Culling the Power

[Aiemond]

Completely agree with you. So then the question for this is why are active channelers not plentiful now? Is it that they just aren't plentiful in Randland or the entire world? And most importantly why is this happening?

 

Aes Sedai don't actively go out to recruit as a goal in itself. For the most part it's left up to each girl to go to the White Tower to be tested and with the different attitudes towards Aes Sedai that probably isn't something that will automatically occur in all lands. Where in the Borderlands it is considered (as in the AoL) a great honor and cause for celebration, in Tear for instance it is seen as a dishonor and a disgrace. So unless someone has the ability inborn, not that many Tarens would actively go to the White Tower to see if they could learn how to channel.

 

Then there's the unwritten rule in the White Tower that women will be entered into the novice book only up to a certain age and all others beyond that age are considered too old. This too cuts down on the actual activation of the ability in those that could learn, since they never get a chance because of that (for those that live in Randland). With Egwene now opening up the novice book to everyone already the number of new novices are such that they reach a level the White Tower hasn't seen in centuries.

 

The no breeding policy of Aes Sedai definately has something to do with it, I'm sure. Though I am puzzled wy the Wise Ones didn't force Rand's mother into apprenticeship as that seems to be the way with all Aiel women that can channel. Aviendha was forced to apprenticeship to the WO's once it was clear she had the ability. I don't know if they actively test for it, but maybe that's only with those that have it inborn too, I don't know.

 

Damane certainly don't breed as that's considered the hight of bad taste in the Seanchan empire.

 

But that still doesn't explain the genetic ability being passed on, as someone said. Even without having been taught, the ability would still be passed on from one generation to the next. We know that strength in the power isn't a factor (Morgase can barely grab hold of the OP, let alone channel but Elayne is considered quite strong though not as strong as Nyneave or Egwene). And we know that the ability to channel can pass from mother to daughter as well as to son (unless Rand got his ability from Tam, but I've never seen any reference to Tam having the ability) .

 

Maybe the decrease is linked to a lack of need? In nature, things that are not used in a long time (generations) tend to weed themselves out of a species' physiology. Such as the tail in humans, which today is only  tailbone and scientists are saying that in time that tailbone will have vanished entirely due to it having lost it's reason for being. As less and less humans use the OP, and instead use mundain things to do what once was done with the OP, maybe this too is a result of that. Though it sounds like a weak theory to me to stand on it's own as the sole reason for the decrease.

 

RJ said channeling is recessive. So this is how it works. When two people have a kid, they get half the genes from one parent and the other half from the other parent. Now, this is the part that gets a bit trickier (and can get very tricky with some characteristics). For dominant characteristics, it only takes that gene from one parent to express the trait. For recessive characteristics, you have to have to have the trait from BOTh parents. So, channeling has to come from both, though each parent does not have to be able to channel, just be a carrier. I'll make a diagram to help.

 

Lets use rand as an example. I will, use the letter C to represent the channeling gene. C is the dominant portion, c is the recessive.

 

Rand is cc

Tigrane is Cc

Janduin is Cc

 

If Tigrane or Janduin were CC then rand could not channel. If Rand got the C from his mom and the c from his dad, he could not channel. And by this diagram, neither his father or mother could channel. Now, it could be more complicated than this, as many genes have multiple loci (so you see stuff like AABB or AABb, etc). and as the amount of loci increase, the number of possibilities increases. And if you need a specific combination to get a certain result, well, it would be much harder the more loci.

 

And don't forget, channeling must also have compatibility from the soul, so even if you do get a body that should be able to channel based on its genetics, if a soul that cannot is spun out in it, the person cannot channel. So, lets say Bob the blacksmith is cc. If his soul is not able to channel, it does not matter, he will not. But, if his soul is one that can channel, well, then he could :P

 

So I hope this helps a bit on understanding how channeling gets passed along. You don't have to be able to channel to have a kid that does, you just have to have the trait.

 

 

 

[wavemistresstrammell]

Never thought I would see biology applied to WoT like that haha. That really makes everything much more clear ^.^

[Mashiara Sedai]

notice there's no Oath against an Aes Sedai ordering her Warder to kill or torture

 

In PoD Vandene and Adaleas tell Elayne that they can't allow anyone to shed blood of someone questioned in their name... so I think that Warders wouldn't be allowed to torture if the Aes Sedai was really following the WT rules.

 

I know RJ said it, but I still can't see how they have made the channeling gene less active or apparent.  If the reason was because that's just the way the Wheel weaved it, I'd understand.  But I can't believe that just cause Aes Sedai don't marry and have babies that Channelers are more and more rare.

 

~Mashiara, still confused.

[Alghar Khan]

I'll make the following assumptions:

- channelers were 2.5% of the population in the AoL

- 50% of the potential channelers are removed from the breeding pool

- there is no lack of interbreeding between channelers (which we know is wrong)

- there is only one channeler gene, and the channeler allele is a recessive

 

cc=channeler genotype.

s=selection

q=frequency of c in the whole population

 

Complete dominance selection against c (in cc):

dq= -sq^2*((1-q)/(1-sq^2))

 

dq for the first generation after the Breaking:

dq= -0.5*0.025*((1-(0.025)^-2)/(1-0.5*0.025))= -0.0107

 

Change in percent (of q) for the first generation:

100*0.0107/(0.025^-2)=6.8

 

So, 6.8 percent in change for the first generation. That is going to decrease later on. But still...

 

[Alghar Khan]

If people are 27 when they get children, we will have roughly 110 generations. While those who begin channeling are removed from the breeding pool.

[Alghar Khan]

Random interbreeding between channelers:

0.025*0.025=0.000625

Random interbreeding between channelers and non-channelers:

2*0.025*0.975=0.04875

 

Expected channeler cc offspring, compared to all cc offspring:

(0.000625+0.5*0.1581*0.04875)/0.025=0.179

 

Expected deviation from Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium:

((1-0.5*0.5)*0.000625+0.5*0.5*0.1581*0.04875)/0.025=0.096

 

After the first generation, roughly 10% deviation of channeler frequency is expected. The deviation will be less and less for each generation.

 

[Alghar Khan]

Of course, what I just wrote only applies if all channeler bodies are inhabited by a channeler soul. If not, then the decrease is less than I said.

 

 

 

[Mystica]

xcuse me... *twaps Algar*

 

thats for making me look at math before my second cup o' coffee ;)

[Alghar Khan]

:D

 

(sorry)

[wavemistresstrammell]

Oh god no I hate numbers! They always get the best of me ha.

[Mr Ares]

Uhhhh, I followed most of that and got a little lost there at the end haha.

I'd tell you to read up on the Schutzstaffel, but it's pretty bloody depressing, so I won't.

Haha fair enough, I don't want to be depressed right now haha.

Long story short, they were evil and shooting them can give a real sense of job satisfaction.