Rebirth

[Moridin_Naeblis]

Hey, i was just wondering. In the WoT world, does everyone get reborn or is it just special people?

[Kadere]

Just special people. I'm sure Maj or Leaf or somebody will know more then I do, but I'm pretty sure you have to have done something fantastically fantastic to be tied. Like Birgette Silverbow, or Artur Hawkwing, or Lews Therin etc etc, they'll be reborn over and over again, because they accomplished so much and did so many great things. But somebody like Joe the bartender isn't going to be reborn over and over and over again.

 

That's why it's such a mystery as to whether Birgette will be reborn again since she's now been ripped from the Wheel. Will her actions this time around reconnect her? We don't know yet.

[KellySedai]

Actually, it says that EVERYONE is reborn from the Wheel of Time, but only the special people are reborn as themselves. Birgette, Artur Hawkwing, the Dragon, people like that are always themselves at the core, even if they don't know it each time. Ordinary people are reborn over and over, but they are not the same people at all and never have ANY memories of their former lives. The special people also stay in Tel'aran'riod until they are spun back into the Pattern so they are conscious of themselves there. Regular people don't get that, so that is the primary difference.

[Guest Majsju]

Kelly summed it up nicely. Everyone is reborn. But some people are reborn in a special way, the Heroes who gets bound to the Horn (and the Wheel) will only be reborn when there's need for Heroes walking around, and they will probably always be some kind of Heroes, most likely a reminiscent of the person they were when they got attached to the Horn.

The Dragon seems to only be reborn when it's time for him to fight the DO one way or another.

[Incubate]

i agree with them but reading this brought up an interesting question...

 

If a hero is called useing the Horn, and are Killed, are they just sent back to TAR so the Horn can just summon them again? or are they no longer a hero to be brought back?

Could Mat just sit there continuesly blowing on the Horn and all the Heros that die in Battle just pop back and say, "Booyah, back again" and continue killing things?

Does it work like that?

[Jorik Alarin]

Im pretty sure that none of the heroes of the horn can actually re-die(is that a word?), in TGH the battle ebbed and flowed with rand and the heroes but i distinctly remembering reading somewhere about the heroes not being able to really be affected by anything of this world. So as long as they are "dead" they cant really be "Killed".

[Guest cwestervelt]

The battle at Falme gave me the impression that the heroes (when summoned by the Horn) are not subject to wounds or death. Their success was based on how Rand faired against Ishmael. Neither are they constrained by physical laws as one of them (Birgitte I think) actually rode her horse out onto the bay.

[CowardsLiveLonger]

I got the impression that they couldnt die!!

Saying that though what kind of battle would it be if one side had an entire regiment (couldnt think of the word) that couldnt die!! It would totally suck.... if they dont suffer wounds either then they probably arent gonna suffer from fatigue which sucks even more.... We have hundreds of heroes that dont get tired and dont die, I really cant see that happening!!! But maybe it will...........

But I must say I do like your idea about someone poping up and saying "Booyah, back again"

 

What would happen about the heroes that had already been reborn when the horn is blown???? there may not be just saying there was!!Would they just be like a mortal person who rocked!! or would they feel some kind of pull from the horn...... I may not have made myself clear.... sorry if I didnt!!!

It would be cool if Ingtar came up with the horn :D cant see it happening but still.....

[Guest cwestervelt]

I got the impression that they couldnt die!!

Saying that though what kind of battle would it be if one side had an entire regiment (couldnt think of the word) that couldnt die!! It would totally suck.... if they dont suffer wounds either then they probably arent gonna suffer from fatigue which sucks even more.... We have hundreds of heroes that dont get tired and dont die, I really cant see that happening!!! But maybe it will...........

But I must say I do like your idea about someone poping up and saying "Booyah, back again"

 

It is a battle that is determined by the success or failure of the Dragon, not by what wounds they take or give. If the Dragon is losing his personal part of the Battle, the Heroes get pushed back. If the Dragon is winning, then the Heroes win.

[CowardsLiveLonger]

ohhhhhh!!!

Now I get it......... thanks!!! and sorry for the little rant..... I didnt realise it sounded that bad!!!

I wasnt trying to be dick or anything!!!

[Luckers]

We do not know if the Dragon's connection to the heroes that we saw at Falme is always the case. Indeed, it seems unlikely that it could be, concidering that anyone can blow the horn in any age whether the dragon is near or not. My guess would be that the influence Rand and Ba'alzamons battle had on the heroes at Falme resulted from a mixture of Rand's ta'verenism and the nature of the weave of that moment (which we saw directly influence reality in other ways, like throwing down the false dragons and throwing and image of Rand and Ba'alzamon accross the sky)

 

Which still does raise the issue of the inherent strength of the heroes... would it not be theoretically possible to use them alone and still win the Last battle... if they cannot die, cannot tire... Ingtar certainly seemed to be suggesting that. Of course the Dark Ones power would likely play a part... and who knows was a channeler with direct knowledge of the heroes natures could do... we've seen Moggy play that game.

[teehee]

I wonder who made the horn?

[Demandred Valerius]

...interesting question ive no clue., anyone else, is it mentioned in the books.. i havnt come across it.

[rochaid]

i think it was in the 1st age it was made...along with portal stones...they are both mentioned as bein legends in the age of legends itself.thom tells tales of giants merk and mosc...before the age of legnds,who fought with spears of fire,that reached around the world(nucleur missilles)i think these are america and moscow. other than these rumours its not mentioned (as far as i know) anywhere where or when it was made.

[Slothman]

I was always under the impression that the horn had always existed, it was made by the creator when he started the wheel's turning, an it would always exist, I am sure i remember artur paendrag telling rand that they had fought side by side countless times, but had fought against eachother countless times aswell, this to me means that the horn is eternal... although i have no idea how mat is going to come into posession of it a second time to blos it at tarmon gaidon, oh i know he'll blow it again, i'm just curious as to how he gets it to blow it :)

[teehee]

i thought the portal stones were made before the first age but your probably right.

and i agree about the horn always being there but i'm not sure about the creator making it. perhaps it was made by men (although they must have been almost at the peak of technology

[rochaid]

u could be right but if the wheel turns that means the horn could be made again and again with the countlees turnings of the wheel...that explains hawkwings comment

[Luckers]

The Horn was made at a time when the Old tongue was spoken which means the end of the first age or in the Age of Legends at some stage. The portal stones too come from a time when channeling exists, which likely means early in the second rather then the first.

[rochaid]

in the great hunt it suggests the portal stones were from the 1st age ("an age pre-dating the age of legends") but the person(i think it was verin) could be mistaken.but it also says it in the guide.

[Justin]

Would it be possible to rip all the heroes bound to the horn out of Tar, making the horn virtually useless? Let's assume Gaidal Cain is reborn. With Brigette being ripped out of Tar, does that mean that there are now two less heroes bound to the horn, or is there two back-up heroes to take their place in case that happens?

Rand said that somehow he knew there would be 100 heroes in TGH, is that because there is 100 even if a hero is reborn or ripped out?

[Ehecatl]

What I've always wondered is, if the Horn calls people tied to the wheel, why is the engraving in the Old Tongue? Obviously that's not some sort of eternal language, both because RJ has said (I believe) that this is supposed to be our world, and because the characters in the novel don't speak the Old Tongue. I figured it was just an oversight on RJ's part, but someone above me said maybe it's remade every now and then..any other ideas on that?

[Luckers]

Which is why i suggest that the Horn is not an ancient thing, but rather a construct that taps into the hero effect. Obviously there were people who knew the nature of the heros being bound to the wheel, and its entirely possible that someone tapped into this effect to create a weapon.

 

The direct quote about the stones is that it is believed that they may even be from an age before the Age of Legends. Concidering, however, that we know that they use the One Power and the First Age ended with the discovery of the One Power, i suggest they come from very early in the Second Age.

[rochaid]

i accept that but we don't know how long the 1st age ended after the discovery of the power...and i presume there is nearly always a good decade lost in the start of a new age.i also accept that it makes no difference what so ever!

[Ehecatl]

Just because it's implied that the Portal Stones came from an Age earlier than the Second Age doesn't mean it had to be the First, I mean in this world time is cyclical, it coulda come from the Seventh Age of the last spinning, or even earlier than that.

[rochaid]

doubtful that a construct would last as long as that though..the start of every book.legend passes to myth until eventually all is forgotten