Concerning Min, Mat and Tom's Knives-And Mats Skill With Ashanderi Vs His Knives

[The Fisher King]

This is a Spin Off from General Forum about Fantasy Characters with Certain Trademark Weapons...

 

I got to thinking, which always hurts my head to do, buuuut...

 

1 How would you rate Mat's skill level with his Throwing Knives vs his skill level with his Ashanderi ???

 

Basically, if you were mat Cauthon and in a tight spot and you could only have one of your two trademark weapons that you excelled with (Knives or Ashanderi), which would you want to be fighting for your life with - if YOU were Mat???

 

2 For that matter, would you rate Mat the equal of Thom when fighting with knives?

 

3 Lastly...Would you rate Min an equal in Knife-Fighting skill with The Grey Fox - Or with Mat, for that matter???

 

I would say that Mat is a ''Knife Master'' (having fun with playing off 'blademaster' lol) and he and Thom would be equal except for the fact that Mat's youth gives him a bit quicker reflexes that Ol Thom...though Thom is crafty...I would rate Min as AWESOME with knoves, but not QUITE a ''Master'' ... I would say that Mat is probably a LITTLE bit better with his Ashanderi just because it is The Trickster's Weapon Of Phrophecy ... Or so say The Snakey Folk...in other words, Mat was born to weild it...

 

JMO

 

 

Fish

[OptimusPrime]

I think Mat would be better with the Ashanderei than he is with the knives.

[The Fisher King]

I agree with you Optimus Prime.

 

BUT. ... The REASON that I think he is is because of Prophecy and The Snakey Folk and The Pattern.

 

If those factors were not involved...I think he would be equally adept with his Throwing Knives and his Ashanderi.

 

His coordination and reflexes, sense of balance, level of quickness etc...would be the exact same.

 

 

But. Mat seems to have been BORN to wield the Ahsanderi ... Its Prohpecied and it is a gift from a race of creatures that is very much NOT mortal...plus, The Pattern will provide what it needs it instruments (Like Tav'eren) to have.

 

 

 

Fish

[Muad Cheade]

Mat seems to be better with his ashandarei than knives but we all know that since he doesn't like close combat since "a man could get killed in there," he probably would prefer using his throwing knives.

 

Thom seems to be the best as he was able to somewhat hold his own against the Myrdraal and in the brawl in KoD, came away with less wounds than Mat.

 

Min's skills seem to be more flashy and showy but she did nail Semirhage in the neck in KoD.

 

To be quite honest, throwing knives are the most unrealistic weapons to use as the tip of the weapon is only pointing forward during its 360 degree rotation.

[ed2funy]

1. I think Thom has said that Mat has exceptional skill.....

 

So, i think he is a "knifemaster" (good name Fish{er} King)...

BUT, he is way better with the Ashanderi....

 

Partly prophecy....but also he was already awesome as hell with a quaterstaff....and once he made up for the different weight balance...he was even more badass....

 

throwing knives run out....a staff is more stable (unless ur dumb and loose your hold and let it get sent flying away from you...lol)....

 

2. I believe is more than equal to Thom, maybe not in craftiness or experience, but sheer skill in wielding them...more that equal!

 

3. Min is more of a showy person...(like Muad Cheade says)....she can flip them around and make them swim around her fingers....but she is not as good as Mat or Thom in wielding and even though she probably has about the same experience time as Mat, she is just not as good....

[Mr Ares]

Which weapon to use depends on circumstances. At very close quarters, a knife would be better. At longer range than his ashandarei can reach, use a throwing knife, or a bow. When faced with a lot of enemies, perhaps the Band is the best weapon to use. So if he was in a tight spot, which weapon to use would be determined by that. As for which he is better with, impossible to determine.

[The Fisher King]

ed2funy and Mr Ares:

 

Thanks for the input! :)

 

I definitely think Min enjoys being a bit Flashy, but I think shes pretty good...you are right though that we probably have not seen enough of her in bad situations to place her near the same level as Thom or Mat with Throwing Knives...I was probably reaching for her...overestimating her ability without enough substance...I do, very much, however, believe she is probably quite adept, and not too far behinf the other 2 in terms of skill level

 

 

I totally understand about situational factors dictating what would be a combatant's weapon of choice...obviously if your for is quite a ways from you, a Quarterstaff wouldn't be what you wanted...it just seems like, whereas Mat is extrordinary with Knives...he is SPECIAL in his ability to weild the Ashanderi...probably because he was ''Born'' to weild it.

 

 

As for Perrin...I think alot of readers have gotten confused...he is not a good warrior with his Hammer...He is not Thor (as Mat is Odin) to carry around a WarHammer...he fights, and fights disturbingly well to him, with The AXE...its his dream to one day be able to pick back up The Hammer and throw away the Axe...Lan even said to him one day that he would know he was free from liking fighting when he threw the Axe away...

 

 

 

Fish

[ed2funy]

i don't think she is that close though....

 

let me make a "bar"

this is where i would place them....

 

Olver is just for fun......  :P

 

____________________________________Olver___________________Min______________________Thom__Mat

cannot pick up                                                                                                  Master

a knife without

stabbing urself

[The Fisher King]

Thats a cool (and funny) bar.

 

 

 

 

Fish

[ed2funy]

lol...thanks...

 

is that how you place them or is Min closer in you Opinion?

[The Fisher King]

Thats a very good question. About Min, I mean.

 

One thing I forget sometimes is that she is actually not a *girl* in the way that Mat and Perrin and Rand are *boys* ... Min is a few years older than them. I would be very very curious to know Min's age in relation to Nynaneve's, who is also a few years older that Rand, Perrin, Mat and Ewgwene.

 

She is older and talks about being rather street-savy early on, that she had been forced to be by growing up as an attractive girl on the streets. She is experienced and not likely to be overwhelmed in unsettling situations.

 

Shes also fairly agile. Now, she is a female, true, and GENERALLY SPEAKING she would not have the same physical strength of a male, like Thom or Mat, but, strength isn't nearly as important when using Throwing Knives...touch, accuracy, deftness and agility are more important, and I would feel safe in saying it has been implied that she is well above average in those areas.

 

I would guess that she is probably, at this time, the most skilled female Knife Fighter in the world. ... I would suspect that she would be in the top quarter among men. I think Thom may well be the all-time best. I would rate Mat next. But, think of the many years of experience Thom has and the unnatural coordination posessed by Mat.

 

To me, despite her visions, which have no effect on physical skills, Min is by far the most ''ordinary.''

 

Thats a rather long-winded way of saying what I have felt since the beginning, that it goes Thom, Mat, Min ... But, it does still bug me that alot more of Min's skill seems shrouded in mystery whereas we know wuite abit about Mat and Thom's.

 

 

Fish

[Weiramon Award]

Is the bottom of the knife scale "I've never used a knife as a weapon, but I know which side is the handle" or "I don't know how, but I bet I'm going to get cut by that"?

[ed2funy]

the bottom is "I've never used a knife as a weapon, but I know which side is the handle," though you will still cut yourself!!! lol

 

the sub-level being "I don't know how, but I bet I'm going to get cut by that." that is just the retard level....lmao....

 

[Mr Ares]

I totally understand about situational factors dictating what would be a combatant's weapon of choice...obviously if your for is quite a ways from you, a Quarterstaff wouldn't be what you wanted...it just seems like, whereas Mat is extrordinary with Knives...he is SPECIAL in his ability to weild the Ashanderi...probably because he was ''Born'' to weild it.

Well, Finn memories are the best explanation for his instant mastery of it.

 

As for Perrin...I think alot of readers have gotten confused...he is not a good warrior with his Hammer...He is not Thor (as Mat is Odin) to carry around a WarHammer...he fights, and fights disturbingly well to him, with The AXE...its his dream to one day be able to pick back up The Hammer and throw away the Axe...Lan even said to him one day that he would know he was free from liking fighting when he threw the Axe away...

Actually, I think you're confused. Painful experience though it may be, many of us have read Crossroads of Twilight. In that book, Perrin throws away his axe. In KoD, during the Battle of malden, Perrin does indeed fight with his hammer. Not a warhammer, thoguh, you're right about that, it's the blacksmith's hammer he was given in TDR. Now, he might wish to give up fighting, but I'm sure Rolan would be of the opinion that he hasn't yet, if he hadn't had his brains pulped by the aforementioned hammer.

 

As for Min, we've not really seen any indication of skill, beyond her ability to do flashy things. She might be good and flashy, or just flashy. The best she has managed was sticking Semi, but Semi didn't seem unduly bothered by it.

[Impressive Bosom]

I didn't see this mentioned, but if you remember Matt gave several members of the Younglings-to-be a thumping (wasn't it Gawayn AND Galad at the same time?) in the courtyard at Tar Valon, prompting Hammar to tell them about how Gaidal Cain, the greatest swordsman in the world, was only ever defeated by a simple farmer with a quaterstaff. This happened WAY before Matt had ever developed into the general and warrior he is by now... so while I think his weapon of choice would be throwing knives, if only to stay out of close combat, he's probably better with the Ashanderi.

[redarm]

Perrrin did indeed throw the axe away and was able to fight his way to Faile through the Shaido camp with his Hammer.  He is a decent warrior no matter the weapon.  He relys on strength and guile and a whole lot of heart and courage.  No OP to help him here.  As for Mat he is obviously very good with his knives but the Ashenderi seems to be where it is at for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he was exceptional with any weapon you put in his hand due to his memories.  He is probably more than good with a TR bow and i'm sure at least a few of those memories were of men with swords.  I'd love to see him with one.  Anyway, Mat is probably a master or close to it with all of the above.  Not the OP here either.  Just knowledge.

[Sharaman]

I agree with you Optimus Prime.

 

BUT. ... The REASON that I think he is is because of Prophecy and The Snakey Folk and The Pattern.

 

If those factors were not involved...I think he would be equally adept with his Throwing Knives and his Ashanderi.

 

His coordination and reflexes, sense of balance, level of quickness etc...would be the exact same.

 

 

But. Mat seems to have been BORN to wield the Ahsanderi ... Its Prohpecied and it is a gift from a race of creatures that is very much NOT mortal...plus, The Pattern will provide what it needs it instruments (Like Tav'eren) to have.

 

 

 

Fish

 

Where is it prophesied that he's born to wield a Naginata, I mean A'shandaerei? 

[The Fisher King]

Mr Ares...

 

Does it make me weird that every time I reread through COT I like it more and more...?

 

When it first came out and I read it, I stayed offline and away from reviews to not bias myself...HATED it. Thought it was the most dry, boring, wasteful, inconsequential book ever.

 

 

Everytime I reread it though, I find more and more to like in it. Mat shooting a woman in the back...Perrin and Elyas...The Peddler Dude getting eatin up by Mr Evil Quicksand...Darkhounds....The Messana/SH Part .... and ALOT MORE stuff...now, if you want to say that several interesting BITS do not make a novel whole, or an overall flow, then, that would be a worthy discussion. Don't get me wrong, COT is in my bottom 2 in the series, along with POD (and my dislike of POD actually has very little to do with the absence of Cauthon - its just a boring book), I will say though, that every time I read through it I seem to stumble across more 'cool' parts. Aqgain, JMO.

 

As for Hammer/Axe...you are right..Well, i DID say he threw the axe away...But, I think I said Lan chatted with him which was dumb (im not good with names, but I always remember a ...actually, im not that great with faces either) it was of course Elyas...BUT...I do stand by his hatred of the axe and his desire to be to one day be able to throw away the axe and pick up once and for all the Blacksmith's Hammer and use it to create, not destroy.

 

 

 

SHARAMAN....Well...The Snakey Folk make the ''Mat Prophecies'' and at the same time they are doing so they put the Ashanderi in his hands...

 

 

 

 

Fish

[Sharaman]

SHARAMAN....Well...The Snakey Folk make the ''Mat Prophecies'' and at the same time they are doing so they put the Ashanderi in his hands...

 

Fish

 

The Snakes make the prophesy. The Foxes hang Mat using the Ashanderei as a cross piece for their makeshift gallows. The Foxes don't make any prophesies and I don't think the weapon features anywhere in any prophesy.

[ed2funy]

As for Min, we've not really seen any indication of skill, beyond her ability to do flashy things. She might be good and flashy, or just flashy. The best she has managed was sticking Semi, but Semi didn't seem unduly bothered by it.

 

We have seen her shoot at other things....

When her and rand were in the bedroom in Far Madding, and I think it was cadsuane who walked in...there was a knife in the door.....

 

She shot her knives at Fain, and she barely missed, though i would not say that is a lack of skill...

 

Umm...I believe she shot at someone or something in one of the palaces...