Please help me understand Rand and Elayne

[Arkelias]

I'm nearly finished with my latest read of the Wheel of Time, and I'm left with a nagging question which has been bothering me since early in the series.  In the very first book Rand meets Elayne for all of about an hour.  The scene ends with her telling him that she thinks he is handsome.

 

They are clearly attracted to each other, which makes sense.  In book three they meet for the second time.  This time they make out in corners for a few weeks, but don't spend more than a dozen hours together during that time.

 

Then Rand heads to the Aiel waste and Elayne goes on to Tanchico.  She leaves him with two letters.  One says she cares for him (not loves), and the other says she wants his guts ripped out and used as yarn to make her a coat.

 

That's the last time Rand sees Elayne until book nine.  Years pass and the two don't see each other, and yet somehow they are desperately in love.  I just don't buy it.  Why would Rand carry a torch for a girl he's met twice, espcially after the second letter she wrote to him?  Why would she focus so much on him?  Well, maybe she's more believable because he is the Dragon Reborn and I'm sure that would appeal to her ego.

 

In his time away Rand has a long and very believable courtship of Aviendha, and the two fall in love even if neither wants to admit it.  This was a great relationship and fun to read.  Afterwards, Rand goes through a lengthly courtship with Min and eventually falls in love with her.  Again, very believable and fun to read.

 

The very next time Rand sees Elayne there is no discussion about their relationship.  They don't date.  They don't spend time getting to know each other.  There's nothing to suggest they are in love.  She asks Rand to take off her dress and they have sex.

 

I'm just not getting this great love story.  What am I missing?  Is there something that I'm not seeing?  Any help is appreciated!

[Mighty Chin]

I think it was pretty clear that Elayne is smitten with him and spends alot of TGH talking about him with Egwene. Hell she was even talking to Else Grinwell about him too since they both had met him. So for her it's sort of a love at first sight thing. As for Rand I think it's more to do with being raised.

[Perrin 187]

Your not the only one, I think this is one of RJ's biggest faults and have brought it up in the past on this board for the exact reasons you just stated.

[JenniferL]

They are in love because the plot calls for it. However, I don't think their relationship is unbelievable. I knew I was going to marry my husband within a few hours of meeting him for the first time.

 

Elayne does comment somewhere that this isn't how she thought she'd fall in love. She expected that she'd build a relationship over time, not fall for the first guy that fell off her garden wall.

[The Desert Pea]

TBQH I find it hard to swallow that Rand loves all three of them equally. Rand seems to love Min more than Elayne and Avi and Min seems to care for him more/has a greater love for him than the other two.

[Talmanes]

As it was stated for Elayne it was love at first sight. Rand does not love them all differently he just feels a need to protect himself by distancing himself from them. Min got past his defenses because he didn't actually think that she loved him. With her he always felt that she could take care of herself more than the others. Since I know there will be a comment about that not being true because of Aviendha being Aiel; remember that she did nearly die once because of him. Also with Min he just kind of gave up on keeping them all away. He finally just gave in and kept her around also because, well he's a guy. Also remember that Rand is ta'veren and influences the pattern. Between that and Min's viewing we are shown that they are destined to all fall in love with him and he them. They may have all had different lengths of time spent with him, but their love is equal. Also right before the part where Rand and Elayne make love all three women see veins of gold through the bond meaning that he loves each of them equally and truly. Well I have already gone into much more depth than I planned so I'll stop here. I hope this helps you to understand.

[buckeyebull64]

For Rand, it's kind of like "you never forget your first". Egwene and Rand was pretty tepid, and then Rand meets his first love.  His later relationships are more mature, but he just can't seem to lose the memory of the Stone, there was no closing of the relationship after the Stone (because apparently, in Randland, breakups just don't happen)

 

Besides, what guy is going to turn down a girl who looks like Elayne when she invites him into bed?  Maybe Perrin, so long as Faile is in the room.

 

For Elayne, call it spoiled or call it determined, she's set her mind on something, and she won't quit until it's hers.

[redbj]

agree.

 

everything about the relationship is rushed and weak.

 

the third woman should have been lanfear.

 

now THAT would have made great literature.

 

who wouldnt have been glued to the ifs and if onlys of that plot sideline.

 

and avi and lanfear sharing a lover.....

[OptimusPrime]

TBQH I find it hard to swallow that Rand loves all three of them equally. Rand seems to love Min more than Elayne and Avi and Min seems to care for him more/has a greater love for him than the other two.

 

I think its only because he has spent more time with Min. Plus, she has nothing to occupy herself with other than Rand. Elayne has a nation to secure and Aviendha is for one thing becoming a Wise One and for another holding herself back from Rand for Elaynes sake.

[Arkelias]

They are in love because the plot calls for it. However, I don't think their relationship is unbelievable. I knew I was going to marry my husband within a few hours of meeting him for the first time.

 

Elayne does comment somewhere that this isn't how she thought she'd fall in love. She expected that she'd build a relationship over time, not fall for the first guy that fell off her garden wall.

 

I'd have a much easier time with the love at first sight if Rand didn't love three women, possibly four.  He was strongly attracted to Selene (Lanfear) in addition to the three girls.  Really though, this just makes him look like a lech.  Sure, there were the golden veins that showed he actually loved them all.  It's just hard to swallow, especially since one is blond, one brunette and one a redhead.  No one else thinks that's stretching things a bit?

 

I just don't think the text did a good job of presenting why they'd care for each other so deeply, at least why Rand would care for Elayne anyway.  I can chalk it up for Ta'veren but that starts getting old when it needs to be applied liberally throughout the series to explain motivation =/

 

I think the idea of replacing Elayne with Lanfear as far as his loves would have made a better story.  That's a great idea!

[Talmanes]

They are in love because the plot calls for it. However, I don't think their relationship is unbelievable. I knew I was going to marry my husband within a few hours of meeting him for the first time.

 

Elayne does comment somewhere that this isn't how she thought she'd fall in love. She expected that she'd build a relationship over time, not fall for the first guy that fell off her garden wall.

 

I'd have a much easier time with the love at first sight if Rand didn't love three women, possibly four.  He was strongly attracted to Selene (Lanfear) in addition to the three girls.  Really though, this just makes him look like a lech.  Sure, there were the golden veins that showed he actually loved them all.  It's just hard to swallow, especially since one is blond, one brunette and one a redhead.  No one else thinks that's stretching things a bit?

 

I just don't think the text did a good job of presenting why they'd care for each other so deeply, at least why Rand would care for Elayne anyway.  I can chalk it up for Ta'veren but that starts getting old when it needs to be applied liberally throughout the series to explain motivation =/

 

I think the idea of replacing Elayne with Lanfear as far as his loves would have made a better story.  That's a great idea!

He is attracted to Selene/Lanfear, not in love. Just because he thinks she is beautiful doesn't mean anything. Do you love every attractive woman you meet?

Secondly I have already explained thoroughly on how it presents why each of them are in love.

Lastly I can't believe you think you know what is better for RJ's story than he does. That goes for redbj too.

[Arkelias]

Talmanes we are welcome to our own opinions.  The Wheel of Time is not the bible, it is not a holy text.  Please don't try to defend it like one.  Its a story, a flawed one that we have every right to debate and discuss.  That's why these forums exist.  If you want to debate a point, great!  Everyone enjoys that. 

 

Rand loving Elayne is not believeable to me.  I think Lanfear being one of his loves would have been a better story.  That's my opinion.  If you disagree why not say why you disagree rather than dismiss it out of hand?

 

Nor did your previous post explain why Rand loved Elayne.  Go back and read it, its on this page.  Please find the part that explains why Rand loves Elayne, and then copy it into a new post and show me.  I think you'll have a hard time doing that since it isn't there.

 

You said why Elayne loved Rand, which is love at first sight.  The same is most definitely not true of Rand, because when he met Elayne he was still in love with Egwene.

 

Also, you are wrong about Min's viewing.  It said three women would fall in love with Rand, but Min is very specific that it says nothing about him loving them back.

[Owners.Inc]

The best solution to this whole problem is to kill Eylane off. You'd instantly quicken the pace of the story, get rid of annoying characters, and Rand can love 2 women equally (which infinitely more believable than 3).

[Talmanes]

Talmanes we are welcome to our own opinions.  The Wheel of Time is not the bible, it is not a holy text.  Please don't try to defend it like one.  Its a story, a flawed one that we have every right to debate and discuss.  That's why these forums exist.  If you want to debate a point, great!  Everyone enjoys that. 

 

Rand loving Elayne is not believeable to me.  I think Lanfear being one of his loves would have been a better story.  That's my opinion.  If you disagree why not say why you disagree rather than dismiss it out of hand?

 

Nor did your previous post explain why Rand loved Elayne.  Go back and read it, its on this page.  Please find the part that explains why Rand loves Elayne, and then copy it into a new post and show me.  I think you'll have a hard time doing that since it isn't there.

 

You said why Elayne loved Rand, which is love at first sight.  The same is most definitely not true of Rand, because when he met Elayne he was still in love with Egwene.

 

Also, you are wrong about Min's viewing.  It said three women would fall in love with Rand, but Min is very specific that it says nothing about him loving them back.

I said for Elayne it was love at first sight. Rand fell in love with her in the Stone. Rand also says by the way specifically that he loves all three. He said although it makes him worse than a lecher he loves all three of them. I did not say that the WoT is a holy text or anything of the sort. My point is that Robert Jordan spent years on the story and made it into exactly what he wanted it to be. Not you nor anyone else can know what is better for the story than him. It is his story. If Elayne was out of the picture, and Rand was in love with Lanfear instead the whole series wouldn't work. The whole point of the series would be completely different. It just would not work. You are, as you said, entitled to your own opinion, but may I suggest actually thinking about it next time?

[dholm]

Rand fell for all three women as soon as he met them. The fact that he doesn't realize it means nothing.

 

Why does he love them? Why, obviously because he finds them immensely attractive, both physically and psychologically. Why do anyone fall in love?

[JenniferL]

Its perfectly okay to comment on something you didn't like or think could be done better. Reasonable people can different opinions on a subject without getting snippy over it.

 

Anyways, I agree that the idea of a man in love with three women at once is a little far fetched. I won't say its impossible, because it's not. I've known some polyamourous couples and it seems to work rather well for them. Its definitely not the typical state of affairs in either our culture, or the Westlands culture in the books.

 

That said, Jordan apparently based this on a real experience he had in his younger, pre-Harriet days, where he dated two girls at once. Both were best friends with each other and were aware of each other. They'd plan which of them he'd take out each night of the week together and tell him what to buy the other one for Christmas and birthdays. He said that if he could have that, then a guy like Rand could totally have three.

 

Also, there are specific mythological reasons why these three women in particular are connected to Rand. Together, the represent the Triple Goddess of Maiden (Aviendha), Mother(Elayne) and Crone (Min). Additionally, Avi and Elayne both represent sovereignty goddesses.  

[Owners.Inc]

D'you get that from the 13th despo?

[Mr.Big]

The best solution to this whole problem is to kill Eylane off. You'd instantly quicken the pace of the story, get rid of annoying characters, and Rand can love 2 women equally (which infinitely more believable than 3).

I totally agree,Elayne and Talamanes are totally annoying.

[Mr.Big]

I think a more interesting devolopment than a blonde,brunette and red-head girlfriend would be a black,asian,latina,and white girlfriend.And maybe an Eskimo(unless they're considered to be asian).

[Owners.Inc]

What stretches imagination as much as Rand's thing for Eylane is how he keeps thinking about Min throughout TSR and TFOH. I mean, I can totally understand why he would be dreaming about Eylane and Avi, but why would Min pop in at that time?

[Luckers]

D'you get that from the 13th despo?

 

The three faces of the goddess idea has been around for a while. I think it was first suggested by Tenshin about four years ago--though I may be wrong about that.

[Sharaman]

What's so tough to understand? In Rand, you have a horny 20-year-old who comes from an extremely sexually repressed culture (vide his thoughts about the reactions of the TR's wisdoms and women's circles). His hormones ensure he gets turned on every time he meets a hawt woman and Avi, Min and El are all very H. If the woman reciprocates, or at the least, doesn't discourage him, he gets even more turned on. The only way he can process and come to terms with his urges is to decide he "loves" them. Ditto the women.

Happens all the time in sexually repressed societies - there's too much guilt otherwise. The only unusual thing is that he's handsome and powerful and quite a few women are prepared to break boundaries with him.

[JenniferL]

Snippiness deleted. Come on, dude.

 

Owners Inc. I did get that from reading the 13th Depository. I love that blog. I always feel so smart after reading an article there and its really boosted my appreciation and understanding of the series.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Also, there are specific mythological reasons why these three women in particular are connected to Rand. Together, the represent the Triple Goddess of Maiden (Aviendha), Mother(Elayne) and Crone (Min). Additionally, Avi and Elayne both represent sovereignty goddesses.  

Funny... I always made a mental connection between Elayne & courage, Avienda & strength and Min & cunning. 

 

Otherwise, I thought the connection with Elayne seemed pretty genuine.  He seemed to be pretty blown away by her at their impromptu meeting in Caemlyn.  Course at that time, he never thought he'd have a chance at the Daughter Heir.  He did start dreaming about her & swimming / skinny dipping in the waterwood.  Then they had a pretty hot romance in Tear.  Not too far fetched I think.