The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[DemandredFO]

I think this has been brought up before but I'll mention it again, since it's probably 150 pages back.  There are still 2, I think, black sisters that Moghedien sent away and haven't been heard from.  This may not be the BUT, however, all those other originals have popped up else where, Ispan, Amico and Joiya are dead, Elayne has 8 maybe and Liandrin is a prisoner.  So what have the others been doing.  I don't think RJ would've gone to give the 13 originals such prominence and then had 2 or three drop off a cliff while we see the others getting captured or killed.  I'm these guys have more face time than some of the foresaken

[Dreamwalker]

I think this has been brought up before but I'll mention it again, since it's probably 150 pages back.  There are still 2, I think, black sisters that Moghedien sent away and haven't been heard from.  This may not be the BUT, however, all those other originals have popped up else where, Ispan, Amico and Joiya are dead, Elayne has 8 maybe and Liandrin is a prisoner.  So what have the others been doing.  I don't think RJ would've gone to give the 13 originals such prominence and then had 2 or three drop off a cliff while we see the others getting captured or killed.  I'm these guys have more face time than some of the foresaken

 

Wow, I thought a while ago about whether all of those 13 had been accounted for, but hadn't done an actual count to see if there were any still missing. I think that's a pretty good idea, and whether or not it's the BUT I'm going to be pretty disappointed if they never pop back up, whether with the Borderlanders or somewhere else - I just want to find out what happened to them. I mention the Borderlanders simply because IIRC they had 13 sisters with them, and it would not surprise me if some or all of them were BA - just because there's 13 and 13x13 is the gun on the mantle waiting to be used.

[athenian]

I think this has been brought up before but I'll mention it again, since it's probably 150 pages back.  There are still 2, I think, black sisters that Moghedien sent away and haven't been heard from.  This may not be the BUT, however, all those other originals have popped up else where, Ispan, Amico and Joiya are dead, Elayne has 8 maybe and Liandrin is a prisoner.  So what have the others been doing.  I don't think RJ would've gone to give the 13 originals such prominence and then had 2 or three drop off a cliff while we see the others getting captured or killed.  I'm these guys have more face time than some of the foresaken

 

The remaining three were sent on tasks by Moghedien in Chapter 18 of book five. Liandrin reveals their expressions upon hearing their tasks:

 

Jeaine Caide: "donned a slow mask of horror, shaking her head at first and trying to cover herself and that disgustingly sheer gown, but Moghedien's face hardened and Jeaine noddied hurriedly and fled"

 

Berylla Naron: "showed little expression"

 

Rhianna Andomeran:""merely listened, a touch of relief in her eyes, bowed her head in assent and went."

 

The only other clue given in the chapter comes from Moghedien's words: that their tasks may one day bear 'sweet fruit.'

[Calderis]

Has anyone mentioned the dogs liking male channelers and cats liking women channelers? I don't even remember where this came in as a fact, but it seems obvious that since dogs are domestic wolves who can still tell channelers from non-channelers that cats ought to have an ancestor with similar abilities. Wolfbrothers and Lynxsisters anyone?  :P

 

 

 

I'm joking by the way, I doubt RJ would hide something like that for 12 books. Plus, I can't see it becoming important in any way either. Still, an answer for this would be nice.

 

I'm still waiting for cats to freak out around Aran'gar and be the way she's exposed. For how Arogant she is, getting taken down by something so simple would be hilarious.

[Hadilmir]

I'm still waiting for cats to freak out around Aran'gar and be the way she's exposed. For how Arogant she is, getting taken down by something so simple would be hilarious.

 

Ummm, nah, I won't spoil it for you. You sure you should be reading the Gathering Storm forum?

[DemandredFO]

Thanks for that quote athenian, knew we didn't get very much.  I'm guessing one way or another we'll find out what the fruit is because as I said we never lost track of the others so I doubt these three will just go gently into the night.

[Dida]

Has anyone mentioned the dogs liking male channelers and cats liking women channelers? I don't even remember where this came in as a fact,

 

Demira Eriff mentioned this in Lord Of Chaos, Chapter 46 just before she was attacked by pseudo-Aiel.

 

 

Wolfbrothers and Lynxsisters anyone?  :P

 

Perrin know of the likely existence of at least two other Humans who became Wolfbrothers, knowledge gained from refugees who came into the Two Rivers. One was last known to be in Tarabon and the other on the Almoth Plain by Perrin.

 

 

Source: Lord of Chaos book, Chapter 54 - Perrin pov

 

He let his mind quest, sent the image out into the night. There would be

wolves, and they would know of Young Bull. News of a human able to speak

with wolves would pass across the land like a rushing wind. Perrin had only

met two. One a friend, the other a poor wretch who had not been able to hold

on to humanity. He had heard tales from the refugees who trickled into the

Two Rivers. They had old stories of men turning into wolves, stories few really

believed, told to entertain children. Three claimed to have known men who

became wolves and ran wild, though, and if the details had seemed wrong to

Perrin, the uneasy way two of them had avoided his yellow eyes made

confirmation of a sort. Those two, a woman from Tarabon and a man from

Almoth Plain, would not go outdoors at night. They also kept giving him gifts

of garlic for some reason, which he ate with great pleasure. But he no longer

tried to find others like himself.

 

 

 

 

 

[StefanR]

Those two had known Wolfbrothers, they weren't themselves

[mossman87]

I too would like to know where the Nym information comes from.  I don't see how the Nym are good then as I can't see good guys ripping souls out of T'A'R

 

I think mossman87 was referring to this quote, but I disagree with his interpretation of it:

Q&A Dec. 9 2002: http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Wotmania_and_Dragonmount_Q%26A_December_9,_2002

2. How does the idea of souls apply to constructs such as Nym and Trollocs? Could either of them be reborn?

 

To whoever put this one forward, this is one of the best questions I've ever gotten! Nym and Trollocs both have souls, and either could be reborn, but since Nym were a pure construct (i.e. each of them was individually made, like hand-crafting) a Nym would not be reborn as a Nym. You might say that a Nym's soul was borrowed temporarily from the supply of souls awaiting rebirth. A Trolloc, however, bears a twisted, or corrupted soul, and would be reborn as a Trolloc. Though frankly, a Trolloc's soul is such a pitiful thing, it hardly seems worth calling a soul.

 

Since only the heroes of the horn's souls are in Tel'aran'rhiod, I'd say that Nym souls are not taken from Tel'aran'rhiod, but rather come from the normal afterlife pool of souls awaiting rebirth.

 

As far as I know we don't know if the regular afterlife souls hang in TAR or not, and whether they do or not, wherever they are stored, humans can obviously tap it or else they wouldn't be able to create Nym.

[Hadilmir]

My circuit theory explains it perfectly, but no one seems to like it. Possibly because I'm terrible at getting points across and possibly because it's a bad theory.

[Dreamwalker]

I too would like to know where the Nym information comes from.  I don't see how the Nym are good then as I can't see good guys ripping souls out of T'A'R

 

I think mossman87 was referring to this quote, but I disagree with his interpretation of it:

Q&A Dec. 9 2002: http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Wotmania_and_Dragonmount_Q%26A_December_9,_2002

2. How does the idea of souls apply to constructs such as Nym and Trollocs? Could either of them be reborn?

 

To whoever put this one forward, this is one of the best questions I've ever gotten! Nym and Trollocs both have souls, and either could be reborn, but since Nym were a pure construct (i.e. each of them was individually made, like hand-crafting) a Nym would not be reborn as a Nym. You might say that a Nym's soul was borrowed temporarily from the supply of souls awaiting rebirth. A Trolloc, however, bears a twisted, or corrupted soul, and would be reborn as a Trolloc. Though frankly, a Trolloc's soul is such a pitiful thing, it hardly seems worth calling a soul.

 

Since only the heroes of the horn's souls are in Tel'aran'rhiod, I'd say that Nym souls are not taken from Tel'aran'rhiod, but rather come from the normal afterlife pool of souls awaiting rebirth.

 

As far as I know we don't know if the regular afterlife souls hang in TAR or not, and whether they do or not, wherever they are stored, humans can obviously tap it or else they wouldn't be able to create Nym.

 

From the Thirteenth Depository blog (http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/there-are-no-beginnings-or-endingsthe.html):

Jordan has stated at a book-signing that between lives there is an ordinary afterlife for all souls except those bound to the Horn of Valere. Once a soul is selected to be a Hero of the Horn (and according to Jordan they cannot refuse this linking) they await rebirth in Tel’aran’rhiod.

 

I'll see if I can find the actual quote that they're referring to here.

 

[amoralatheist]

The rebuilding of Rhuiden(sp?) ? Or was thsi guess made already?

[Random Man]

The rebuilding of Rhuiden(sp?) ? Or was thsi guess made already?

Considering that just about every wild guess you could think of has come up here, I wouldn't be surprised. I believe I did see something on Rhuidean back in November or December, around maybe page 40. Heh.

 

I wonder if Tinkers are flocking to Rhuidean as they are to Seanchan-controlled lands. Like the Seanchan, the Aiel would not allow them to be mistreated, even if they might get a lot of dirty looks. What would happen if a Tinker went through the glass columns and discovered the truth of his ancestry? Or would the Aiel at Rhuidean be openly willing to discuss the truth with the Tinkers?

[Terez]

 

I'll see if I can find the actual quote that they're referring to here.

 

Try this in the future, but for now:

 

Barnes and Noble chat 11 November 2000

 

Q: Aside from the Heroes of the Horn waiting around in the World of Dreams, is there any kind of afterlife in Wheel of Time? Do the Heroes get a choice when they are linked to the Horn; can they retire, or take 'ordinary life' sabbaticals?

RJ: In answer to the first question, yes, there is an ordinary afterlife. In answer to the second, no. You cannot decide not to be a Hero linked to the Wheel.

[Dreamwalker]

 

I'll see if I can find the actual quote that they're referring to here.

 

Try this in the future, but for now:

 

Barnes and Noble chat 11 November 2000

 

Q: Aside from the Heroes of the Horn waiting around in the World of Dreams, is there any kind of afterlife in Wheel of Time? Do the Heroes get a choice when they are linked to the Horn; can they retire, or take 'ordinary life' sabbaticals?

RJ: In answer to the first question, yes, there is an ordinary afterlife. In answer to the second, no. You cannot decide not to be a Hero linked to the Wheel.

 

Thanks for the quotes link, that will be useful :)

[lammbo]

What would happen if a Tinker went through the glass columns and discovered the truth of his ancestry?

 

The columns show the history through the eyes of the ancestors of the Aiel.  Since the split occurred the way it did, no tinker would share a bloodline with an Aiel AFTER that event.  In the very unlikely event that there may actually someone amongst the tinkers that still has some shared lineage pre-split, at the most, they may only see those events prior to the split but nothing after that.  Since so many tinkers are killed by others and the bloodlines have become so diluted by bringing in outsiders, unlike the Aiel, I think it would be highly unlikely that they would see anything at all.

 

 

[Druugan]

What would happen if a Tinker went through the glass columns and discovered the truth of his ancestry?

 

The columns show the history through the eyes of the ancestors of the Aiel.  Since the split occurred the way it did, no tinker would share a bloodline with an Aiel AFTER that event.  In the very unlikely event that there may actually someone amongst the tinkers that still has some shared lineage pre-split, at the most, they may only see those events prior to the split but nothing after that.  Since so many tinkers are killed by others and the bloodlines have become so diluted by bringing in outsiders, unlike the Aiel, I think it would be highly unlikely that they would see anything at all.

 

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure.  Certainly, the bloodline would have been diluted, but I think that there is likely more of a traceable lineage to the original Aiel that split off to become the "lost ones" than you give credit for.  Sure, outsiders have joined them; however, those outsiders most likely married Tinkers that are Aiel descendants and produced more Aiel descendants.  Diluted or not, the ancestry is likely still there.  And I'd wager any at all would be enough to present one that was there during the split and backwards to the original Aiel.  Even not seeing the Jenn or the "modern" Aiel in their visions, they would still discover their heritage from the original Aiel.

 

However, I don't think that's the unnoticed thing... and I tend to doubt that any Tinkers are likely to enter the columns.  I wouldn't be surprised though if some of the Aiel that ran off after Rand revealed the truth ended up joining the Tinkers and telling them about what Rand said.

 

My vote... at least until I get through 4-6 again on my re-read is the Aiel wearing the headbands with the Aes Sedai symbol.  We'll see if I change my mind when I re-read the pertinent books.

[alligator]

What would happen if a Tinker went through the glass columns and discovered the truth of his ancestry?

 

The columns show the history through the eyes of the ancestors of the Aiel.  Since the split occurred the way it did, no tinker would share a bloodline with an Aiel AFTER that event.  In the very unlikely event that there may actually someone amongst the tinkers that still has some shared lineage pre-split, at the most, they may only see those events prior to the split but nothing after that.  Since so many tinkers are killed by others and the bloodlines have become so diluted by bringing in outsiders, unlike the Aiel, I think it would be highly unlikely that they would see anything at all.

 

I was under the impression the glass columns show you your ancestry, whatever it is, not necessarily just the history of the Aiel. So a Tinker going through could see just as much as a regular Aiel. Maybe they could find the song that way! Otherwise, I'm not sure what purpose it would serve.

[CraigyT]

hey. this is my first post and im not sure what has been discuses. im dislexic so im sory about the bad gramer and speling ill try my best to make sens tho.

from what i have read no one has mentioned the red bands some of the aiel men have. i think they came up round about book 4 or 5 but i might be rong. i think that maby the aiel whith them are aiel men who want to lern to chanal or whos family have a history of caneling in the family. somthing like that. when rand asked about it the aiel keep quie about it. so im thiking that maby its a part of the aiel profoce that they havnt told rand. maby rand has to figur out about the male aiel chanalers by him self and seek them out in his time of need or somthing like that. so thats what i think pleas feel free to shoot this ideadown if im totaly rong  :)

[Dredlord]

The red bands have been brought up but not in any connection with channeling.  Just wondering what might have set you on that path?

[bronnt]

The red bands have been brought up but not in any connection with channeling.  Just wondering what might have set you on that path?

 

Yes, it's been discussed in this thread, and generally dismissed.  They first came up in TFoH, I believe.

 

The explanation we get from Aviendha is that they believe that the Aiel are Spears of the Dragon, meant to be used in battle.  There's no reason to believe she's lying.

 

When would they have time to train, at this point?  The story is like weeks away from TG, if that.  There's no time for all of them to be trained to use the OP, and there's definitely no way they've already been trained because 1) Who's training them?  It's clear Rand hasn't had the time to do anything with them, and there were oodles of them at Dumai's Wells in the middle of a channeling cluster-bomb.  They didn't do anything there.

 

So, it's certainly not that.

[CraigyT]

The red bands have been brought up but not in any connection with channeling.  Just wondering what might have set you on that path?

 

Yes, it's been discussed in this thread, and generally dismissed.  They first came up in TFoH, I believe.

 

The explanation we get from Aviendha is that they believe that the Aiel are Spears of the Dragon, meant to be used in battle.  There's no reason to believe she's lying.

 

When would they have time to train, at this point?  The story is like weeks away from TG, if that.  There's no time for all of them to be trained to use the OP, and there's definitely no way they've already been trained because 1) Who's training them?  It's clear Rand hasn't had the time to do anything with them, and there were oodles of them at Dumai's Wells in the middle of a channeling cluster-bomb.  They didn't do anything there.

 

So, it's certainly not that.

 

i only made the conection becouse they havent said much about what aiel men who can channel now that the do taint has gone. it was just an idea that pop in my head so i thought id put it out there and see if anything good comes from it.

 

i havn't reread the book for i wile id forgotan that avalinda shed a little light on it. and i have to agree with the rest of ur reasoning i don't think that untraind aiel chanalers would not be much use realy. thaks for clearing that up for me.

[FarShainMael]

Strictly speaking, of course, Rand himself started out as an 'untrained Aiel channeller'.....

 

[lammbo]

Strictly speaking, of course, Rand himself started out as an 'untrained Aiel channeller'.....

 

 

Of course, he's had since EotW to learn though...

[FarShainMael]

And he's had tutoring from Asmo