The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Dolphineus]

where does it say rand cant win without moirane?

One of Min's viewings, she thinks that she was always right except when it came to Moirane.

 

From WoT FAQhttp://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.2_rest-chars/2.2.6_moir-no-dead.html

Egwene's vision [TFOH: 15, What Can Be Learned in Dreams, 214] of Thom pulling Moiraine's blue jewel out of a fire, and Min's comment in [ACOS: 35, Into the Woods, 543] that Rand would fail without "a woman who was dead and gone," which almost certainly refers to Moiraine, and her comment in [ACOS: 35, Into the Woods, 546] that "Moiraine was the only viewing of hers that had ever failed."

 

Those two comments from Min point to her having a viewing of Rand failing without Moiraine.

[Reeve]

Hi, new to the board, but read the books numerous times. I just wanted to say that obviously the thing we all missed is that Olver is Cain, and Damandred is Taim!

 

Just kidding, I read all the posts  :D

 

I had an idea around page 50, but couldn't get the site to send me the email to activate my account. By the time I sorted it out, someone else already posted it. I think the thing we are missing is the Aiel wearing the headband thingy. And I was gonna be the first to post it but now I have no more ideas lol.

 

How do we know Noal has been compulsed? I know its going off on a tangent, but someone here mentioned we had seen the results of his compulsion already. I know he was at Grendals etc from reading this forum (I hadn't made that, or many other links) but I cant recall him doing anything "evilish" since he has been hanging out with Matt!

 

 

 

[Sentinel78]

Rodel Ituralde was at Graendal's, not Noal... Noal is thought to have had Compulsion applied by Ishamael years ago.

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

ishy once said that he'd "painted(jain farstrider) as a fool". this is believed to have happened when farstrider went on his attempt to reach shayol ghul. it is generally accepted that noal is farstrider, as everything about it seems to fit. He gets headaches when he tries to remember things, indicating he was compelled, and that at least some of his memory has been erased by this compulsion. on top of which we have the reference from moiraines letter that one other will have to join mat and thom in their adventure into the tower of genjei, which is again accepted to be noal/farstrider. now to my point. what i was thinking is that when they enter the tower, the Foxes restore his memory, or it floods back to him due to recognising something(nynaeve did this with moghedien, cant remember which book), which will prove pivotal. i believe this for several reasons, such as the story arc remaining thus far unfinished, him being a world renowned traveller who has dropped out of common knowledge now(due to compulsion/what happened at shayol ghul). he would surely have hints to give (other than the flood of sharan references already had from him).sorry, havent found the right place to put this, and as people were talking about farstrider here, it seemed a natural place to put it

[Reeve]

Rodel Ituralde was at Graendal's, not Noal... Noal is thought to have had Compulsion applied by Ishamael years ago.

 

Oh thats right. I got confused because I never connected Noal with Farstrider, and never connected Rodel with Graendal until I started reading this forum. So then I got the 2 mixed up.

 

ishy once said that he'd "painted(jain farstrider) as a fool". this is believed to have happened when farstrider went on his attempt to reach shayol ghul. it is generally accepted that noal is farstrider, as everything about it seems to fit. He gets headaches when he tries to remember things, indicating he was compelled, and that at least some of his memory has been erased by this compulsion. on top of which we have the reference from moiraines letter that one other will have to join mat and thom in their adventure into the tower of genjei, which is again accepted to be noal/farstrider. now to my point. what i was thinking is that when they enter the tower, the Foxes restore his memory, or it floods back to him due to recognising something(nynaeve did this with moghedien, cant remember which book), which will prove pivotal. i believe this for several reasons, such as the story arc remaining thus far unfinished, him being a world renowned traveller who has dropped out of common knowledge now(due to compulsion/what happened at shayol ghul). he would surely have hints to give (other than the flood of sharan references already had from him).sorry, havent found the right place to put this, and as people were talking about farstrider here, it seemed a natural place to put it

 

Thank you for that! Its amazing how much I have missed even though I have read most of the books more than 4 times. This forum has shown me so much and connected so many things that I never thought about. Hopefully it will keep me occupied until ToM arrives lol

[Mr Ares]

Rodel Ituralde was at Graendal's, not Noal... Noal is thought to have had Compulsion applied by Ishamael years ago.

An old man was seen in Graendal's palace in FoH. Some take this man to be Noal, but more think it more likely to be Alsalam.

 

I had an idea around page 50, but couldn't get the site to send me the email to activate my account. By the time I sorted it out, someone else already posted it. I think the thing we are missing is the Aiel wearing the headband thingy. And I was gonna be the first to post it but now I have no more ideas lol.

The siswai'aman. Yes, I noticed that. Somewhat unusually for this thread, they actually seem to fit quite well. They were introduced in the relevant period, have appeared since, they've not played a huge part in the plot (they went to Dumai's Wells, because only they and Maidens were willing, but that's all I can think of). There's not been much debate on them, that I can recall. So far, just about the best suggestion going.

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

Thank you for that! Its amazing how much I have missed even though I have read most of the books more than 4 times. This forum has shown me so much and connected so many things that I never thought about. Hopefully it will keep me occupied until ToM arrives lol

 

its alright, ive been reading 6-7 chapters everyday for the last 10-11 years now lol

[Sentinel78]

Yeah, the siswai'aman seem to fit... I had always thought the siswai'aman were just the men that were jealous of Rand saying the Maidens carried his honor and donned the headbands as an act of loyalty.  It's mentioned a few times that the name "siswai'aman" implies ownership. 

 

This is a long shot, but maybe Tuon will point out Rand's own hypocrisy with regard to slavery and that could lead to some reconciliation with the Seanchan?  Real long-shot, I know... Hard for me to really think of a way the siswai'aman take on any particular importance, contrasted with other Aiel warriors at Rand's disposal.

 

its alright, ive been reading 6-7 chapters everyday for the last 10-11 years now lol

 

Yeah no joke.  I've kept a few of RJ's books in my nightstand for the past 15 years, right next to Song of Ice and Fire and Ender's Game.

 

[ali_ababa]

Been a long time fan of the books (think I started reading them in 94) and been lurking on this site for years. One thing that has been a personal possession of Rands' since sometime during the books 4-6 window(can't remember exactly which book he acquired it, not 4 though) is the dragon scepter. It has a link to the Seanchan and has not been overly discussed. I did a search of this thread and nothing came up, and did a similar search for the whole board and while I found references to it, there has not been any indepth discussions that I could find.

 

I know that the haft was charred by the fireball that took his hand, but the spear point was not damaged. A new haft can be attached.

 

I believe that it has a part to play in the upcoming books and the only logical thing that I can come up with is his next meeting with the Seanchan.

 

The Caveat I would attach to this is simply that I have not absorbed the minutae of the series as well as some on here and there could be an obvious reason why this cannot be so.

[Sentinel78]

To the best of our knowledge, the Dragon Scepter is just a random, standard-issue Seanchan spear that was cut off by Aviendha's closing gateway in Book 5.  Tough to see how it would have any special significance.  The only way I see it being significant is if Tuon either sees an omen in it, or it reminds her of some Seanchan Dragon prophecy we don't yet know about.  Anyway, I call this a long-shot. 

[wingedearth]

 

The Companion book says Callandor was made during the War of Power (not the Breaking), and that the Stone of Tear was made during the Breaking, presumably to protect Callandor.  The War of Power is stated to end at the Sealing of the Bore, which implies Callandor was made before LTT went mad or Lanfear was sealed. 

 

We have no idea if LTT ever used or knew about Callandor, though I'd gather he at least knew about it since Lanfear had knowledge of its power related to other male sa'angreal.  The earliest we see Callandor is during Rand's flashback to the Breaking in Book 4 in the Rhuidean columns.  In this scene, Callandor is sitting on a desk with some Aes Sedai who say that "the sword must wait" while they go to make the Eye of the World with Someshta/Green Man.

 

Lews Therin would not have had Callandor with him when he sealed the Dark One's prison, because Callandor requires the Dragon to work with a pair of female Aes Sedai, and the female Aes Sedai refused to join the Dragon and the Hundred Companions in their attempt to seal the Dark One's prison. But I think Lews Therin recognized Callandor when Rand had it, so he must have had possession of it at some point during the War of the Shadow.

[Terez]

I thought so :)

so the question is was 1 of their answers a lie?

The snakes were required to give 3 true answers but Mat asked 4 so one of the answers may not have been true

Well, Mat's 4th question was "What fate?"  Their answers were 1. To marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons (done); 2. To die and live again, and live once more a part of what was (done); and 3. To give up half the light of the world to save the world (almost certain to happen at Ghenjei, and corroborated both by Min's viewings and Egwene's dreams).

 

Ashanderei may have some dark secret (he didn't ask for it).

It's possible, but whatever it is should be something head-slapping or it doesn't really fit.  However, the hanging was the price that Mat did not set for his 3 wishes, not a response to a wish.  It's accounted for.  The ashandarei was his way out I guess...

 

Either that or Mat is somehow able to get 4 answers from them because of something special about him.

He got extra answers out of them because he 1. is ta'veren; 2. was infuriated with them and demanded it of them; and 3. because Rand, another ta'veren, was in there at the same time, and also breaking the rules in a different way, which caused an unusual amount of strain on 'Finnland.  The Aelfinn mentioned it briefly, and Moiraine theorized that it might have torn the connection between worlds completely if they'd stayed any longer, or if Perrin had also gone.

 

The siswai'aman. Yes' date=' I noticed that. Somewhat unusually for this thread, they actually seem to fit quite well. They were introduced in the relevant period, have appeared since, they've not played a huge part in the plot (they went to Dumai's Wells, because only they and Maidens were willing, but that's all I can think of). There's not been much debate on them, that I can recall. So far, just about the best suggestion going.[/quote']

I like the idea that something more might come out of the siswai'aman.  It's one of those things that the Aiel won't really talk about, and we haven't gotten much info on what they're all about, and it could be based in the 'stories' that we've heard nearly nothing of (Rhuarc mentioned that Rand would have understood his experiences in the Rhuidean columns if he'd grown up with the stories).  But Rand saw something in those memories that the siswai'aman don't know, simply because Rand didn't go into that much detail when he let the cat out of the bag at Alcair Dal, and of course, the Aiel who actually went through the columns (chiefs and Wise Ones) are still reticent about it, as they always have been:

 

TITLE - The Shadow Rising

CHAPTER: 26 - The Road to the Spear

 

"Singing," Someshta said. "Was there singing? So much is gone. The Aes Sedai say some will return. You are a Child of the Dragon, are you not?"

 

  Jonai winced. That name had caused trouble, no less for not being true. But how many citizens now believed the Da'shain Aiel had once served the Dragon and no other Aes Sedai?

So it's hard not to see this as sort of a parallel to the Tinker's song.  Something they don't really understand, but that doesn't mean it's not all part of the Wheel's plan.  :D

 

In any case, it's difficult to separate the siswai'aman ('spears owned by the Dragon) from 1. 'The People of the Dragon', and 2. the sign under which Rand prophetically conquered, both of which were introduced before book 4.

[logannagol]

Maybe the unnoticed thing is this: why are peaches poisonous after the breaking? This is probably isn't the answer but you never know.

[Terez]

Who says they became poisonous only after the Breaking? I can't recall that being mentioned anywhere, much less in books 4-6, and certainly it hasn't been mentioned for 'books and books'.

[logannagol]

In one of the books, one of the Forsaken is commenting on the changes in the world (Graendal I think), and they note that peaches are now poisonous. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Terez]

Demandred, book 9.

[royale]

Has anyone gone back and re-read books 4-6 before posting their speculations

 

[GB]

Hey everyone

 

Didn't go through all the pages but did anyone else notice how in books 4-6, rand, egwene, elayne, aviendha keep remembering all this old weaves? aviendha made a gateway and egwene rediscovered travelling, elayne with the ter'angreal, etc.

 

 

[Reeve]

I had another idea, because I picked up the WoT guide and reached the part about The Ways. When did that evil wind get out of The  Ways? Machin something or other. I am sure it escaped. And also, the Guide suggests that The Ways went dark because of the taint on the source. Doesn't this mean that The Ways could now be fixed? Wind gone, Taint gone. Just a thought!

[Terez]

It was able to reach outside a Waygate, but it didn't escape.

[ed2funy]

because rand stopped it..

 

what if no one is there to stop it?

[mossman87]

I had another idea, because I picked up the WoT guide and reached the part about The Ways. When did that evil wind get out of The  Ways? Machin something or other. I am sure it escaped. And also, the Guide suggests that The Ways went dark because of the taint on the source. Doesn't this mean that The Ways could now be fixed? Wind gone, Taint gone. Just a thought!

 

It didn't escape, the Wind is like a fungus grown from the taint on Saidin, since Saidin built it.

 

Think of it as a bastardized version of the True Power.

[Lilbaz]

Please don't shoot me down for this but I was wondering what happened to that large pack of Dark Hounds (or whatever they're called). I was thinking this because Perrin needs something to do in the TOM and I don't think that the Whitecloaks will be considered an enemy (may even join forces to fight them off).

 

Appologise if I am way off here but haven't read the books for a while and can't remember what happened to them, it would be a good battle of Perrins wolves fighting a major battle.

[Mr Ares]

Well, the big pack of Darkhounds hasn't been resolved. Presumably they're still out there. Of course, they're nothing to do with this thread.

[Lilbaz]

Why not they're an obvious thing that hasn't been commented on a lot (that I've noticed) that may have a big impact in the next book (if they'res a battle).

 

Don't get me wrong you're probably right, but it may be worth considering.