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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
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ThePrinceOfRavens

Question(*SPOILERS*)

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DONT READ IF NOT FINISHED KoD

 

Ok so at the end of the book Rand bloody al'Thor gets his hand blown off by Semirhage. And then healed so he know has a stump.

 

I was wondering if anyone else thought of balefire? What if he just got up and blasted her with balefire and got his hand back would that not be easier?

 

Now since that time is passed im wondering will he get his hand back? I mean won't everything get complicated if he has no hand? I believe he will get his hand back some how I just can't think of how. Any ideas?

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It's pretty much accepted theory that they didn't BF her because they want to question her for any knowledge she posesses that would help them. Obivously she won't give in easily, but I have a feeling that Cad and Nyn will be quite effective at retreiving information. Cad especially.

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Maybe so but doesn't having one hand pose problems? I mean i believe that questioning is all well and good but what really do they need to know. Nothing derastic I can see anyways.

 

Also do you think he will get his hand back some how? I think he will somehow I don't know how but he will.

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I seriously doubt if Rand is going to get his hand back and I think it's even less likely that he would balefire her far enough back to make a difference. He knows at this point that balefire has some rather serious consequences and unless I am mistaken has not used it at all since TFoH and his "fight" with Rahvin(somebody correct me if I'm wrong here).

 

RJ has said that the three main characters are loosely based on many people from religion and mythology. Throughout the series, Rand has been getting what amount to Jordan's version of the stigmata (marks on his palms and the wound in his side), making him something of a Christ figure(there's also the "Second Coming" Tarmon Gai'don/Armageddon angle to solidify this connection). As such, he is made to suffer for humainty. He's also somewhat based upon the Norse god of bravery and righteous war, Tyr, who lost his hand to the Fenrir the wolf. And finally, there is the connection of the Fisher (the Fisher King of Arthurian legend and the figure whom Moridin seems obsessed with in his game) who's health is tied to the land.

For all of these reasons, I fairly certain that Rand's current mortal body isn't going to last much longer. That said, I am beginning to come around to the theory that he may switch bodies with Moridin, although I really think it's just a bit too convenient. I'd much rather see him die the tragic hero, sacrificing himself for the world although that probably won't happen.

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He knows at this point that balefire has some rather serious consequences unless I am mistaken has not used it at all since TFoH and his "fight" with Rahvin(somebody correct me if I'm wrong here).

 

He used it against a fog monster when he visited the rebels camp. Also, he balefired Rahvin strongly enoug to undo his actions for about a half hour, maybe more. If he desperately wanted his hand back he could've had it. Frankly, he didn't seem to care other than the fact that he'd have to relearn all the sword forms.

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i was puzzled by the implications of balefiring one "back far enough". moiraine warned him about balefire as killing one with balefire basically wipes out anything that person ever did in the thread.

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thats exactly it mike! Balefire essentially rips ones thread out of the pattern! Therefore that thread doesn't have any effect on the pattern anymore. Depending on strength balefire actually can turn back time (not really) but it essentially undo's any actions the recipiant of said balefiring did in the recent past.

 

Remember in Rhuidean when Mat gets attacked by the shadowhounds (i think it was them) and one manages to slobber on mat and mat remembers the spittle burning his skin like acid but bears no mark of it. It's because Rand used balefire on the hounds and the recent past was undone and mat never sustained the injuries but distinclty remembers it happening!

 

Thus the problem with balefire! If you remember something that never happened, the consequences are far reaching! Or the opposite, if someone no longer exists, and as far as the pattern is concerned never existed, but in reality people remember them there are some serious problems!

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Actually, balefire causes the unfortunate target to cease to exist at some point in time before the actual moment when they were hit with it. It is, I think, explained as "burning the thread out of the pattern". How far back the person or thing ceases to exist is entirely dependent upon how much balefire was used. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, Rand balefired Rahvin back about half an hour. This means that whatever he had done in the last half hour, including killing Matt and Aviendha, no longer happened, though anyone who experiences those things would still remember them.

 

Among other things, tt can cause paradoxes and if enough people are balefired out of existence far enough back in time, the Pattern of the Age and with it reality, begins to unravel.

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Balefire is like an ethereal flame with the ability to burn threads. Take a thread of yarn, and tap one end of it with a lit match. A bit burns off. Now tap it with a bigger flame, and more of it gets burned off.

 

It's what Dice said.

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Not to get away from the Balefire as a cure discussion, but can't all of the Forsaken change appearances at will? I seem to remember Lanfear, Semirage, Rahvin etc. All being able change their appearance. If this is the case and Rand is supposed to be as strong or stronger than any of the Forsaken couldn't Rand. If Rand were to capture a Forsaken (we've seen this before) they could teach him to alter his body to regrow a hand etc.

 

I sure Taim is doing it currently, but that is a whole different discussion.

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Yes, they can (and Rand could, theoretically) change their appearance using the "Mirror of the Mists", however, that is an illusion. They are simply placing an illusory facade over their true features. It does not allow them to grow back body parts.

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Although Rand's loss of hand enforces his mythological connections (Tyr) technically he might be able to get his hand back, after all Semi was the best "restorer" in the AOL she could bring back people who should have been dead, so he could possibly torture her for that info but i doubt he will and i doubt it would work as it wasn't exactly a natural fireball

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There was a celtic god or hero, Ludd or sometimes Llew if I remember correctly who lost his hand and had it replaced by a silver one, Maybe Rand will get a metal hand ( after all the didn't Min have a Viewing that ivolved white hot metal). Perrin might make it for him...uh or perhaps not that is stretching logic a bit.

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Guest cwestervelt
There was a celtic god or hero' date=' Ludd or sometimes Llew if I remember correctly who lost his hand and had it replaced by a silver one, Maybe Rand will get a metal hand ( after all the didn't Min have a Viewing that ivolved white hot metal). Perrin might make it for him...uh or perhaps not that is stretching logic a bit.[/quote']

 

You can add Nudd and Nuada to the list of names. He has a whole slew of names depending on if you are researching from the Briton or the Irish or the Welsh... While he might not be one and the same as Tyr, there are a enough common elements that I would at least suspect a common origin.

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If any of you have read Zelazany's Amber Chronicles. I hope some of you have, it would be stealing completely from the character of Benedict, esp. if it was torn from the World of Dreams.

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Yes' date=' they can (and Rand could, theoretically) change their appearance using the "Mirror of the Mists", however, that is an illusion. They are simply placing an illusory facade over their true features. It does not allow them to grow back body parts.[/quote']

 

Rand can use the mirror of mists. He does so when he goes to get Nynaeve from Caemlyn. He disguises himself as some ugly guy and dresses like a beggar.

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