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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Mat = Odin?


Rinkai
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I understand the signs of the Mat Odin Parallel. (Losing an eye and the whole trickster thing.) But I don't understand why. Odin is so central to his mythologies, and even though Mat is one the main characters it seems like Rand or Lews Therin would be more deserving.

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That is a good question, in mythology Odin changed, in the peoples and worshipers minds, from one type of god to another, at first Odin was the god or war, and was seen as being very frighting indeed, then many years later he was the god of harvest, and was seen as a kinder figure in mythology, I think, that Jordan is writing about the harvest Odin and not the god of war, this Odin is represented as the wander, and seen as having great knowledge and wisdom, which I believe Matt has. 

 

Gilgamesh is Rand, or so I've come to understand, and I believe the wheel of time is somewhat of a retelling of that story, so it would make sense to have the main character as Gilgamesh and not Odin.  The reason I think that it is a retailing of the Epic of Gilgamesh is because Rands journey mimics the Gilgamesh Epic.  We all loved him at first, then politics change him and we all hate him, then he dose something, maybe in the final battle, to redeem himself and well we all love him again, which is pretty much how Gilgamesh is.

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There is a decent amount of Norse mythology where Odin and Loki are actually two halves of a whole. So Odin can come about as sly and tricky.

 

But whether you believe the trickster thing or not, it still seems odd to me.

 

I never picked up on Rand Gilgamesh comparison I was always focused on the Christ allegory. I'll have to look into that in my next read through.

 

Who is Perrin? Thor? Baldur? Thor seems a bit obvious with the hammer, but I don't know much else about him to build off of.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

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I've always seen Rand as more Tyr--though whole loss of a hand defeating an enemy comes to mind--I don't actually know alot about Gilgamesh so I'll go do some homework.

 

Rand and Christ comparisons are a big no-go to my mind. Rand and Jesus are utterly different in their natures--almost diametrically so--Jesus was a spiritual leader who came to teach and heal, Rand is a warrior who doesn't give two jacks about his peoples spiritual health--or actual health--he's there to save the human race, not the individual or their soul.

 

They do have their points of similarity, but those points are shared across many mythologies--the stigmata/unhealing wounds, the virgin/'maiden' birth... what are the others again?

 

In the end both are messianic figures--and thats it. Mythology is littered with such figures.

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For Rand compared to Christ there is 

 

herons on the hands = nail wounds

wound on the side = spear wound to kill Christ

Sacrificial lamb metaphor

Crown of swords = crown of thorns

creators agent on earth

comes from the desert

hears Lews Therin = heards God  (this one is a stretch)

 

Anyone know who Perrin is supposed to be?

 

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ya i can see the Matt Odin thing also  :)

i agree about Tyr for Rand he fits that demeanor ;D

Perrin i think about maybe Heimdall gaurding the bridge w/ his life if need be ;)

 

i begin to see a thing w/ thier ta'veren also Rand is Balance , Matt is Chance / randomness, and Perrin is Pattern  ::) eh just something ive been thinking of  ;D

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I looked up some information about Tyr, and I can see how Rand and him match up, I also think RJ used the Epic of Gilgamesh as some inspiration, but I haven't found anything to support it, so its really just from my thinking.

 

I believe I heard somewhere that Perrin was styled after Zeus, but once again I can't find the source for it, however thinking that Perrin is like Zeus would that make Fail like Hera?

 

I don't see how Christ and Rand are the same, mainly because there disposition is vastly different, in other words I don't see Rand turning the other cheek, and Rand is also not much of a healer.

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I looked up some information about Tyr, and I can see how Rand and him match up, I also think RJ used the Epic of Gilgamesh as some inspiration, but I haven't found anything to support it, so its really just from my thinking.

 

I believe I heard somewhere that Perrin was styled after Zeus, but once again I can't find the source for it, however thinking that Perrin is like Zeus would that make Fail like Hera?

 

I don't see how Christ and Rand are the same, mainly because there disposition is vastly different, in other words I don't see Rand turning the other cheek, and Rand is also not much of a healer.

 

Well, RJ surely didn't take a mythological figure and make of it his character.

 

We can say he merged some features of different gods/heroes into original character - but no "Mat = Odin" or "Rand = Christ", no. He's a much better writer than that...

 

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Well, RJ surely didn't take a mythological figure and make of it his character.

 

We can say he merged some features of different gods/heroes into original character - but no "Mat = Odin" or "Rand = Christ", no. He's a much better writer than that...

 

 

I'm sure not all aspects of his characters are based completely on any one mythological figure, but there are similarities, like Odin losing his eye, and Tyr giving up his hand to Fenrir, and Zeus's legendary temper.  If RJ based his characters completely on the three gods personality and motives, then they wouldn't be mortal would they, and that would be a different story indeed, which I do believe has nothing to do with his writing skills.

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Some things to keep in mind...

 

The way RJ has set up his loans from various myths, the characters in WOT are often supposed to be the inspiration for the characters in our mythologies. And as soon as you add the word 'inspiration' to the mix, you allow for things to be obscured by the passage of time.

 

With that in mind, look at where Mat is in the story, and where he is headed. Of the three TR lads, he is the one who has the greatest chance of being remembered at least somewhat correctly, and definitly most likely to make an impact on the world post-TG. Come on, he is married to the empress of the Seanchan, and has pretty much single-handed modernised warfare.

 

Rand, on the other hand...Other than defeating the DO, he will not have done anything that really makes a lasting impact. As Thom said in TSR, he will be lucky if people even remembers his name after a while. And thus it makes perfect sense that he "is" Tyr, the Norse God that very little is known about.

 

And if we go one step further, and look at Perrin. He is supposed to "be" Tor. Who by many is considered to be the most prominent of the Gods.

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I think Tyr fits rand better then Gilgamesh, however I still believe that the Epic of Gilgamesh is sprinkled in rands tail, but that's just my own judgment.  I've never heard of "Tor", and I think I'll look into it a bit.

 

I would have thought Rand would be remembered most of all of them, the reason I say this is because, Rand took control of many kingdoms, changed the laws in almost all of them, is the talk of many an aes sedai, started the black tower, united the Aiel and then broke them, and is the Dragon Reborn, being the single most important thing in the Wheel of Time world.

Besides Bella of course.

 

 

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And if we go one step further, and look at Perrin. He is supposed to "be" Tor. Who by many is considered to be the most prominent of the Gods.

You misspelled "Thor," and you're Swedish.....

 

It's like a Greek misspelling Zeus.

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And if we go one step further, and look at Perrin. He is supposed to "be" Tor. Who by many is considered to be the most prominent of the Gods.

You misspelled "Thor," and you're Swedish.....

 

It's like a Greek misspelling Zeus.

 

Hmm, a Swedish version of a Norse name versus an English version...Wonder which one that is the correct one... ::)

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And if we go one step further, and look at Perrin. He is supposed to "be" Tor. Who by many is considered to be the most prominent of the Gods.

You misspelled "Thor," and you're Swedish.....

 

It's like a Greek misspelling Zeus.

 

Hmm, a Swedish version of a Norse name versus an English version...Wonder which one that is the correct one... ::)

I thought they were the same because English and Swedish come from the same root language, Old German.

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Languages change over time, including spelling. Especially when it concerns languages that have grown sp radically apart when it comes to pronounciation. And typically, pronouncation dictates spelling, not the other way around.

 

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Rand, on the other hand...Other than defeating the DO, he will not have done anything that really makes a lasting impact. As Thom said in TSR, he will be lucky if people even remembers his name after a while. And thus it makes perfect sense that he "is" Tyr, the Norse God that very little is known about.

He did build those schools and if the guy who was working on the steam wagon succeeds, can't remember his name, it will be the greatest discovery of the time. And hey everybody still remembers Lews Therin, so I think he will be remembered for a long time.

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He did build those schools and if the guy who was working on the steam wagon succeeds, can't remember his name, it will be the greatest discovery of the time. And hey everybody still remembers Lews Therin, so I think he will be remembered for a long time.

 

And who do you think will get the credit for that, the guy who asked a bunch of smart people to start a school, or the guy who is parading the steam wagon all over the place?

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He did build those schools and if the guy who was working on the steam wagon succeeds, can't remember his name, it will be the greatest discovery of the time. And hey everybody still remembers Lews Therin, so I think he will be remembered for a long time.

 

And who do you think will get the credit for that, the guy who asked a bunch of smart people to start a school, or the guy who is parading the steam wagon all over the place?

I know he won't get credit for the discovery, my point was that he did some stuff to be remembered and that will make a lasting impact, and that he probably will be remembered.

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i associate Rand with Tyr as well, though I can't remember much about Tyr other than the loss of his hand, i may as well associate Rand with Luke Skywalker at that point.  But the Mat/Odin Comparison is much tighter in my mind.  The Ravens, thought and memory, the spear, the losing of an eye, gaining knowledge under the great tree.  Too many parallels to ignore.  Not sure who Perrin would tie into, the hammer thing being a bit of a tenuous link to Thor.  He might be more accurately tied into Fenris, even though he didn't bite off Rand's hand. Maybe he will slay Mat at the last battle, though I find that unlikely since I believe some of RJ's planned outriggers involved Mat in Seanchan.  So maybe Thor is the more accurate comparison.  Maybe Haphaestus (sp?)?

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