focusing, or guiding—but in the case of a circle of seventy-two, a circle of only one man and one woman, or in most circles of up to thirteen which contain more than one man, a man must lead. Excepting the examples given above, and other circles of thirteen or less, a woman must lead where the minimum number of men are present  ""

 

 

 

 

With all the discussion about the blade of light, 3 become 1 I wanted to point out something I think people have been confused about. To me it seems some believe that if Rand and any two women or Rand and one other man and woman link and wield Callandor that Rand will have to give up control. But the above quote clearly says that in a circle of one man and one woman, as well as in most circles of up to thirteen, A MAN MUST LEAD. Well just my two cents:)

[Cut Strand]

I'm sorry, but I think the idea of Tuon being the third person is, well, crazy. Sorry. Read Tuon's frequent POVs about channelling, like this one for example from KoD:

"I am nothing like these women, Toy. Nothing like them. Perhaps I could learn, but I choose not to, just as I choose not to steal or commit murder. That makes all the difference."

 

Or this from TGS:

 

"Her presence made Tuon shiver. One would think she'd have grown more accustomed to marath'damane,after traveling with Matrim. But not so. They were unnatural. Dangerous. Tuon could no more grow comfortable around an unleashed damane than she could tolerate having a grassfang twisted around her ankle, its tongue tickling her skin."

 

This doesn't sound like someone who will learn to channel herself.

I think nothing will convince Tuon that sul'dam and damane aren't any different until someone closes an a'dam around her throat.

 

But having Tuon in charge of a circle with Rand in it really does fulfill the concept of the Dragon submitting to the Empress's authority.

[emyali]

I think nothing will convince Tuon that sul'dam and damane aren't any different until someone closes an a'dam around her throat.

 

But having Tuon in charge of a circle with Rand in it really does fulfill the concept of the Dragon submitting to the Empress's authority.

 

Tuon already admited that she have the ability to channel for she said : "I am nothing like these women, Toy. Nothing like them. Perhaps I could learn, but I choose not to, just as I choose not to steal or commit murder. That makes all the difference."

 

by this stage she knows that the a'dam can hold her just as any damane or sul'dam.

her insistance on denying she is nothing like them, is due to heritage of centries of contempt and a profound distrust for all things Aes Sedai since Hawkwing days and his son, which grew deeper by the wars against Aes Sedai who ruled the seanchen nations and made open use of their power against him and his armies.

 

So.. her despise to the idea of being able to channel.. is a despise based on what she-and all her nation- believe to bone of the untrustworthy to Aes Sedai and everything related to them (First of all what makes Aes sedai an Aes Sedai, the ability to channel)

 

 

i've been always against the idea of Tuon finally channels, but now it kinda seem not very odd idea..

and maybe the three becoming one, doesnt mean three persons.. maybe it means the three continents of the wheel of time world..

but that will leave us to who from the madmen land!

(it doesnt seem that a whole continent-with lots of ppl able to channel- wont have its share in TG)!!

[Valisbourne]

"" Linking also has gender-based limitations due to the inherent differences of saidin and saidar. Men have the greater general strength in the Power, but women are essential for linking. Women can initiate a link; men cannot, though they can be part of it and even lead in certain circumstances. ""

 

"" Other gender mixes are possible in a link as well. The number of men in a circle is limited only by the fact that with the exceptions of the linking of one man and one woman or of two men and one woman (and, of course, two men and two women), there must always be at least one more woman in the circle than the number of men. Thus, three men would need four women to be in a circle together, four men would need five women, and so on. There can also be smaller circles than thirteen, whether of women alone or of men and women. ""

 

""  In most cases, either a man or a woman can control the link—this is called leading, focusing, or guiding—but in the case of a circle of seventy-two, a circle of only one man and one woman, or in most circles of up to thirteen which contain more than one man, a man must lead. Excepting the examples given above, and other circles of thirteen or less, a woman must lead where the minimum number of men are present  ""

 

 

 

 

With all the discussion about the blade of light, 3 become 1 I wanted to point out something I think people have been confused about. To me it seems some believe that if Rand and any two women or Rand and one other man and woman link and wield Callandor that Rand will have to give up control. But the above quote clearly says that in a circle of one man and one woman, as well as in most circles of up to thirteen, A MAN MUST LEAD. Well just my two cents:)

 

Working from memory here, and it's been awhile since I've read that book.  When Rand cleansed the source, Callandor was used in a linked group with a woman in charge of the group, wasn't it?  (like I said, it's been awhile, but I'm fairly sure a woman was in charge of that linkage.  I KNOW that some of the groups set up had men/women combos with women in charge of at least one.)

[Worm]

Ok first a bit about the Callandor thing. Callandor magnifies the taint in the person because it is faulty. If I channeled Saidin 100x as strong as I usually do the taint would be 100x as strong aswell (this does not usually happen, normally the sa'angreal has a buffer) and I would probably do crazy things like try and bring a dead child back to life.

 

The way to get around the insanity problem is to use Callandor in a circle with woman controlling the flows, they have never used tainted Saidin before so Callandor's fault will not affect them. Even though Saidin has now been cleansed if a channeler already dirtied by the taint tries to use Callandor it will magnify the taint in them while they are using it causing temporary insanity. This means that Rand does have to be in a circle if he wants to use Callandor.

 

I heard an interesting theory a few days ago, it said that Rand will use Callandor (and maybe some other sa'angreal) to channel as much of saidin and saidar as he can into the DO's broken prison. The effect of this will be to dilute the DO's power in some way forcing the DO to retreat for thousands of years while he attempts to get rid of the True Source that is flowing inside him. The bore will close of its own accord and it will seem as if Rand has slain the DO. (and the 3 becoming one will be the 3 powers being forced together, but not in that annoying way people keep suggesting, the DO ain't gonna let the true power be used against him)

 

This means that people will be unable to channel in the 4th age and all the inventions we have been seeing will become incredibly helpful. This will also allow for the physical fight to have some meaning - the Do has retreated but 100 million Trollocs full of murderous rage have attacked the forces of Light and if they can't win Rand's victory will have no meaning.

[jadelollipop]

Re: Tuon's refusal to learn to channel --I used to confuse the inborn spark and the ability to learn but upon rereading the Worlds of WOT it appears that those with the inborn spark will eventually channel and therefore must be trained but those with the ability to learn could live long lives and never be taught to channel. One reason some Ashaman are older men having aged prior to being taught.

If no one teaches Tuon then she will never channel.