Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[metaphor]

What would it change? He must not put someone else above him. not bow to someone. Accept others as equal yes, but not putting them above him.

He could use it as a ploy to get close to Tuon to kiss her hand and bond her with the bond the asha'man used on the AS that compels her to obey him, thus effectively binding her to his service, but I could accept it only if it happens in private. I don't want other Seanchan to think that their Empress is above everyone else and the Dragon is her subject. They must be put in their place. It would be extremely unsatisfying otherwise.

[Sharaman]

He may be demonstrating a sword form.

Or looking at entertaining pictures embedded in the Crystal.

Or fiddling with the Compulsion thermostat that's inset there.

Or puking while grasping Saidin.

It just says he has to kneel before the CT, not that he's swearing allegiance to, or acknowledging the superiority of the Seanchan Empress.

We've seen prophesy in WoTverse doesn't necessarily fulfil itself in the ways people expect.

 

[aunt_pol]

 

The point here is, unless Hawkwing himself tells Fortuona her beloved prophecy's mangled, she will go to her deathbed thinking the Dragon is/was meant to kneel before her. It not being true doesn't really change anything as long as she believes it to be true.

Rand is a different creature now.... his rage/pride is no longer a stumbling block. I think he'll be able to see that kneeling does not make him less. It's a GESTURE. I think lil' miss boss is gonna learn fairly pronto he ain't gonna be controlled. Who was it early (Verin to Alanna, post-bonding?) using the allegory about putting a saddle on a lion, having a fine time until you realised you could never sleep? The point is I think this little piece will be fulfilled to the bare letter, rather than the spirit of the law, so to speak. Pyrrhic victory, in a way. Unless I'm  misusing the term. I am quite tired.

I just think we don't need to get hung up here on Rand's behalf. He believes he will bind her to him, she believes he will kneel to her. He's going to get his way, and obv she's going to get enough of hers to assure co-operation, at least to TG.

[garion]

When Elaida Foretell's about Rand knowing the Amyrlin's anger is that before or after Dumai's Wells?

[randfandom]

When Elaida Foretell's about Rand knowing the Amyrlin's anger is that before or after Dumai's Wells?

 

After. She foretold it in CoS when she heard of the disaster from Alviarin.

[nategator]

I was referring to Egwene's dream of Rand sitting on a chair and a woman being angry at him for it. I always assumed it was Morgase and the Lion Throne, but the 2 opportunities I mentioned in the earlier post are far more meaningful. There is also Elaida's foretelling of Rand knowing the Amyrlin's anger.

Anyway, I doubt Rand will bow before any throne or empress. For one thing the Seanchan prophecies have been corrupted,by Ishamael presumably, and for second, I don't want to see Rand bowing to anybody, especially not a Seanchan. They need to be humbled a bit, not enabled in their delusions.

 

Easy solution is for Rand to give up sovereignty rights by appointing kings in all remaining territories and then kneel.  He can take Banner-General for the Ever Victorious Alliance or whatever, his kneeling would have 0 ramifications politically.  Everyone knows he has to battle the DO and Rand expects to die, so it makes total sense to kick the can down the road, forge a temporary alliance, and then let the survivors kill each over using his name as their messanic peaceful religious figure who is really on their side.

[FarShainMael]

In WH ch 18, 'An offer', Mat is tossed a 'fat silver' coin by one of the Seanchan, 'a buzzard-faced woman in red-and-blue armour'. The coin has the face of a 'forbidding woman' on one side, evidently the Empress (MSLF). On the other side is some sort of heavy chair..

 

So Mat now has an image of the CT in his possession! Would Rand be cheeky enough to physically kneel before that??? Would that be enough to fulfil the prophecy, and spike Fortuona's guns?

 

[OptimusPrime]

What would it change? He must not put someone else above him. not bow to someone. Accept others as equal yes, but not putting them above him.

He could use it as a ploy to get close to Tuon to kiss her hand and bond her with the bond the asha'man used on the AS that compels her to obey him, thus effectively binding her to his service, but I could accept it only if it happens in private. I don't want other Seanchan to think that their Empress is above everyone else and the Dragon is her subject. They must be put in their place. It would be extremely unsatisfying otherwise.

 

I think it could be a brilliant ruse. He kneels before her, in front of everyone, bonding her while they-and Tuon herself-think theyre getting what they want. Then, as he stands, he tells her to fetch some wine, and she obeys immediately, shocking everyone.