How did Moiraine identify the forsaken?

[Manjunathan]

I always wanted to know since I have read tDR. Moiraine not only knows there is a forsaken in Illian and Tear and even know who they are. I thought only Rand remembered their faces.

 

In KoD even Cadsuane(who is far more experienced than Moiraine) fails to identify Semirhage.

 

 

If this is discussed anywhere else in DM, please give me d link :) ;)

[Vordreller]

To be bold, every time Moiraine said something about a Forsaken, they had already identified themselves to her directly or shown to be darkfriend+powerfull channeler+knowledge of previous age.

 

As for as Asmodean goes, the Forsaken are probably required learning material for Novices and up, so she probably knows he's the only Forsaken capable of playing music.

 

Semirhage simply never identified herself or encountered anybody from the group before they captured her.

[Manjunathan]

To be bold, every time Moiraine said something about a Forsaken, they had already identified themselves to her directly or shown to be darkfriend+powerfull channeler+knowledge of previous age.

 

As for as Asmodean goes, the Forsaken are probably required learning material for Novices and up, so she probably knows he's the only Forsaken capable of playing music.

 

Semirhage simply never identified herself or encountered anybody from the group before they captured her.

But how did she know it was Sammael in Illian and Bel'al in Tear?

[Balefire to da face!]

Well, Moiraine knew that the Forsaken were free by then. It doesn't take much deduction to know that they would begin taking root in places of power in the large cities. I beleive both Illian and Tear had other clues that something just wasn't right(like the darkhounds).

 

We know Moiraine is very good at collecting intel(in fact in Illian didn't she even explain that she figured out a Forsaken had taken over by the circumstances of the King dissapearing...can't remember for sure). The only missing piece is how she knew who they were.....and maybe Vordreller is right, novices and such were just taught certain things about the Forsaken. Appearence being one of them. Or maybe she learned it along the way searching for Rand?

[Sab]

Well to start all the Forsaken followed the same pattern, an unknown person no one had heard of showing up, suddenly getting power.  She might of suspected Rhavin but he was smart not to openly take power.  hd she visted Andor while he was there she might of suspected Gabriel as one too.  Asmo she just had to use her eavesdropping ability to listen in on Rand and Asmo's teachings.  Not sure if we can ever say for certain how she knew the names of the Forsaken in power.  Wasn't there something about Sammuel not shielding his dreams in the dragon Reborn?

[Aiemond]

People were having dreams...In Illian it was of Lord Brend, and in Tear we had the callandor dreams. This in and of itself is a very powerful indication. As for her being able to know which is which...Moraine spent her life looking for the DR and after she went back to the tower I believe she looked up even more information about them. She would have more information about them than any other AS except a brown who specialized in it, Suian and Verin. It gives no indication that Cadsuane had much of an idea that the Dragon was being reborn before the events really got started. Toman Head or Tear is prolly when she became aware.

[Sab]

Aiemond has good points.  Plus we know Cadsuane wasn't spending her time studying Forsaken or the Dragon Reborn, she was hunting the Black Ajah and false dragons.  Moraine had 20 years to start her studies and once she knew the Forsaken were free she wenting hunting for information.  Cad had no way to know the Forsaken were free yet.

[Mighty Chin]

As for Asmodean, I believe she had a suspicion when he sang a very old story , a version she had never heard of that mentioned places unknown to her.

[Aiemond]

As for Asmodean, I believe she had a suspicion when he sang a very old story , a version she had never heard of that mentioned places unknown to her.

 

I think she was using her charm to eavesdrop as well. I think in the FOH when Egwene goes in to talk to her after being kicked out by Rand (so he could talk to Asmodean) Moraine was using it.

[buckeyebull64]

She just knew of them, not what they looked like.  She knew the two at the eye of the world when they appeared because they announced themselves.  She could piece together Lord Brend without ever seeing him, and as for Be'lal, who else would be swordfighting with Rand while discussing the Age of Legends?  Asmo was easy to figure out for her, since she knew what to look for.

[Manjunathan]

Doesn't Moraine herself says very little is known about the forsaken?

I can quite understand about Asmo.

 

I also understand that she could figure out that Lord Brend was a forsaken. But how did she know it was Sammael?She just goes scouting about in the city ,comes back and tell Perrin that Sammael rules in Illian.

Similarly in Tear somehow she finds out High Lord Samon(??) was Bel'al. That was before she saw him swordfighting with Rand. 

 

[kasper11]

My guess is that she came across some rare information about the foresaken during TGH.  We don't know how long she was at the farm (I think) but knowing that at least two of the foresaken had broken free I think we can assume that she would have looked for info on the rest.

[Luckers]

On Asmodean, she likely know from the Aiel future rings. Though as another poster stated she was also eavesdropping on his and Rand's private discussions. She'd definately have overheard then.

 

As for Asmodean, I believe she had a suspicion when he sang a very old story , a version she had never heard of that mentioned places unknown to her.

 

What you're thinking of is when he sings a song about the Trolloc Wars, and Mat remembers that things hadn't be quite that way. Moiraine gives no indications of her thoughts on his songs.

 

 

Doesn't Moraine herself says very little is known about the forsaken?

I can quite understand about Asmo.

 

I also understand that she could figure out that Lord Brend was a forsaken. But how did she know it was Sammael?She just goes scouting about in the city ,comes back and tell Perrin that Sammael rules in Illian.

Similarly in Tear somehow she finds out High Lord Samon(??) was Bel'al. That was before she saw him swordfighting with Rand. 

 

 

That's not to say nothing is known--for instance Sammael's scar is pretty distinctive, and with a historical origin (recieving it from Lews Therin) and thus likely to last in the history.

 

And remember Moiraine had just spent months with Adeleas and Vandene, and the Forsaken was one of the subjects she states specifically that she was studying.