The One Power (Full Book Spoilers)--No Balefire!

[jemron]

Don't forget, RJ said that saidar would've been tainted too if they had tried it with both.

 

The male half was tainted based on the way Lews Therin used it against the DO.  It "touched" the DO as they were trying to seal the bore, and that is what caused it to be tainted.  Lews Therin said that something has to touch the DO, but it can't be the OP because it was tainted last time they tried it...  In my opinion that "something" is either (1) the TP or (2) The power/evil of Padan Fain.

[Ozzie Mat]

I thought the TP too would be used since rand can channel it through Moridin, but now you mention Fain I think that is even better.

 

For two reasons -

 

Rands two wounds are opposites of each other which led him to use  shadar logoth when he cleansed the source.

 

Also he has a thought about living again is an opportunity to fix things and removing Fains evil from the world would also be part of it.

 

Not sure how he can do it but it will be good to see

[saidarisnowtainted]

Regarding whether there really are 3 types of powers.

 

True Source--neutral with a female and male side

True Power--DO

Third--Creator-specific, connected to fabric of reality, only bestowed on the Dragon, etc., perhaps it is the "Memory of Light"? 

 

Maybe Rand's connection with the world is a hint to his connection with the pure power of creation?  This is all so new and so late in the story--introducing this new aspect of what can be done in Randland and what Rand's powers are. 

 

What do you guys think?

 

P.S.  i really enjoy posting here.  you guys are awesome.  i feel very comfortable sharing my thoughts, even if they seem silly.  thank you.

[elec1cele]

Do we think we'll be seeing weapons of the power being made in one of the last two books? I surely would.

 

AND It's terribly simple but my theory as to how they are made is as follows:

You make a sword of fire, and have someone turn in to cuendillar.

 

I don't think the power forged swords are made out of cuendillar.  Their is talk of some cuendillar swords, but they aren't the ones Lan and Rand have.

• The power forged swords are described differently also they act as conduits for the one power whereas cuendillar generally absorbs the OP. 
  
• I think it would have been remarked upon more when Rand's sword melted in TGH if it had been made of cuendillar.
  

 

[moffwolf]

Regarding whether there really are 3 types of powers.

 

True Source--neutral with a female and male side

True Power--DO

Third--Creator-specific, connected to fabric of reality, only bestowed on the Dragon, etc., perhaps it is the "Memory of Light"?  

 

Maybe Rand's connection with the world is a hint to his connection with the pure power of creation?  This is all so new and so late in the story--introducing this new aspect of what can be done in Randland and what Rand's powers are.  

 

What do you guys think?

 

P.S.  i really enjoy posting here.  you guys are awesome.  i feel very comfortable sharing my thoughts, even if they seem silly.  thank you.

 

What I threw together earlier was theory and conjecture based on the mirror-like theme of the whole books and a possible solution to how Rand will be "one with the land".   No one has presented any evidence to support my theory as of yet, and all evidence has led to the dispelling of the theory based on previous comments from RJ and BS (is that inappropriate?).  Furthermore, there is strong evidence that the one power IS the power of the creator.  Let's not let this get out of hand as a possibility until some one can ask BS some questions about it.  I almost drove out to pasadena last week during the work week to see him and ask about it. Why would he come to southern california and not come to san diego, home to Comiccon?  Seriously, Tor, WTH?    

[moffwolf]

Terez has a link on a heck of a discussion about this stuff from the Q and A thread.  Sorry, I don't see how to attach links yet. 

 

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77382#post77382

[1eejit]

I thought the TP too would be used since rand can channel it through Moridin, but now you mention Fain I think that is even better.

 

For two reasons -

 

Rands two wounds are opposites of each other which led him to use  shadar logoth when he cleansed the source.

 

Also he has a thought about living again is an opportunity to fix things and removing Fains evil from the world would also be part of it.

 

Not sure how he can do it but it will be good to see

I have a feeling Fain's power will be used to kill the Dark One rather than just seal his prison.

There is obviously another way to fix the Bore other than using Fain's power as RJ has told us he is unique to this Age, this Turn of the Wheel and it has been fixed in previous Ages and Turnings.

 

If Fain shows up at SG, and Rand dies/appears to die then he'll almost certainly go for Target #2 - Shai'tan.

[clu7ch]

So. It is said somewhere in the books (dunno where at the moment) that the one power cannot do anything that the wielder thinks to be impossible. Could it be postulated from this comment that anything is truly possible with the OP?

 

Including death? Or has that been ruled out completely by RJ/BS

[jemron]

So. It is said somewhere in the books (dunno where at the moment) that the one power cannot do anything that the wielder thinks to be impossible. Could it be postulated from this comment that anything is truly possible with the OP?

 

Including death? Or has that been ruled out completely by RJ/BS

 

I think that the OP can do a lot that the characters don't understand, but I wouldn't say it can do anything.  It has to have some limitations.

 

I personally think that it can be used to bring people back to life, and that is why it is mentioned so often that it can't be done (just like stilling couldn't be healed is mentioned a lot before it happens).

 

However, I don't think that everybody can be brought back, maybe just people who are tied to the Wheel like Heroes and/or Ta'veren such as Rand (people who are specifically spun out for a purpose).

[clu7ch]

I think it's weird but when rand was trying the resurrection deal in Tear I feel like he almost had it.

 

If nyn had vora's sa'angreal and her current knowledge I think she could have pulled it off.

 

Rand just sucks at anything that doesn't require killing.

[wumpus]

The dark one can bring people back, snatching them from death, so its possible the OP could too?

[Nightstrike]

The dark one can bring people back, snatching them from death, so its possible the OP could too?

The creator brings people back through cycles of rebirth. Whether it has anything to do with the One Power or not - I don't know. So it seems limited to the Creator and the Dark One.

 

 

[Jemlin]

The dark one can bring people back, snatching them from death, so its possible the OP could too?

The creator brings people back through cycles of rebirth. Whether it has anything to do with the One Power or not - I don't know. So it seems limited to the Creator and the Dark One.

 

 

 

My thought is that the dead could be brought back with the OP, but it would function differently.

 

From my understanding, the DO seems to snatch the soul before it goes into TAR or wherever, and then puts it into a new host.  This explains why the DO can not re-birth a person bale-fired.

 

We have seen with the OP that a soul can be pulled out of TAR and into the Physical world.  I have a feeling that, through a combo of Dreaming/Weaving a talented healer could bring a soul back, or pull a Hero from TAR into the living world.  Just like Birgitte, however, perhaps a lot less painfully.

 

[Nightstrike]

We have seen with the OP that a soul can be pulled out of TAR and into the Physical world.  I have a feeling that, through a combo of Dreaming/Weaving a talented healer could bring a soul back, or pull a Hero from TAR into the living world.  Just like Birgitte, however, perhaps a lot less painfully.

Yeah, it worked with Birgitte, so it should work with other people as well. Birgitte didn't seem too happy about it, though. Maybe it's bad for the Wheel? I mean, they are the Wheel's corrective tools...

 

 

[wumpus]

The dark one can bring people back, snatching them from death, so its possible the OP could too?

The creator brings people back through cycles of rebirth. Whether it has anything to do with the One Power or not - I don't know. So it seems limited to the Creator and the Dark One.

 

 

 

My thought is that the dead could be brought back with the OP, but it would function differently.

 

From my understanding, the DO seems to snatch the soul before it goes into TAR or wherever, and then puts it into a new host.  This explains why the DO can not re-birth a person bale-fired.

 

We have seen with the OP that a soul can be pulled out of TAR and into the Physical world.  I have a feeling that, through a combo of Dreaming/Weaving a talented healer could bring a soul back, or pull a Hero from TAR into the living world.  Just like Birgitte, however, perhaps a lot less painfully.

 

 

Here's another question, does the dark one displace a soul in an existing body, or does he create a new one for them?

[Eleint]

Displace, I think.  Didn't they tell Aran'gar when he/she was annoyed at the female body that bodies were hard to come by?

[Nightstrike]

RJ said that the body is stripped of the soul, and then the DO inserts the new soul (=Forsaken brought back). So he doesn't create a new body.

[Jemlin]

We have seen with the OP that a soul can be pulled out of TAR and into the Physical world.  I have a feeling that, through a combo of Dreaming/Weaving a talented healer could bring a soul back, or pull a Hero from TAR into the living world.  Just like Birgitte, however, perhaps a lot less painfully.

Yeah, it worked with Birgitte, so it should work with other people as well. Birgitte didn't seem too happy about it, though. Maybe it's bad for the Wheel? I mean, they are the Wheel's corrective tools...

 

 

 

The way the Moggy did it, is probably bad for the Wheel and the soul. Afterall, it did nearly kill Birgitte. 

 

My thought is that Nynaeve or someone might be able to come up with a way to do it with out harming the soul so much.  Or, feel there can be a justified case..she is stubborn after all.  I'm curious to though if it would take Nynaeve or Egwene to figure it out. 

[Eleint]

My theory on Birgitte is pretty simple.

 

Birgitte, when ripped into the Pattern like that, had no natural thread.  Not really.  Thus, she was dying.  The Warder Bond 'ties' two threads together.  Thus, she was linked to Elayne.  Elayne's thread became hers.  She will die when Elayne does.

[OptimusPrime]

The dark one can bring people back, snatching them from death, so its possible the OP could too?

The creator brings people back through cycles of rebirth. Whether it has anything to do with the One Power or not - I don't know. So it seems limited to the Creator and the Dark One.

 

 

 

RJ I think said a Nyms soul is borrowed from the pool of souls awaiting rebirth. So the One Power can do it

[mossman87]

The dark one can bring people back, snatching them from death, so its possible the OP could too?

The creator brings people back through cycles of rebirth. Whether it has anything to do with the One Power or not - I don't know. So it seems limited to the Creator and the Dark One.

 

 

 

RJ I think said a Nyms soul is borrowed from the pool of souls awaiting rebirth. So the One Power can do it

 

This is correct, there has to be a way to control souls in someway with the OP since they did it to create the Nym.

[Silentvoice]

Seems a bit cruel, given how long the Nym survive. In a peaceful society, that soul would never achieve rebirth!

[Nightstrike]

Maybe that depends on how the Nym were grown? And from what? A fetus grows inside a womb, but the soul isn't created. It's probably "inserted" by the Wheel.

 

The Nym might have human souls, but I think RJ set personalities/who they are up to be different from rebirth to rebirth. Who you are dies and "someone else" is reborn. I guess that means the Nym doesn't see itself as a human.

[Duskfire]

My theory on Birgitte is pretty simple.

 

Birgitte, when ripped into the Pattern like that, had no natural thread.  Not really.  Thus, she was dying.  The Warder Bond 'ties' two threads together.  Thus, she was linked to Elayne.  Elayne's thread became hers.  She will die when Elayne does.

 

Min can still see auras around Birgitte though, so that suggests she still has a thread. Although dying at the same time as Elayne is interesting.