Demandred (Full Spoilers).

[Nimic]

You ain't seen nothing yet. Off the top of my head, for example, I know the first time we see Darlin is in the Stone of Tear, fighting Mat, in TDR. And that he leaves the day after it falls to Rand, to begin raising support for a rebellion, and Rand appreciates his honesty (as so many others profess loyalty and scheme behind his back). And I'm not even the most knowledgeable around here.

 

Yeah, when I did a reread a while back I suddenly realized that Darlin was the High Lord Mat fought, the one that said he'd strip their skin off them while they were alive. That sort of put a dampener on my "Darlin is alright" mood. Then again, people change.

[Rand Skywalker]

IMHO, I think the order of places D is most likely in goes:

1) With the Borderlanders, especially post-TGS.  This is a big force in the middle of Rand's armies that has been acting very suspicious. 

2) Pulling strings w/ the Black Tower.  I don't think Osan'gar would be trusted enough by the DO to be looking after the BT by himself, and it just fits SO well with the action in LoC ("have I not done well?")

3) Murandy (with the "events in the south")

4) Pulling strings w/ the Seanchan.  It would make some sense, considering how the Ever Victorious Army fought Rand to a draw (I know, Callandor was acting up) and how Demandred is reputed such a good general.

[Mr Ares]

Mr Ares:

 

''And I'm not even the most knowledgeable around here.''

 

Did HE really just say THAT???!!!

 

...after years of browsing here...*<Falls Over>*

 

;)

 

Fish

Yes. I'm the best looking, and most amazing, but not (quite) the most knowledgeable.

[kukster]

I think Taim is Demandred.

 

The most poignant clue is in LoC where taim shakes with anger when Rand tells him that the men will think more of Taim since he got his collar dragon from Rand himself.

Combine that with what we know of Demandred not being happy with whatever honors he got from Lews - Infact Lews reminisces that the more honor he gave the more the other hated him.

 

Also "Let the Lord of Chaos rule " by taim at the end of KoD.

 

His army could mean that he has a bunch of co-opted black tower people.

 

Taim escapes the Aes Sedai guarding him - or the he+Black Ajah guarding (if any) kill taim and he takes his place.

[analyticalkeys]

I think Taim is Demandred.

 

The most poignant clue is in LoC where taim shakes with anger when Rand tells him that the men will think more of Taim since he got his collar dragon from Rand himself.

Combine that with what we know of Demandred not being happy with whatever honors he got from Lews - Infact Lews reminisces that the more honor he gave the more the other hated him.

 

Also "Let the Lord of Chaos rule " by taim at the end of KoD.

 

His army could mean that he has a bunch of co-opted black tower people.

 

RJ has already said that Taim is not Demandred.

[mike-cook]

Maybe the Lord of Chaos is Demandred.

I never understood how in the prologue of book 6 when the Dark One tells Demandred about his plan to let the lord of chaos rule, that tears of joy started streaming down his face? Like why would Demandred be happy that Rand is staying alive at the dark ones command, wouldnt he want him dead asap. And Taim saying that phrase at the end of book 11 could mean Demandred, perhaps Demandred will rise up and rule in these last 2 books somehow? who knows

[Ashamandragoran]

I think Taim is Demandred.

 

The most poignant clue is in LoC where taim shakes with anger when Rand tells him that the men will think more of Taim since he got his collar dragon from Rand himself.

Combine that with what we know of Demandred not being happy with whatever honors he got from Lews - Infact Lews reminisces that the more honor he gave the more the other hated him.

 

Also "Let the Lord of Chaos rule " by taim at the end of KoD.

 

His army could mean that he has a bunch of co-opted black tower people.

 

Taim escapes the Aes Sedai guarding him - or the he+Black Ajah guarding (if any) kill taim and he takes his place.

 

This was debated for a long time but RJ refuted it. There is also plenty of evidence against it such as Demandred not recognizing Ashaman in the battle at Shadar Logoth.

 

But Demandred is definitly involved in the BT. Probably a number of other places as well.

 

[analyticalkeys]

The Lord of Chaos is not a person, just an order to spread dissent and disharmony.

[WolfDragonFox]

Okay, so after offically closing one identity mystery(IMO) I didn't get a reply from my partner in crime moffwolf on who to solve next and so I am restless right now so have decided to undertake this case...lol

 

I am going to gather evidence by re-reading the series, (long road ahead w/ my schedule) but here is where I am leaning!  I think that Demandred is not only posing as one of the good guys, but I believe him to be AN ACTUAL GOOD GUY!!!  This is the path I have chosen, lets see if I find my way...wish me skill, cuz apparently all the luck is taken (FLAMING BLOODY MATRIM!!!)

[moffwolf]

wolfdragonfox- Been a little busy this weekend heeding RJ's advice to the guy who asked about the possibility of balefire through a gateway. My theory is that he is in the borderlands.  My big clue for that is that some one had to stir up the borderlanders to do something so crazy.  It reeks of forsaken, and he's the only one we can't account for.  I think it's a good base from which to mess with the rest of the world if he sets up as as advisor at Arafel or one of the others.  That's all I had going though.  The rest of the world didn't seem to fit for various reasons already mentioned. 

 

Ryamano put a much better case together for it.  I can't really add any thing to it right now. 

[Ged]

Just a comment: It wouldn't really matter if Sea Folk are ruled by women. Demandred would ultimately be compelling someone into obedience... probably. So he could have a female puppet.

 

As for Shara - that does raise interesting possibilities. What if Demandred decided to access the pool of male channelers there. A decent bunch of male sparkies would make things interesting.

[Shard]

Just a comment: It wouldn't really matter if Sea Folk are ruled by women. Demandred would ultimately be compelling someone into obedience... probably. So he could have a female puppet.

 

As for Shara - that does raise interesting possibilities. What if Demandred decided to access the pool of male channelers there. A decent bunch of male sparkies would make things interesting.

 

Caemlyn is ruled by Queens and yet Rhavin had no problem taking over there.

[WolfDragonFox]

I also agree with the borderland theory to a degree, it is my favored opinion but even if he is with them I'm trying to figure out whether or not he is gonna be that 1 forsaken that turns good.  We know he only turned to the shadow because of LTT, not that he was actually evil.  I love the Verin being a light spy in the shadow, and hope she remains the only one of her kind for either side, tho of course BA was her opposite i guess but what if Demandred is good now.  The reason he cried tears of joy to not kill Rand but let chaos rule is because he could now NOT work against Rand but use his positioning and army to FLANK the shadow when they don't see it comming!  WAY OUT THERE I know but these mystery has been so Kerfluffing that I'm thinking out of the Stasis Box...lol

[Vulgir]

.  We know he only turned to the shadow because of LTT, not that he was actually evil.  I love the Verin being a light spy in the shadow, and hope she remains the only one of her kind for either side, tho of course BA was her opposite i guess but what if Demandred is good now.  The reason he cried tears of joy to not kill Rand but let chaos rule is because he could now NOT work against Rand but use his positioning and army to FLANK the shadow when they don't see it comming!  WAY OUT THERE I know but these mystery has been so Kerfluffing that I'm thinking out of the Stasis Box...lol

 

Dumb. Get back in the stasis box.

[Ryamano]

I also like the Borderlands theory. Queen Tenobia's behavior prior to joining the other kings of the Borderlands kind of shows that she's under the influence of the shadow. Rahvin as Gaebril controlled each Aes Sedai sent to counsel Morgaise. Demandred (if on Tenobia's and Easar's court) made them dismiss each Aes Sedai sent to them by the WT, except for those 13 that are with the army now. Borderlanders really respect AS (look at Shienarans in the first two books) so why would they start dismissing them? I tell you, they're under the influence of the Shadow.

 

Going away with 200,000 soldiers as well is very suspicious. If they wanted to talk to Rand the best thing was to send emisaries, not to go themselves with an army (really, what's the point? Also it'd cost a lot to feed that army all the way to their destination point, so they're wasting money and resources, since they're going back to the borderlands once they're finished talking with Rand).

 

Having a meeting with him in Far Madding is suspicious as well. Once they got there they must have heard of how he was treated there. Also they wouldn't know that he was going crazy, so no need to fear. Unlike Gawyn they don't think he killed Morgase, since they talked with Elayne. Also they'd have only good words from the new king of Tear. Therefore it looks like a trap. Like Demandred used compulsion on all of them and told them to go away with a huge army on a goose chase, wasting resources and making a trap for Rand.

 

If he was in Saldea he could have helped in Mazrim Taim's escape as well. He could have ordered MT to keep an eye on Rand and to not kill him (only Dem can kill him! Mwahahahaha!). Therefore the comment on Osan'gar and Dem watching Rand would make sense. But Demandred would have never been in the BT, meeting Taim only in the WoD or something like that. That'd explain his lack of knowledge about Asha'man.

 

I also agree that Dem has influenced Masema. It makes sense.

Adding to my previous post, another reason Demandred could be in the borderlands is his modus operandi. It's said he likes to use proxies. I think Demandred used compulsion on the Borderlanders kings and queens for some time but then sent then away. It's difficult to control 4 rulers (we've never seen a forsaken doing so, they usually control only one), but it's not so difficult controlling 4 darkfriends (they usually obey out of fear). So he could use compulsion to make the rulers appoint darkfriends as their stewards, ruling in their places. And he could easily control the DF from behind the scenes, fitting the "likes to use proxies" description. Also he wouldn't be impersonating the 4 stewards because it'd be difficult to explain his absence for the time he needs to be impersonating another. At most he'd be the steward of just one of the kingdoms.

[moffwolf]

Ryamano- as I said before, great stuff.  Nothing else really fits for me right now.  To put a more specific guess on it, I'd guess Kandor or Arafel simply because the other two are known to have such strong leaders as Tenobia and Agelmar (though he's just a general there).  Of course, Rahvin was able to sway morgase but that required constant attention. 

 

On another note, I do not believe this is a mystery RJ or BS said that we should have figured out by now.  I think all we can do is speculate on this one. 

[b9anders]

The Lord of Chaos is not a person, just an order to spread dissent and disharmony.

 

I think it is both. Spread dissent and chaos were possible, but also - use the Dragon to orchestrate it.

[dholm]

Just a comment: It wouldn't really matter if Sea Folk are ruled by women. Demandred would ultimately be compelling someone into obedience... probably. So he could have a female puppet.

 

As for Shara - that does raise interesting possibilities. What if Demandred decided to access the pool of male channelers there. A decent bunch of male sparkies would make things interesting.

 

Caemlyn is ruled by Queens and yet Rhavin had no problem taking over there.

 

Except everyone who met Morgase and Rahvin during that time knew precisely who was in power.

 

It's just not very smart to use Compulsion on a ruler. Rahvin used quite a bit of Compulsion on Morgase, to the point that she was a completely ineffectual ruler -- and she still managed to escape eventually. Granted, resistance builds up, but still. (Considering that Morgase was capable of channeling, even if very little, one wonders why he did not simply employ the 13+13 trick.)

 

No, if Demandred has a proxy, they are working for the Shadow. He doesn't strike me as a person who would rely on Compulsion, especially when it would simply create more problems for him.

[b9anders]

I think there will be a twist with Demandred. I just reread the Forsaken coffee hour and that ends with Demandred contemplating that there might very well be a way to kill Moridin and make sure he doesn't come back.

 

I'm predicting that when we do see him truly in action, it might be against Moridin and holding the upper hand, at a time where it is paramount for Rand that he not die, whether it be due to their bond or other circumstances.

[Sentinel78]

We know he only turned to the shadow because of LTT, not that he was actually evil.  I love the Verin being a light spy in the shadow, and hope she remains the only one of her kind for either side, tho of course BA was her opposite i guess but what if Demandred is good now.

 

I guess he had a change of heart since he fed those two entire cities to the Trollocs during the War of Power.  He was just in a bad mood that day.

[Vulgir]

We know he only turned to the shadow because of LTT, not that he was actually evil.  I love the Verin being a light spy in the shadow, and hope she remains the only one of her kind for either side, tho of course BA was her opposite i guess but what if Demandred is good now.

 

I guess he had a change of heart since he fed those two entire cities to the Trollocs during the War of Power.  He was just in a bad mood that day.

 

Yes not to mention giving the order to Kissman in WH to kill Rand, hes just like every other Forsaken with a neeed for power and a desire for renown. Everything that WolfDragonFox posted on Demandred just hurts my head to read.

[WolfDragonFox]

I hope you haters out there all realize I am only exploring this avenue while still exploring others on who is Demandred, I stated this in earlier posts, so take a pill and wait, meanwhile make some progressive contributions lol

[Sharaman]

We know he only turned to the shadow because of LTT, not that he was actually evil.  I love the Verin being a light spy in the shadow, and hope she remains the only one of her kind for either side, tho of course BA was her opposite i guess but what if Demandred is good now.

 

I guess he had a change of heart since he fed those two entire cities to the Trollocs during the War of Power.  He was just in a bad mood that day.

 

Yes not to mention giving the order to Kissman in WH to kill Rand, hes just like every other Forsaken with a neeed for power and a desire for renown. Everything that WolfDragonFox posted on Demandred just hurts my head to read.

Quite apart from everything else in terms of temperament, Demandred may not much fancy handing over his resignation letter and doing the obligatory exit interview with Shaidar Haran!

[OHurley]

Yeah, I definitely do NOT believe that Demandred will turn back to the Light. I do however believe that Elan Morin Tedronai will. I believe the only reason he went to the Shadow is because his logic dictated that the DO would inevitably win. Of course, if someone can prove this theory incorrect, good ole' Ishy will be the "Redeemer of Hope" instead of "Betrayer".

 

As for Demandred-

 

1. Borderlands (things are... weird... there)

2. Shara (I mean, why not? lol)

3. Bouncing around from one place to the next sowing magical Seeds of Chaos +5

 

I DON'T think Demandred would ever dream of coming good again. That's on reserve for Mori/Elan Morin.

[OHurley]

Also-

 

Does anybody have any information on Demandred being Nae'blis? I mean, the DO (who IS afterall the Father of Lies) told Demandred that he was to be Nae'blis, but I dont' recall ever hearing about that again... anybody know anything about that?