Mesaana (Full Spoilers)

[JakeBarnes]

It wasn't like she wasn't expecting the summons. She was already with Demandred, for one. They asked for the meeting in the first place.

However, it still doesn't make a lot of sense for her to change cloths just to go see Demandred, seeing as how she doesn't care much for such things. And because white is the color of grief, nobody but a White would wear a totally white dress. And I guess she would most likely wear the same dress she intends her mask of mirrors to show. So, yeah, that's a good idea.

 

Actually, we have seen Mesaana mask her dress when she visits Alviarin, so there is nothing to say that she doesn't mask it at other times as well.  (TPOD, Chapter 25)

[Aquarius]

Actually, we have seen Mesaana mask her dress when she visits Alviarin, so there is nothing to say that she doesn't mask it at other times as well.  (TPOD, Chapter 25)

I find it hard to believe (not to say more) that she would hide her dress on other occasions. She hides her dress so that Alvi can't recognise her, so Alvi knows her real dress. So she doesn't walk the Tower grounds hiding her tower. as for hiding her dress in front of Chosen it's also probably pointless. (and it would require channelling in a place that may forbid it)

[mossman87]

That's interesting to know she wore a white dress, but really if her wearing a brown dress is just a red herring then her wearing a white dress can be just as much one.

 

Can't wait to find out finally.

[Sharaman]

Yeah, could be a red herring.

But we've also had this repeated drama about how there's so much suspicion in the Tower that most AS will wear ensembles including their Ajah colours.

First time, with Alviarin, she's wearing a bronze hem,

Second time with Shaidar, she's wearing green with bronze (could be the same dress as first time).

Then at the Chosens' Garden tea-party, she's stll wearing bronze.

This time around in TGS, she's wearing pure white.

No, she's not pretending to be a novice - the past two times in the Tower, she was definitely wearing working togs and there is just too evidence against her being a novice.

A full AS could wear white and offset with her shawl of whatever colour.

Or of course, she's changed for the Meeting.

 

 

 

 

[mossman87]

Has there been any White Ajah candidates people have talked about?  Just names are fine if people don't have the time to explain it, I can research them.

[JakeBarnes]

Has there been any White Ajah candidates people have talked about?  Just names are fine if people don't have the time to explain it, I can research them.

 

The only ones that have been around long enough to even warrant discussion are:  Norine (doesn't do much, but introduced in ACOS), Seaine Herimon (hunting the black ajah, so NO).  Curiously though, based on the fact that

[KoD,Prologue � There are barely more than twenty of the White Ajah still in the White Tower. ] (EWOT)

we were introduced to almost half of the white sisters in the tower during KOD Prologue. 

 

Unless, of course, she is serial-posing as several sisters.

[lordrains]

does it ever say she is posing as aes sedai? she could be masking her ability and pretending to be some black sisters servant like halima.

[yoniy0]

does it ever say she is posing as aes sedai? she could be masking her ability and pretending to be some black sisters servant like halima.

Graendal says she's having Mesaana watched, and that she's posing as a sister. Whether or not that's good enough for you is your own decision :)

[lordrains]

thats good enough for me

[thewalrus777]

Good enough for me as well. Why would the Chosen lie to themselves?

 

[lillcheese]

While I think Graendal is correct, we don't know what proof she has to believe it.  Any time one of our characters bases their conclusions on spy reports, it should be considered whether the spy might have been fed false info.  We have numerous examples of this happening during the series.  Graendal's conclusion may even be based solely on Messy's psych profile and her hiding in the WT. 

 

Again, Graendal is PROBABLY correct, but her thoughts do not establish it conclusively, IMHO.

[Sharaman]

RJ said, and BS reiterated, that there's enough info for readers to have worked out Messi's id post-CoT.

I'm assuming RJ didn't mean "random Tower servant who pushes trays around" when he said the ID can be worked out - there should be a name attached to the secret ID.

We know she's in the White Tower.

Random tower servants haven't been named.

Laras can be ruled out because Messi's wearing a green-bronze silk dress at midday, when Laras wears a white smock and she's constantly under the eye of/ in charge of dozens of under-cooks and maids and very well-known to all AS.

 

There are no major descriptions of named Tower Novices and Accepted (as opposed to Salidar N & A ) except for the wonder-girls between TDR and CoT, which is approximately the time period Messi must have been active (Verin meets her before going to the Two Rivers). There are also good reasons for Messi not to pretend to be a N&A - constant supervision, lack of privacy, being forced to take lessons where she would have to hide her strength and ability carefully. 

 

There are plenty of AS described and named.

So yes, Messi is posing as an AS.

Graendal's PoV does suggest she is having a specific As watched.

 

[Aquarius]

There are no major descriptions of named Tower Novices and Accepted (as opposed to Salidar N & A ) except for the wonder-girls between TDR and CoT, which is approximately the time period Messi must have been active (Verin meets her before going to the Two Rivers). There are also good reasons for Messi not to pretend to be a N&A - constant supervision, lack of privacy, being forced to take lessons where she would have to hide her strength and ability carefully. 

 

There are plenty of AS described and named.

So yes, Messi is posing as an AS.

Graendal's PoV does suggest she is having a specific As watched.

This is mostly very reasonable. A few thoughts on this :

- a Chosen can very easily compulse a teacher (wether AS or Accepted) to end the lesson quickly and let her do what she wants.

- Verin said that Messaana was here, ok, did she actually say that she had met her ??? Can't remember that. If yes, then She must have been here for a very long time. Verin got trapped in the Two Rivers right before the Whitecloacks and then it took all the time for the news to reach Tear for Perrin to move. Perrin moves in book 4 if I remember correctly.

[Sharaman]

There are no major descriptions of named Tower Novices and Accepted (as opposed to Salidar N & A ) except for the wonder-girls between TDR and CoT, which is approximately the time period Messi must have been active (Verin meets her before going to the Two Rivers). There are also good reasons for Messi not to pretend to be a N&A - constant supervision, lack of privacy, being forced to take lessons where she would have to hide her strength and ability carefully. 

 

There are plenty of AS described and named.

So yes, Messi is posing as an AS.

Graendal's PoV does suggest she is having a specific As watched.

 

This is mostly very reasonable. A few thoughts on this :

 

- a Chosen can very easily compulse a teacher (wether AS or Accepted) to end the lesson quickly and let her do what she wants.

- Verin said that Messaana was here, ok, did she actually say that she had met her ??? Can't remember that. If yes, then She must have been here for a very long time. Verin got trapped in the Two Rivers right before the Whitecloacks and then it took all the time for the news to reach Tear for Perrin to move. Perrin moves in book 4 if I remember correctly.

 

A Chosen may prefer not to have to use Compulsion on entire bunches of teachers and N&A on a daily, perhaps hourly basis. If you have dozens of women (all her classmates and teachers) wandering around in a daze much of the time, she may as well end up having to use Compulsion on the entire WT. Also the chances of a slip, revealing she has an extremely high strength in the power is higher, if she's continuously having to use her power and do all sorts of beginner's weaves. According to RJ, partial masking of strength is more difficult to do than full masking.

 

Verin said "-- the two times I met her, she was so shrouded I couldn't tell (who she was)". Yes, this must have been before Verin went off to the Two Rivers because she hadn't returned to the Tower in between. So Messi's been there  since TDR

 

[StefanR]

What ajah was the AS that got put down to being a novice, and then ran over to Egwene's AS? She was the same one who gave a hint of some sort to Siuan wasn't she?

 

It would explain Mesanna hiding in the tower previous to that book, and then explain her wearing white in the beginning of TGS.

 

Although Graendal says she has people watching her, and that she's posing as an AS, so I dunno

[Aquarius]

 

A Chosen may prefer not to have to use Compulsion on entire bunches of teachers and N&A on a daily, perhaps hourly basis. If you have dozens of women (all her classmates and teachers) wandering around in a daze much of the time, she may as well end up having to use Compulsion on the entire WT. Also the chances of a slip, revealing she has an extremely high strength in the power is higher, if she's continuously having to use her power and do all sorts of beginner's weaves. According to RJ, partial masking of strength is more difficult to do than full masking.

 

Verin said "-- the two times I met her, she was so shrouded I couldn't tell (who she was)". Yes, this must have been before Verin went off to the Two Rivers because she hadn't returned to the Tower in between. So Messi's been there  since TDR

 

I agree. I was just pointing out possible workarounds.

[yoniy0]

What ajah was the AS that got put down to being a novice, and then ran over to Egwene's AS?

Shemerin is of the Yellow. She was repeatedly beaten by Silviana, and is still considered by Egwene to be a full sister, so she was probably forced to retake the Oaths along with the rest of them (more importantly, I see no reason for Mesaana to assume she wouldn't be).

I don't see her as Mesaana, but I can think of no concrete argument against her.

[mossman87]

The smirk from Danelle when Siuan got booted is enough for me, let alone all the other evidence for her.

[JakeBarnes]

The smirk from Danelle when Siuan got booted is enough for me, let alone all the other evidence for her.

 

I halfway agree here.  Most of me is still on the Danelle train, but the quote from RJ was that readers SHOULD have enough information before COT, and CERTAINLY will after COT.  What Happened in COT to make further point the finger at Danelle?

[bronnt]

The smirk from Danelle when Siuan got booted is enough for me, let alone all the other evidence for her.

 

I halfway agree here.  Most of me is still on the Danelle train, but the quote from RJ was that readers SHOULD have enough information before COT, and CERTAINLY will after COT.  What Happened in COT to make further point the finger at Danelle?

 

Physical descriptions of Mesaana.  She has big blue eyes, like Danelle, and she's seen in a Brown dress, when most of the people in the Tower are wearing Ajah colors.  You basically should know at this point that you're looking for someone physically similar, and Danelle fits that better than most any other Brown we know.

[rollthedice]

Hello everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

 

Let me post a suspect I have not seen and a brief overview of why.

 

Doesin Alwain  - Sitter for the Yellow, one hunters of the Black in the WT.  Has no warder

 

She appeared to be trying to find out what the heads of the ajahs were up to with Yukiri, Saerin and Talene (which was one of Mesaana's tasks).  She swore she was not "Black Ajah" on the rod, not "darkfriend".  Thus she may have defeated the "Purge".

 

Her back was to the door (ready to scat) when they confronted the original Hunters.  Her skirt hem was close enough in color (dark bronze / gold  / and black).

 

She alone knew how to operate the Chair of Remorse (AOL Relic) and said it had been a long time since she operated it.

 

She alone wanted them to make all sisters in the tower take the oath to obey them, but everyone ignored her.  How nice it could have been for her to only have to kill 4 AS and have control of every sister in the tower. 

 

When Alviarin summoned Mesaana after being fired as keeper, Mesaana seemed to already know about it.  This is because she was with the rest of the sitters and Alviarin when she was told.  The sitters left before Alviarin.  When Alviarin got back to her quarters, Doesine would be available as Mesaana.

 

Alviarin wanted her and Yukiri watched.  I'm sure Alviarin had her suspicions too.

 

That is my vote for the most likely suspect.  I'm just shocked that no-one else sees it.  Some of you blow me away with your knowledge of the series.

 

Dig in folks and try to tear it up.

 

[JakeBarnes]

Alviarin wanted Doesine and Yukiri watched because she put two and two together when Talene deferred to the two of them during a meeting in COT Chapter 21.  It was suspicious behavior.

 

I agree that Mesaana posing as a Sitter would connect a few dots, but I feel the beter choice when pointing fingers at a Sitter is Shevan.

[StefanR]

Alviarin wanted Doesine and Yukiri watched because she put two and two together when Talene deferred to the two of them during a meeting in COT Chapter 21.  It was suspicious behavior.

 

I agree that Mesaana posing as a Sitter would connect a few dots, but I feel the beter choice when pointing fingers at a Sitter is Shevan.

 

What makes you think that?

 

I'm not dismissing it, merely curios as to the evidence

[morkhon]

The smirk from Danelle when Siuan got booted is enough for me, let alone all the other evidence for her.

 

I halfway agree here.  Most of me is still on the Danelle train, but the quote from RJ was that readers SHOULD have enough information before COT, and CERTAINLY will after COT.  What Happened in COT to make further point the finger at Danelle?

CoT prologue, after Alvarian meets with Elaida she's returning to her quarters and notices..

'The only one to ignore her was Danelle, a dreamy Brown sister. She had been part of bringing down Siuan Sanche and raising Elaida, but lost in her own thoughts, a solitary with no friends even in her own Ajah, she seemed unaware that she had been shoved aside.'

 

I just put a lot of stock in very subtle comments like that. The fact Danelle was the only sister to ignore Alvarian, for example. There's a reason RJ puts in a line like that.

 

Also, if you go back and read the chapter where Siuan gets taken down you'll notice a few things. She's shielded before any of them embrace saider. Some have argued she can't possible look at all dozen Sisters to check for the glow. Nonsense. She clearly pays very careful attention to the shawl of each woman, and what Ajah they're a part of. So she studied each woman and saw no glow. Yet was shielded. So clearly one of those women was Mesaana, who can hide her channeling. There's also two small comments about Danelee in the passage:

 

'...came close behind with Danelle, her big blue eyes not dreamy at all.' As well as 'Little Danelle actually smirked at her.'

 

Why such a shift from her usual dreamy, unconcerned state?

[Thetheroo]

I don't know if someones already said this but could messana be sharina melloy because they obviously didn't make the novices swear the oaths and she seems strong enough one hole in the theory however is that it doesebt make sense that she would warn siuan about lelaine trying to scare the sisters into making her armylin because lelaine would probably keep the tower in the state of chaos it's in which would be good for the dark one