Hollywood 1940's Mafia! Game Over!

[Verbal32]

The power roles are the only advantage the innocents have! Losing one on day one IS NOT OKAY! This only benefits the mafia, which you already know.

 

Actually, numbers is the advantage that the innocents have.  Power roles are helpful, but not necessary.  Using your own math, Wes, it appears you are saying there are possibly both 3 mafia and 3 power roles.  Actual numbers might vary, but the point I took from your post is that the innocents have power roles likely equaling the number of bad guys.  I'm ok with that.

 

But as there are other "roleless" innocents, there are no "roleless" mafia.  Therefore, the advantage of numbers is more beneficial to the innocents in the event of a random lynch.  The mafia have more to lose.  That is just simple logic....twist it how you will, but the basis remains the same.

 

You are also giving me the impression that this discussion is between a No Lynch and a Random Lynch.  While partially true, don't forget that the first option is a majority lynch on somebody.  With 28-ish hours left, that is PLENTY of time to keep discussing and come to a majority conclusion.  I'm all ears.  ;)

[DPR]

 

Hence my vote...

 

And your logic is so twisted, it could hide behind a corkscrew. heh-I've been dying to use that one!

[DPR]

 

Oh yeah, will someone tell Pandy its his turn now?

[Verbal32]

And your logic is so twisted, it could hide behind a corkscrew. heh-I've been dying to use that one!

 

Yeah, well I'm rubber and you're glue.  :P

 

Actually, I was wondering if you were going to make a comment on the logic.  But at least it's not tied into knots like your logic.  Ha!  Take that!

[DPR]

 

That would be my "let's not kill people for no reason" logic?  Which is entertaining, since you just shot down your own argument.

 

You can't really support the " a random kill is preferable to a no lynch." argument by later saying that "numbers of players are the innocent's advantage."  But, that's just me and my knot twisted logic talking...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Verbal32]

You can't really support the " a random kill is preferable to a no lynch." argument by later saying that "numbers of players are the innocent's advantage."  But, that's just me and my knot twisted logic talking...

 

Sure I can.  *looks back*  In fact, I did just that.  A No Lynch just gives the mafia a free kill.  A definite innocent is then dead.  With a random lynch, at least there is the possibility that a mafia dies instead.  That is also where the numbers advantage comes into play - 3 mafia versus say, 9 innocents.  1 mafia dead by random lynch, 9-2 in favor of innocents.  1 innocent dead by random lynch, 8-2 in favor of innocents.....but at least there was a chance that a mafia dies.  Unlike your scenario, where an innocent ALWAYS dies.

 

Sooooo......who's got the twisted logic again?  ;)

[DPR]

 

What?!?

 

Voting No Lynch would avoid a random mod kill, which statisically would probably be an innocent. It would insure that nobody dies. You know this.

 

The mafia gets a kill no matter what. One per night, no matter the vote. You know this.

 

If we vote No Lynch - we start day 2 with only 1 dead, leaving 14 players.

 

If we allow a random mod-kill, we start day 2 with 2 dead, leaving 13 players.

 

The entire time, I've said that a mjority vote is best because it would give us information. But if we can't get enough votes due to player inactivity, a No Lynch vote would at least preserve a life. That's why I voted for Pandy, but will hold out to see id I need to switch.

 

Sooooo...that means that you've got the twisted logic. Again.  ;)

 

Also, posting numbers like 3 vs. 9 is just misleading. Why not use just the numbers that we are playing with?  Like I've been doing the whole time...

 

[Verbal32]

Also, posting numbers like 3 vs. 9 is just misleading. Why not use just the numbers that we are playing with?  Like I've been doing the whole time...

 

Cause I totally forgot in the middle of my post and was too lazy to go back and check?  Does that work?  ;D

 

If we vote No Lynch - we start day 2 with only 1 dead, leaving 14 players.

 

If we allow a random mod-kill, we start day 2 with 2 dead, leaving 13 players.

 

No Lynch = start Day 2 with 1 innocent dead, no questions.

 

Random Lynch = start Day 2 with 2 players dead, 1 of which could possibly be a mafia.

 

The innocents will gladly trade 1-for-1 with the mafia.  And I would be willing to take the chance that 2 innocents are dead on Day 2, if the alternative is that there is 1 innocent and 1 mafia dead.  That is why there are many more innocents than mafia, we can afford to take chances like that early in the game.  If this was endgame, I would not be saying these things.  But this is Day 1.

 

The pirate doth protest too much, methinks.  ;)

[DPR]

 

Okay, you just need to stop.

 

All you are doing at this point is running up the posts which will just discourage people form reading and potentially hide all of the ridiculous things you've said.

[cosmicpanda]

Rule of scumhunting: scum like to get distracted and talk about innocuous things like game theory and setup discussion.

 

*looks at Wes*

[Verbal32]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this.  Neither of us is going to budge, and we both apparently think the other is nuts for backing their stance.  Fair enough.  I'd like to see what others have to say.

 

 

 

But this?

 

All you are doing at this point is running up the posts which will just discourage people form reading and potentially hide all of the ridiculous things you've said.

 

Pot, meet kettle.

[Talya]

Just to add my bit.

 

A random lynch is not a good idea if it can be avoided. Wes is right, there are other roles in the innocents that are important. With a lynch, if someone has a role they can claim before they are nearly lynched, of course doesn't stop the fake claims, but it would give us information. A Random Lynch wouldn't give us much at all and neither would a no lynch.

 

The healer and finder are two important roles, if we lose one, it will hinder the innocents thoughout the rest of the game. Numbers are all good and well, but with no finder or healer, it could make the difference between winning and losing.

[Verbal32]

For the record, I'm not actually advocating a random lynch.  I just think that a No Lynch is the worst option available.  That is all.

[mnwhiterose]

So - you are saying that you would take the chance of a random modkill, not really caring if the mod kills an innocent or a mafia, because the innocents will always have the numbers, at least in this round?  What if that modkill is your finder or healer or any number potentially useful roles an innocent might have.  But, since the innocents don't know who each other are, how can you be sure that they will figure it out and band their numbers together to get rid of the mafia? You can't if you lose your finder.

 

Personally, I'd rather keep the numbers of the innocents as high as possible and have evidence that a person is a mafia before I decide to lynch them on day one.  So far, I have nothing concrete to point in any direction.

[cosmicpanda]

what counts as concrete?

 

If you're expecting a finder's result on day one, that's highly unlikely.

[mnwhiterose]

I realize that.  Which is why I don't like to lynch on day one - too chaotic for my tastes.  Of course, I'm still new at this game, so I'm hoping to get better and maybe my tastes will change as I play more.

 

In fact, short of a confession from a mafia member (which I know will not happen), I'm hoping something will jump out at me.  And while I know I shouldn't be suspicious of people who haven't posted yet (since, like me, I'm sure they have lives outside of DM), I can't help but think that they are lurking and waiting for us innocents to devour each other.

[Dark Justice]

I am terribly sorry I have not been able to get online before now, but work was crazy.. (wich is a good thing)..

 

Im gonna go through it again, and see where I stand..

[Verbal32]

So - you are saying that you would take the chance of a random modkill, not really caring if the mod kills an innocent or a mafia, because the innocents will always have the numbers, at least in this round? 

 

That is putting words in my mouth.  Of course I care if an innocent is hit - I want a mafia killed.  That is also simplifying the argument.  It is mostly a theoretical argument that we are having.  I hate No Lynches, to the point that I would rather have a random modkill than a No Lynch.  Call me a corkscrew ( :P to Wes) or agree with me, it doesn't matter.  That is my stance and I won't change it.  I'll drop that particular piece of the argument, as it no longer pertains to this game.

 

My "official" stance is that we should have a majority on a player, thereby having a town-directed lynch.  That is the best scenario for Day 1.

[Hybrid]

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote mcs

[/glow]

There's more chance of a random kill hitting mafia than the finder/healer.

 

The random kill narrows down the list of suspects for the rest of the game.

 

I would rather have neither, and lynch you instead.  :D

 

I don't like the logic of the first sentence at all.  The chance of a random kill hitting a mafia is only slightly greater than the chance of it hitting the finder/healer.  And frankly, I don't want any sort of chance of the finder or healer dying accidentally, period.

 

I understand the second sentence, but I think it applies equally well to a no lynch.  If we vote no lynch when there is a stalemate, the list of suspects will still be narrowed down by one, due to a possible mafia kill the next night.  And we'll still have voting information from the previous day.  If we allow there to be a random kill, everything will be the same except that two people will die, not one.  I prefer the first scenario, since it at least gives us little to no chance of losing a power role and the death toll is lower. 

 

I also would rather have neither scenario, so, [glow=red,2,300]vote cosmicpanda[/glow].

[Blig Blog]

Wow...I can't wait for school to be over with for the summer, only 3 days left. I'd like to be on more so I don't have to read 3 pages of this thread at once, lol.

 

I don't really have anything CONCRETE against anyone as of right now...mainly because things are just getting started...ON DAY ONE!

 

The only thing that I do have is a few suspicions, such as: Wes, if you are SO against No Lynch's then why did you even bring it up? I know you kept saying that "we need to lay out our options", or something of the sort, so that we can lay some groundwork for a case against someone but...I don't know, that just sticks out to me a bit. I'm just puttin' that out there, plus what I gathered from the little Spat from Verbal and Wes was that Verbal was getting a bit nervous and trying to talk himself out of something...

 

Oh and this stuck out to me as well:

I can't help but think that they are lurking and waiting for [glow=green,2,300]us[/glow] innocents to devour each other.

 

I remember the few times I played with Vemmy that he said "us innocents" a few times...when he was actually mafia. This probably doesn't mean anything but something in my head went like "hmm..." when I read "us innocents".

 

I'm just puttin' my thoughts out there, and as it being day one and I really don't have anything...i'm going to hold onto my vote.

[cosmicpanda]

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote mcs

[/glow]

There's more chance of a random kill hitting mafia than the finder/healer.

 

The random kill narrows down the list of suspects for the rest of the game.

 

I would rather have neither, and lynch you instead.  :D

 

I don't like the logic of the first sentence at all.  The chance of a random kill hitting a mafia is only slightly greater than the chance of it hitting the finder/healer.  And frankly, I don't want any sort of chance of the finder or healer dying accidentally, period.

 

I understand the second sentence, but I think it applies equally well to a no lynch.  If we vote no lynch when there is a stalemate, the list of suspects will still be narrowed down by one, due to a possible mafia kill the next night.  And we'll still have voting information from the previous day.  If we allow there to be a random kill, everything will be the same except that two people will die, not one.  I prefer the first scenario, since it at least gives us little to no chance of losing a power role and the death toll is lower. 

 

I also would rather have neither scenario, so, [glow=red,2,300]vote cosmicpanda[/glow].

 

Did you not read my last sentence!?

[Verbal32]

The only thing that I do have is a few suspicions, such as: Wes, if you are SO against No Lynch's then why did you even bring it up? I know you kept saying that "we need to lay out our options", or something of the sort, so that we can lay some groundwork for a case against someone but...I don't know, that just sticks out to me a bit. I'm just puttin' that out there, plus what I gathered from the little Spat from Verbal and Wes was that Verbal was getting a bit nervous and trying to talk himself out of something...

 

First Bold:  Actually, Wes was for the no lynch, and against the random lynch.

 

Second Bold:  Nervous?  No.  I was having a theoretical argument with Wes.  I actually think I used reasonable logic, but meh.  If I was talking myself out of something, I wouldn't still be voting for him.  ;)

[mnwhiterose]

I remember the few times I played with Vemmy that he said "us innocents" a few times...when he was actually mafia. This probably doesn't mean anything but something in my head went like "hmm..." when I read "us innocents".

 

One thing wrong with this statement - I'm not Vemy.  No offense to Vemy, but we have different playing styles. If I say "us innocents", I mean "us innocents".

[Leelou]

Vote Count (to the best of my knowledge):

 

cosmicpanda (5): CUBAREY, Talya, mcs0083, Wes, Hybrid

 

Wes (2): cosmicpanda, Verbal

 

mnwhiterose (1): Jeran

 

NO LYNCH (1): mnwhiterose

 

Jeran (1): Naeann

 

 

Not voting:

Sarayne, Nynaeve, Dark Justice, Liathiana, Blig Blog

 

Everyone has now checked in.

 

8 votes for a majority. Deadline is 5:30 pm EST approx. 24 hours from now.

[DPR]

 

Blig posted this:

 

The only thing that I do have is a few suspicions, such as: Wes, if you are SO against No Lynch's then why did you even bring it up? I know you kept saying that "we need to lay out our options", or something of the sort, so that we can lay some groundwork for a case against someone but...I don't know, that just sticks out to me a bit.

 

I'd like to propose that we all answer each others questions - it shouldmake things a lot more clear and offer much more information for everybody to judge on.

 

Blig, I am against a No Lynch vote in general.

 

A lot of players choose not to vote on day 1, or vote No Lynch because they don't have any information yet and an innocent almost always gets picked. I always vote on day 1 because it is the only way to get people to talk! Otherwise you just burn a day. I think it is very common to just throw a vote out there to start with and then change it depending on people's reactions.

 

In this game, we have a deadline of 72 hour days and a random kill if a majority vote is not reached. So I tried to do two thigs by bringing up the No Lynch vote. First, you know that somebody will bring it up, so its best to get mod clarification when you still have 48 hrs to debate it and avoid a last minute panic - what if Leelou chose not to allow it? I've seen it done. So go ahead, put it on the table and deal with it. The second reason is that in this circumstance, it is always better to play it safe. Why take a chance on a power role getting randomly killed when you can avoid it?

 

And just to be clear, keeping innocents alive never, ever helps the mafia. the only thing we give up is the potential gain of information. We don't lose anything -

 

However, now that folks are voting, we are getting the information we need and now we actually know a bit about Verbal, Pandy, myself, you, mn, Hybrid, Talya, etc. so the game is working the way that it should.

 

Let me know if there is anything I need to explain better.

 

I'll leave with one observation - it has been my experience that 1st day majorities very rarely end up in a mafia lynch. It is usually the innocents tearing each other to pieces, so no matter what happens, I'm sure that we have some lurkers who will bear close review tomorrow. The best thing for the innocents is for everybody to speak up and vote.

 

There