The Shadow's Poor Tactics

[Builder]

Yeah and him taking Asmo as a "guest" at his court opened the possibility for him to actually learn much about Saidin and all of that. He really had some luck there, and on many other occasions.

[Muad Cheade]

lol thats an interesting quote that fits with what you say about moridin. I am talking about the quote at the bottom of the message

 

Haha. I just noticed that. Well, as Bashere notes, people are willing to follow a leader who's insane as long as he wins.

 

 

I agree somewhat, the Shadow did indeed seem to be winning but recently their lead has been getting rapidly smaller. Rand and his entourage are becoming too organized for the Shadow to stand against, divided by their own motives as they are. I really hope we see the Forsaken work together in the next book/trilogy/whatever. And if they do it wants to be good.

 

Yeah. I agree. I think it's because they're not only growing into their roles and also as a result of a Pattern. As Tarmon Gai'don nears, I believe we'll see the dark One's powers growing and that will be disastrous.

 

Yeah and him taking Asmo as a "guest" at his court opened the possibility for him to actually learn much about Saidin and all of that. He really had some luck there, and on many other occasions.

 

If Asmodean had not been Rand's "tutor," things would not have been as "easy" as they were.

[zanotam]

The shadow IS losing, if we take the shadow to refer to the DO's forces. Of course, you've got a few side games going that aren't necessarily the shadow but obviously dangerous and possibly very well done. You've got Fain, there are the slip ups Taim has made that reveal him to be something....more, and Ishmael/Moridin/Ba'alzamon appears to be playing a VERY, VERY deep game and he's playing it whether the shadow is there or not.

 

I disagree. The Shadow is clearly winning as evidenced by Min's viewing of the fireflies.

 

The Forsaken were giving the mission to spread chaos. Makes sense. How can the Dragon reborn unite a chaotic world. Once again look a Sammael and the Shaido. The Shaido were defeated at Dumai's Well, yet with a few gateways,  he turned them into the bane of the Southeastern continent.

 

Also, even incidental things they do have caused huge amounts of chaos. Ba'alzamon confronting Rand at Falme caused him to reveal himself early. When that happened we all know how that affect Masema and look what the new Masema (and other Dragonsworn) did all over the continent. even Fain going rogue caused more trouble for Rand (nearly killed him) than when he was a simple Darkfriend.

 

I think Moridin is a little too insane to accurately know the game he's playing. It's weird: He's so mad that he's aware he's mad, but I digress.

 

Um, to start with, you might want to reread EotW, because the more people that get pulled into Rand's grand adventure, the more people are needed to create the 'fireflies'. Min, Rand, Nynaeve, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Elayne,  Moiraine, and no doubt a few more have all been brought into the struggle against the shadow, and so while individually they may have increasing trouble resisting, together is how they are supposed to fight Tarmon Gai'din.

Ba'alzamon=Moridin=Ishamael, and if you, ya know, actually payed attention to TGH you might have noticed in the prologue that Ba'alzamon isn't spreading chaos, he manipulates events exactly how he wants them, all the key events of that book (and if I remember right, some in other books) are briefly shown to be all part of HIS plan, long before the DO said "Let the Lord of Chaos rule"

[Muad Cheade]

The shadow IS losing, if we take the shadow to refer to the DO's forces. Of course, you've got a few side games going that aren't necessarily the shadow but obviously dangerous and possibly very well done. You've got Fain, there are the slip ups Taim has made that reveal him to be something....more, and Ishmael/Moridin/Ba'alzamon appears to be playing a VERY, VERY deep game and he's playing it whether the shadow is there or not.

 

I disagree. The Shadow is clearly winning as evidenced by Min's viewing of the fireflies.

 

The Forsaken were giving the mission to spread chaos. Makes sense. How can the Dragon reborn unite a chaotic world. Once again look a Sammael and the Shaido. The Shaido were defeated at Dumai's Well, yet with a few gateways,  he turned them into the bane of the Southeastern continent.

 

Also, even incidental things they do have caused huge amounts of chaos. Ba'alzamon confronting Rand at Falme caused him to reveal himself early. When that happened we all know how that affect Masema and look what the new Masema (and other Dragonsworn) did all over the continent. even Fain going rogue caused more trouble for Rand (nearly killed him) than when he was a simple Darkfriend.

 

I think Moridin is a little too insane to accurately know the game he's playing. It's weird: He's so mad that he's aware he's mad, but I digress.

 

Um, to start with, you might want to reread EotW, because the more people that get pulled into Rand's grand adventure, the more people are needed to create the 'fireflies'. Min, Rand, Nynaeve, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Elayne,  Moiraine, and no doubt a few more have all been brought into the struggle against the shadow, and so while individually they may have increasing trouble resisting, together is how they are supposed to fight Tarmon Gai'din.

Ba'alzamon=Moridin=Ishamael, and if you, ya know, actually payed attention to TGH you might have noticed in the prologue that Ba'alzamon isn't spreading chaos, he manipulates events exactly how he wants them, all the key events of that book (and if I remember right, some in other books) are briefly shown to be all part of HIS plan, long before the DO said "Let the Lord of Chaos rule"

 

Thanks for your concern but I have read every book in the series. You're wrong. Yes. The point of Min's vision is to show that the Light must fight against the Shadow together. However, Robert Jordan said it only means they have a better chance of winning. Get it? The Shadow still has the advantage. Like I said in all my previous posts.

 

Once again, if you read what I wrote, I said that Rand revealed himself early due to the fight with Ishamael at Falme. That's what caused the massive rebellions of Dragonsworn. Remember how the Shienarans thought that since Rand was the Dragon reborn all bonds were broken (especially those to Lord Agelmar? Then remember how Masema then became the Prophet and terrorized Altara and Gheldean? I'm sure Ishamael didn't plan for Masema to turn crazy. I doubt he even knew who he was. It was incidental like I said, yet it also caused chaos.

 

And by the way, the Dark One has been commanding his minions to spread chaos since he was partly released in the Age of Legends.

 

Get it?

[Durinax]

I think masema might be a darkfriend, cause why else would he get aram to try and kill Perrin, especially since perrin is a close friend withe the "lord dragon"

[water_seeker]

He's insane.

[Durinax]

but even insane if you see someone as godly, would you strike at their rigth hand man so to speak?

[water_seeker]

If you think that right hand man has "fallen away" from what you believe your "god" stands for.  If Masema thinks Perrin has betrayed the DR in any way, he see's it as his duty to punish him for it.

 

And if Masema lives to see Rand and finds out Rand doesn't see things the same way Masema see's them, he (being insane) may feel it's his duty to do something about that as well.

[Muad Cheade]

If you think that right hand man has "fallen away" from what you believe your "god" stands for.  If Masema thinks Perrin has betrayed the DR in any way, he see's it as his duty to punish him for it.

 

And if Masema lives to see Rand and finds out Rand doesn't see things the same way Masema see's them, he (being insane) may feel it's his duty to do something about that as well.

 

Yep. If Masema was willing to kill thousands who he felt were not loyal to the Lord Dragon, he definitely would be willing to kill Perrin.

 

I don't think Masema would try to kill Rand if Rand rebuked him for what he did. I think the whole reason for sending Perrin was to bring Masema to Rand in order for rand to get him to stop the bloodshed.

[Durinax]

I dont think you can use the " If Masema was willing to kill thousands who he felt were not loyal to the Lord Dragon, he definitely would be willing to kill Perrin." defence after all none of those he killed where connected to rand in any way.

 

But I cannot think of any better way to make chaos and hatred towards the dragon reborn other than what Masema did. . .

[Builder]

Do you guys think Rand will be able to make Masema stop killing people?

[Neemo]

maybe Masema is Demandred lol

[Builder]

No Masema is Pevin, who instead of dying fled to Ghealdan to become the Prophet. Haven't you read the books Neemo?  :P

[Neemo]

No Masema is Pevin, who instead of dying fled to Ghealdan to become the Prophet. Haven't you read the books Neemo?  :P

 

my memory is like a sieve but i've read the books a few times...currently i'm on book 4...again much to the laughter of my freinds haha

 

I should prolly read a bunch of these bigger threads cuz i'm scared to post, you guys will rip me apart by somethign that has been discussed and dismissed years ago :)

[Majsju]

Do you guys think Rand will be able to make Masema stop killing people?

 

No, Perrin will take care of that, by hanging Masema from the nearest tree.

[Builder]

*thumbs up*