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Who is stronger?


Zagorac

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There is nothing that says that it must be the correct one.
Nothing that says it isn't. If we are told Lanfear is the strongest woman, possibly second strongest Chosen and probably as strong as it's possible for a woman to be, then why should we disregard that when we have nothing to the contrary? It might not be much to go on, but a little is better than nothing. Until we have evidence to challenge her provisional placement as second strongst Chosen, we should accept that she is. That is my standard of evidence. Because the evidence leans in one direction. Again, cease the pretence of knowing my standards of evidence, because clearly you don't. The mere fact of having standards of evidence beyond what you want to be true is a start. If the scant evidence we have suggests she is strongest woman, possibly second strongst, then unless and until we have a reason to challenge that placement we accept it. Because to deny what little we have by way of evidence does us no favours.

If we can question information given in the series, then why can't we question information given in the Big White Book? What makes the information given there any more reliable than any other information? "Possibly the second strongest chosen", that's the right way of saying it. It also means that it's possible that she isn't the second strongest Forsaken. We don't know that she is as strong as it's possible for a woman to be. What evidence do we have to disregard? Aren't you the one looking for absolutely 100% certain TRUTHS, and NOTHING that could be interpretated any other way - EVER!!! And then you say "if the scant evidence we have", as if it's suddenly not your mission in life to question EVERYTHING in every possible (and impossible) way. If we're gonna question everything that can be questioned, then we can't know much. Certainly not anywhere near as much as you've claimed in the past.

 

I said that he very well could be. There's a difference, you know.
And no relevance either way, because, as you might know if you read what I wrote, rather than just what you would like me to have written, is that we cannot place him. Anywhere. Your comments are irrelevant.

My comment was that we cannot place him. Anywhere. Obviously the ones that provided the text in the BWB couldn't give any info on his strength, either. That means that it's possible that he is stronger than Lanfear, Aginor and a lot of other Forsaken. A possibility for a character to have "lied" is enough for you to dismiss the whole thing. Therefore, logically, anything else of dubious nature (including most of the Forsaken & AoL info in the BWB) must be dismissed as evidence. Meaning, we know next to nothing. All according to the Teachings of Ares.

 

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What is difficult to understand?
Your attempts at english. As for the rest of your post, what is the problem? We are given evidence to place certain people, and none to contradict it, therefore it is a reasonable working list in the absence of contradictory evidence. Many of your placements lacked supporting evidence, making them just random wishful thinking - Graendal stronger than Moghedien for example. We have nothing either way, so we cannot place them. But we are told Lanfear is the strongest woman, so we can accept that she is until we have reason not to, and that she is the second strongest Chosen until we have reason not to. Because we are given reasons to think that in the first place. No contradiction, outside of that you wish to imagine. If you actually read what I wrote, not your fantasy vesion of what you wished I wrote, you would see that.

 

Here is another study of inconsistent thinking:

It is possible to partially hide strength in the Power, at least for women.

 

Yes, but not to fake strain - "to overflowing". Aginor was insulted when Rand said that his Gateways would "take too much time".

How do you know that?

…, or something happened that has no evidence to support, that has not been so much as hinted at over the course of eleven books. Eleven books with not a clue to support it, against a theory supported by evidence. Which does your background tell you is more reasonable to support? I take it you have heard of Occam's Razor?
Where is the inconsistency? I say women can do something, so it is plausible men can too, you say it is impossible to fake strain, I ask you to support your claim. You can't, because there is nothing to support the claim. There is evidence to support the possibility of faking a maximum strength - we've seen it done. Lanfear, in the WT, disguised as a novice, yet no-one comments on her obscene strength? Not to mention the RJ quote on the matter. On the other hand, you made the claim that has no evidence to support it. Typical of you. You're wrong, Nightstrike. Accept that and stop. This is just masochism on your part.

 

If we can question information given in the series, then why can't we question information given in the Big White Book?
We can, when we have reason. When we have reason. You never understood that, did you? No matter how many times I say it, you just can't take it in. If we are told something and have no reason to challenge it, why should we? If we have reason to challenge it, do so. We have no real reason to challenge the placements I have made on Chosen strength, but those you make are just random guesses, with nothing to support them. They fall apart like a poorly made house of cards after even the slightest scrutiny.
Aren't you the one looking for absolutely 100% certain TRUTHS, and NOTHING that could be interpretated any other way - EVER!!!
Firstly, as that is a question, it should end with a question mark. Secondly, the answer is no. I'm not the one looking for absolutely 100% certain truths and nothing that could be interpreted any other way, I'm looking for placements we can make with a reasonable degree of certainty with supporting eivdence - hence, Ishy, Lanfear, Aginor. Reasonable certainty. Not absolute. Demandred above Aginor? Unsupported, no reasonable certainty. Graendal above Moghedien? Semi and Mesaana equal? Both unsupported, so while they are possible, we don't have a reasonable degree of certainty, yet you state them as facts. It is equally possible that Semi and Mesaana are at different strengths, that Graendal and Moggy are the same or even that Moggy is the stronger of the two. You lack any evidence to make claims, yet you do so anyway. You never understood my points or my methods, so it is unsurprising that you consistently misinterpret them, and make yourself look foolish in the process.

 

My comment was that we cannot place him. Anywhere.
Funny, that was my point too. So we cannot put him anywhere, and s must disregard him for the purposes of this. We have no degree of certainty to any placement. Are you prepred to actually try and understand my point, or will you just talk rubbish again? Maybe respond with the same page of irrelevant quotes that you've used however many times before? Whatever you do, I'm sure you will be more than capable of making yourself look an idiot while doing it.
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As for the rest of your post, what is the problem?

You've stated the problem. You did. Read the two quotes I provided.

 

We are given evidence to place certain people, and none to contradict it, therefore it is a reasonable working list in the absence of contradictory evidence.

First of all, we WERE given something that I used to think was contradictory evidence. But now, since I'm a follower of the Teachings of Ares, I can see that there is no evidence that cannot be questioned. Secondly, we have no "evidence" that places them anywhere. The BWB is a dubious source at best. Not good enough, according to the teachings of Ares. Try reading the preface. I highly recommend it, especially since you've trusted everything else in the BWB so far.

 

We have nothing either way, so we cannot place them.

Yes, I can see that now. The Light of Ares has opened up my eyes.

 

But we are told Lanfear is the strongest woman, so we can accept that she is until we have reason not to, and that she is the second strongest Chosen until we have reason not to.

What now, "until we have reason not to". We have no reason to believe that she is the second strongest chosen. BWB say "POSSIBLY". That is not a fact of Ares. Nowhere near.

 

Where is the inconsistency? I say women can do something, so it is plausible men can too, you say it is impossible to fake strain, I ask you to support your claim.

Faking something and hiding something is not the same thing (very few women could hide strength). We've never heard that faking strain can be done. Asmo never told Rand about it. Aginor was insulted when Rand thought his Gateways were too small. You made something up to support your personal preferance, and you can't even prove that it can be done. Even worse, you can't prove that Aginor would know. Occam's Razor having holiday, right?

 

We can, when we have reason. When we have reason. You never understood that, did you? No matter how many times I say it, you just can't take it in.

So, are you telling me you're not just the boss of Occams' Razor, but that you're the boss of all evidence as well. You decide when we should disregard something, and when we shouldn't. That's wonderful.

 

If we are told something and have no reason to challenge it, why should we?

But, that's what you're doing all the time. You claim people lie to themselves, lie to each other, may be misinformed, or whatever... You claim information could be wrong, so it's not good for proof. But the dubious information in the BWB should be trusted as proof. In fact you're claiming things like "Demandred is definately not stronger than Aginor".

 

If we have reason to challenge it, do so.

We always have reason to challenge it when you say so. Often you're even inventing new things & new situations to explain why things shouldn't be accepted as fact.  Challenge it, but only on YOUR say so - that's the principle.

 

My comment was that we cannot place him. Anywhere.
Funny, that was my point too. So we cannot put him anywhere, and s must disregard him for the purposes of this. We have no degree of certainty to any placement. Are you prepred to actually try and understand my point, or will you just talk rubbish again? Maybe respond with the same page of irrelevant quotes that you've used however many times before? Whatever you do, I'm sure you will be more than capable of making yourself look an idiot while doing it.

Yeah, that was funny. Especially since you claimed that what I was saying was "irrelevant". But, the conclusion is simple - we don't know that Lanfear is the second strongest chosen & we don't know that Aginor is the second strongest man.  What can we be sure about? I don't know. You're always having a good time when you're a disciple of Ares.

 

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You've stated the problem. You did. Read the two quotes I provided.
There's no problem there, Nightstrike, save that which exists solely in your diseased mind.

 

First of all, we WERE given something that I used to think was contradictory evidence.
No, we weren't.
But now, since I'm a follower of the Teachings of Ares
No, you're not. You claim you are, but you are still a follower of the teachings of Nightstrike: Talk shite, keep talking shite, keep talking shite.
The BWB is a dubious source
But it is a source, and it is evidence.
Not good enough, according to the teachings of Ares.
No, according to the teachings of Mr Ares (my name does still have a Mr, get it right, you twat) it is enough. Unless we have something to contradict it, to say that something it says is wrong, we can accept it. A few errors are no reason to toss the baby out with the bathwater.
Try reading the preface.
Try shutting the hell up and reading something other than what you'd like people to have written.

 

What now, "until we have reason not to". We have no reason to believe that she is the second strongest chosen. BWB say "POSSIBLY".
That is a reason. Try reading what you wrote you self-contradictory, little halfwit. Do we have a reason to believe she isn't? No. Therefore, we can speculatively place her.

 

Faking something and hiding something is not the same thing (very few women could hide strength).
You base any of that on what evidence? It may be unknown now, but we have no reason to elieve it is difficult. And we don't know what form a man hiding his strength would take, if it was possible.
Asmo never told Rand about it.
Asmo was a piss-poor teacher, and he didn't tell Rand anything he didn't ask to be told for a long time, but we still don't know the bulk of what he taught Rand.
Aginor was insulted when Rand thought his Gateways were too small.
Are you ever going to get around to a quote? You quoting skills so far have been shown to be highly dubious, at best. More accurately, you just copy out something a bit like what the books say, and interpret it to mean whatever you want.

 

So, are you telling me you're not just the boss of Occams' Razor, but that you're the boss of all evidence as well.
I'm telling you nothing of the sort. And your question lacks a question mark, and Occam's Razor should have the apostrophe before the s. If we have no reason to disregard something, it is idiotic to do so, hence your fondness for it.

 

You claim people lie to themselves
RJ claimed that. The authority on the series. Backed up by a quote from the man himself.
lie to each other
Because they do, we see it in the books.
may be misinformed
We see that time and again in the books.
You claim information could be wrong
Because we see time and again it could be, but I only disregard it with reeason. You do so on a whim. Now, cease your trolling, vermin.
But the dubious information in the BWB should be trusted as proof.
No, it should be treated as evidence in the absence of anything to contradict it. How many times before that point sinks through that solid bone of yours?

 

Especially since you claimed that what I was saying was "irrelevant".
It was irrelevant. We cannot place Be'lal, so bringing him up is irrelevant, especially as I had already dealt with him being unplaceable.
But, the conclusion is simple - we don't know that Lanfear is the second strongest chosen & we don't know that Aginor is the second strongest man.
No, but the evidence we have currently says they are, and unless and until we have reason to ignore it, we should stick with those few placements we can actually make and not give in to wish-fulfilment.
What can we be sure about?
Your continued stupidity.
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My favorite 3 quotes right now:

 

Mr Ares

Re: One Power strength

« Reply #263 on: January 20, 2009, 04:11:36 AM »

A thought: male average strength sits slightly higher than female. Yet Aes Sedai average is skewed, because they have a minimum strength - Aes Sedai average could well be higher than male average strength, even if female average is lower. So there is good reason to expect plenty of men below AS average, especially when they have yet to reach their maximum.

 

Mr Ares

Re: One Power strength

« Reply #127 on: December 16, 2008, 06:34:50 AM »

I am more than half right. I am, in fact, entirely right. We have some guidelines, yes. But there is enough flexibility in them for Alivia to be weaker or stronger than Cyndane, or equal to her. She might even be as strong as Lanfear. We cannot say, with certainty. We can't even say most likely this way, or that way. There is not enough evidence to justify Cyndane as stronger, or Alivia as stronger.

 

Mr Ares

Re: Who is stronger?

« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2009, 12:58:41 AM »

Why don't you prove that it is. That strength alone, nothing else, is reason to be scared. Especially when we know that skill and knowledge can beat strength even in the face of large gaps in strength.

 

 

 

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You've stated the problem. You did. Read the two quotes I provided.
There's no problem there, Nightstrike, save that which exists solely in your diseased mind.

...

 

First of all, we WERE given something that I used to think was contradictory evidence.
No, we weren't.

I assure you, we WERE given something that I used to think was contradictory evidence.

 

But now, since I'm a follower of the Teachings of Ares
No, you're not. You claim you are, but you are still a follower of the teachings of Nightstrike: Talk shite, keep talking shite, keep talking shite.

:D Yes, I am a follower of these wonderful principles. I've heard you have strayed too far (=assumed too much) recently. The other abbotts told me.

 

The BWB is a dubious source
But it is a source, and it is evidence.
Not good enough, according to the teachings of Ares.
No, according to the teachings of Mr Ares (my name does still have a Mr, get it right, you twat) it is enough.

Yeah, since you're so pleasant, that's the least I could do.

 

Try shutting the hell up and reading something other than what you'd like people to have written.

What would I have liked people to have written?

 

What now, "until we have reason not to". We have no reason to believe that she is the second strongest chosen. BWB say "POSSIBLY".
That is a reason. Try reading what you wrote you self-contradictory, little halfwit. Do we have a reason to believe she isn't? No. Therefore, we can speculatively place her.

Speculatively? I've not seen that word before. "Possibly" is hardly reason to place anyone anywhere, in my opinion (of course). I surely would never even have speculated about anything on those grounds alone.

 

Faking something and hiding something is not the same thing (very few women could hide strength).
You base any of that on what evidence? It may be unknown now, but we have no reason to elieve it is difficult. And we don't know what form a man hiding his strength would take, if it was possible.

Exactly. That's the point. We don't know anything about it. If Asmo would have known about it, then Rand should know about it as well.

 

Asmo never told Rand about it.
Asmo was a piss-poor teacher, and he didn't tell Rand anything he didn't ask to be told for a long time, but we still don't know the bulk of what he taught Rand.

OK, so now you're inserting yet another unknown factor into the mix. That "if Asmo had known, it's likely that he could have missed telling Rand about it".

 

Aginor was insulted when Rand thought his Gateways were too small.
Are you ever going to get around to a quote? You quoting skills so far have been shown to be highly dubious, at best. More accurately, you just copy out something a bit like what the books say, and interpret it to mean whatever you want.

You haven't asked about that quote before, have you (must have missed it if that's so)? It's hardly worth mentioning, since it will not be good enough for proof of Ares standards. If you're interested, you can look it up yourself. I'll give you the info that is on Encyclopaedia WoT. Dismiss at will.

 

Dashiva accompanies Rand into Cairhien. He suggests making a gateway but Rand says they will have to wait too long. His smell goes through a wild array of emotions convincing Perrin that he is mad. (ACoS,Ch4)

 

 

So, are you telling me you're not just the boss of Occams' Razor, but that you're the boss of all evidence as well.
I'm telling you nothing of the sort. And your question lacks a question mark, and Occam's Razor should have the apostrophe before the s. If we have no reason to disregard something, it is idiotic to do so, hence your fondness for it.

Oooh, it lacks a question-mark. How terrible. Hardly worth being called a question, anyway.

 

You claim people lie to themselves
RJ claimed that. The authority on the series. Backed up by a quote from the man himself.
lie to each other
Because they do, we see it in the books.
may be misinformed
We see that time and again in the books.
You claim information could be wrong
Because we see time and again it could be, but I only disregard it with reeason. You do so on a whim. Now, cease your trolling, vermin.
But the dubious information in the BWB should be trusted as proof.
No, it should be treated as evidence in the absence of anything to contradict it. How many times before that point sinks through that solid bone of yours?

And the BWB states that the info could be wrong. Most likely, we will see several "facts" about the Forsaken wrong in it. So that's the same authority as the one you mentioned. Robert Jordan. Why don't YOU stop trolling?

 

We do not KNOW that Lanfear is the second strongest Forsaken, we do not KNOW that she is as strong as it is possible for a woman to be, we do not KNOW that Aginor is the second strongest man & we do not KNOW that LTT/Ishy are exactly the same strength. Yet you've claimed to know these things. Unforgivable, don't you think so?

 

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BWB (preface) explains that there will be be errors in the book. So we can't use a statement in the BWB as Ares standard proof. That's just not possible.

 

The BWB says (about Ishy):..."equalled by none but LTT himself". That could probably mean that LTT was slightly stronger. If LTT was, say, 1-3 percent stronger, then the others could well still have said about him "equalled by none but LTT himself". I would, in their shoes.

 

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Oh, and since some have argued about a symmetric distribution curve... It's kind of expected that there's a bigger difference in strength between number 1 and number 2, than there is between number 1 001 and 1 002. But I guess anything is possible. It's fantasy.

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not really.

 

equal means equal means equal.

 

LTT = Ishamael.  They are same strength.

It says "equalled by none but LTT himself". It doesn't say "exactly equal to LTT himself". Information in the BWB could be WRONG. We have no Ares standard evidence to place him at exactly the same strength as LTT.

 

We do have reason to expect a jump in strength between the second strongest and the strongest. The bell shaped distribution curve.

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Yes, I am a follower of these wonderful principles. I've heard you have strayed too far.
I never followed your principles, Nightstrike, so I couldn't stray from them.

 

Yeah, since you're so pleasant, that's the least I could do.
Never said I was pleasant, just that you were wrong. You earn pleasantness from me.

 

What would I have liked people to have written?
Whatever it is you think they say. More often than not, that has nothing to do with what they actually said.

 

"Possibly" is hardly reason to place anyone anywhere, in my opinion (of course).
Your opinion is worthless. We are given some reason to put her there, however little. No reason not to.

 

We don't know anything about it. If Asmo would have known about it, then Rand should know about it as well.
That doesn't follow. Asmo wasn't telling Rand everything he knew, he was telling everything Rand asked him to tell him. There was an enormous amount that Rand wouldn't know to ask about. After Rand ordered Asmo to tell him things even if he didn't ask. TFoH 32: "Why did you never mention this trick of making something invisible?"

"My Lord Drsgon, you never asked."

"From now on, you will tell me two things I don't ask about, every time we talk."

So Asmo wasn't telling Rand everything he knew for a long time, and even then we needn't accept that he told Rand everything he knew. And even if we did, what we don't know about what Asmo taught Rand outweighs what we do - the same with Moghedien and the girls. We are told they're making lots of discoveries, but we're not seeing them, not hearing anything about most of them. So just because Asmo knew, doesn't mean Rand does, and even if Rand does, it doesn't mean that we would.

 

OK, so now you're inserting yet another unknown factor into the mix. That "if Asmo had known, it's likely that he could have missed telling Rand about it".
That Asmo wasn't telling Rand things is a fact from the books. Making things invisible was something Rand never asked about until he saw Asmo do it. So why would he think to ask about that? That Asmo wasn't telling Rand things, and that we don't know the tenth part of what he did tell him, is fact.

 

It's hardly worth mentioning, since it will not be good enough for proof of Ares standards. If you're interested, you can look it up yourself. I'll give you the info that is on Encyclopaedia WoT. Dismiss at will.

 

Dashiva accompanies Rand into Cairhien. He suggests making a gateway but Rand says they will have to wait too long. His smell goes through a wild array of emotions convincing Perrin that he is mad. (ACoS,Ch4)
Why will it take too long? Because of size? No. From the encyclopaedia: "Dashiva suggests a gateway into city. Rand says no, they would have to wait till after dark to know place well enough." It would take too long to learn the ground. "And sit here past dark, until they know this place well enough to open one?" Dashiva even suggested sending one of the Asha'man - not that he do it himself. That quote does indeed fall a long way shy of my standards. It doesn't say what you claimed it did. Not even close.

 

And the BWB states that the info could be wrong.
That doesn't get any more relevant the more times you say it. It could be wrong, it could be right - unless you wish to argue that better than 50% of the book is wrong, then the chances are that it is right. Why should we disregard these placements? We might have only a little reason to place them as we do, but even less to dismiss them.

 

We do not KNOW that Lanfear is the second strongest Forsaken
But we strongly suspect it, given the available evidence.
we do not KNOW that she is as strong as it is possible for a woman to be
But we have no reason to believe she isn't.
we do not KNOW that Aginor is the second strongest man
But on the balance of probabilities, he probably is.
we do not KNOW that LTT/Ishy are exactly the same strength.
But it does seem very likely.

 

So we can't use a statement in the BWB as Ares standard proof.
Yet the BWB does meet my standards of evidence. So you are talking out of your arse.

 

"equalled by none but LTT himself".
Equalled, not bettered.
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What would I have liked people to have written?
Whatever it is you think they say. More often than not, that has nothing to do with what they actually said.

No, that's all you.

 

"Possibly" is hardly reason to place anyone anywhere, in my opinion (of course).
Your opinion is worthless. We are given some reason to put her there, however little. No reason not to.

Your opinion is equally worthless. Sometimes we should buy something as a fact (even though it could be wrong). Other times we should dismiss them. BECAUSE THEY COULD BE WRONG. Only on your say so. You're not consistent.

 

"From now on, you will tell me two things I don't ask about, every time we talk."

Exactly. Just the evidence I needed. Thank you ares. Very kind of you.

 

And the BWB states that the info could be wrong.
That doesn't get any more relevant the more times you say it. It could be wrong, it could be right - unless you wish to argue that better than 50% of the book is wrong, then the chances are that it is right. Why should we disregard these placements? We might have only a little reason to place them as we do, but even less to dismiss them.

Only on your say so, right?

 

We do not KNOW that Lanfear is the second strongest Forsaken
But we strongly suspect it, given the available evidence.
we do not KNOW that she is as strong as it is possible for a woman to be
But we have no reason to believe she isn't.
we do not KNOW that Aginor is the second strongest man
But on the balance of probabilities, he probably is.
we do not KNOW that LTT/Ishy are exactly the same strength.
But it does seem very likely.

Likely isn't good enough, remember? Anyway, several of the things you've argued for before aren't even likely. So, no evidence. ;)

 

"equalled by none but LTT himself".
Equalled, not bettered.
We don't know that.

 

 

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We all know that Lanfear/Cyndane is the strongest and I thought Moghedien is the weakest, since Nynaeve is roughly equal in the power with her. I guess Graendal, Mesaana and Semirhage are a toss up, yet I thought Graendal was the strongest of those three.

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No, that's all you.
No, you.

 

You're not consistent.
Yes, I am.

 

Just the evidence I needed.
Nothing to support you.

 

Only on your say so, right?
Wrong.

 

Likely isn't good enough, remember?
Yes, it is.
Anyway, several of the things you've argued for before aren't even likely.
Yes, they are.

 

We don't know that.
That it says equalled, not bettered? I think that is easily remedied. Just open your book to the relevant page.

 

We all know that Lanfear/Cyndane is the strongest and I thought Moghedien is the weakest, since Nynaeve is roughly equal in the power with her. I guess Graendal, Mesaana and Semirhage are a toss up, yet I thought Graendal was the strongest of those three.
We know Lanfear is the strongest woman, and we know Cyndane is stronger than Graendal or Moghedien, but I'm not sure if we have anything to place her against Semi and Mesaana. Moghedien equalling Nynaeve is no reason to dismiss her strength. We cannot place any of the others in relation to one another. Graendal says it is rare even for a man to be stronger than her, let alone a woman, but that doesn't mean that the others aren't - the Chosen are hardly statistically representative.
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  • 2 weeks later...

the only thing we can be completly sure of is,

Ishy is the strongest of the FS equal or close to LTT

lanfear was the stongest of the female Fs

Cyndane is stronger then graendal who is stronger then moghedian

semirhage and mesaana are close in strength

in the book "the world of robert jordan the wheel of time" it's stated that aginor is "the second most powerful man". this doesn't say with the OP but knowing aginors personality we can rule out political power.

demandred is almost as strong as LTT

when rand defeated asmodean he used an angreal shaped as a fat man as help, we are not told if rand gets stronger after that just more experinced and more knowledge of the OP

we also know that asmodean was a musican before joining the DO, since music doesn't seem to be something to favoured by the DO asmodean must be considerbly strong to be on the DO:s high counsil, not just belove say logain or taim

 

so it would go:

Male,

1, ishy

2, aginor

3-8 unknown order but most likly with

 

female,

1, lanfear

2 or 4 Graendal

2-3 or 3-4 or 4-5, Mesaana and semirhage

3 or 5, moghedian

 

the females are based on the idea that mesaana and semirhage are close to equal and has to be placed next to each other.

 

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We don't know that.
That it says equalled, not bettered? I think that is easily remedied. Just open your book to the relevant page.

BWB says:

Believed to be the most powerful of the Chosen in the use of the One Power, he was equaled by none but Lews Therin Telamon himself.

So, ares thinks the writer only BELIEVED him to be the most powerful Chosen, but she KNEW that he was EXACTLY EQUAL to LTT himself. Very interesting. Who did she think could possibly be stronger than LTT?

 

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Cyndane is stronger then graendal who is stronger then moghedian
Really? Cyndane is stronger than both Moghedien and Graendal, that is as much as I recall.

 

Nightstrike, I see you still have nothing worthwhile to add.

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what i ment was cyndane is stronger then graendal and graendal is stronger then moghedian.
I know what you meant. But I don't recall any evidence to support it. When brought up earlier, Nightstrike failed to provide any evidence to support it, despite my asking him. I don't recall us being able to place Moghedien in relation to Graendal. A quote would be helpful, if you'd be so kind.
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what i ment was cyndane is stronger then graendal and graendal is stronger then moghedian.
I know what you meant. But I don't recall any evidence to support it. When brought up earlier, Nightstrike failed to provide any evidence to support it, despite my asking him. I don't recall us being able to place Moghedien in relation to Graendal. A quote would be helpful, if you'd be so kind.

That's because NOTHING can be proven with ares' standards of how to prove things. I really mean NOTHING. Not even the claims that ares himself has made. None of what he has said before can be proven. That's what the situation is like right now.

 

So, if anyone has an idea about anything, then please don't follow ares' principles. That will only leave you to dead ends in every direction.

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