Nicola's CoT Foretelling/Foretellings about Rand

[Roxinos]

Thom the most well-endowed? I doubt it. If he were that grand, Morgase would have never wanted him dead.

 

Of course...he probably is pretty well-hung. I mean, come on. He did bag a Queen.

 

Though, the Demandred/Rand thing makes perfect sense.

[a5m]

Except the Cleansing of Saidin was not impossible.  Because Rand did it.

 

a5m is not suggesting that it was. a5m has acknowledged that the "impossibility" was just Tiana's perception on Nicola's Foretelling. As such, he/she acknowledges that whatever those nine things are, they are entirely possible. He/she's just speculating that one of the things that Nicola Foretold was that Rand would cleanse the taint.

 

Which you've already agreed is a possibility.

 

That's part of the fantasy, isn't it? What we know is that either nine specific items were mentioned or that she simply said 9 impossible things are to be done by the Dragon Reborn. We also know that they won't be impossible for Rand and that they probably won't be repeated again until the next turning of the wheel, assuming that the last battle is not...

 

Most forums that I usually participate in don't expect everyone to agree or for everyone to participate. To slam us for trying to talk about this simply because "We don't know exactly what Nicola said" and you don't want to participate simply drives the uninitiated away from the forum. If that is your goal, for only threads you agree with to be created and for you to be the primary participant in the threads, I'll drift off to watching again and shaking my head when I don't agree rather than writing anything. I don't think my speculation is pointless since it won't matter to me at all once the final books are out. I'm willing to speculate as to what might be in those books at this time. Once they are out, all I can talk about is whether I'm disappointed in the way this plot finished or that one finished.

 

Again, I think that what ever she said is being dismissed because the AS are being their usual think headed selves.

[Roxinos]

Again, I think that what ever she said is being dismissed because the AS are being their usual think headed selves.

 

Possible.

 

And I repeat: "...if we're going to be needlessly speculative on something we cannot possibly fathom reasonably, we might as well be needlessly speculative on the size of the male characters' genitalia. We have as much information on that, after all, as we do on what those "nine impossible things" are."

 

Reasonably is the keyword there. Speculate all you want. But speculation, even on-topic speculation, is just as silly as Lord Nik's recently locked joke thread...or any other joke thread on this board. Speculating without any basis is just plain silly.

[a5m]

And I repeat: "...if we're going to be needlessly speculative on something we cannot possibly fathom reasonably, we might as well be needlessly speculative on the size of the male characters' genitalia. We have as much information on that, after all, as we do on what those "nine impossible things" are."

 

Reasonably is the keyword there. Speculate all you want. But speculation, even on-topic speculation, is just as silly as Lord Nik's recently locked joke thread...or any other joke thread on this board. Speculating without any basis is just plain silly.

If you want to speculate on genitalia, start your own thread. However we do have the very glanced over line in the book that being asked about. If you don't think it is important to the plots you are interested in, don't participate. I'm pretty sure we don't have enough information yet about most of the nine but I still see no reason we can't try.

 

I know where you stand on any of our ideas as well as RAW. That leaves those that might want to talk about this. And, if no one does, this thread drifts into oblivion quietly. Not all threads have to be locked for them to be quiet.

[Roxinos]

I never said anything about its relevance to the plot or its basis in the books. I compared it to Lord Nik's joke thread which is very relevant to the plot and has more basis in the books than the one line you're willing to speculate on. And yet it gets locked for being obviously a joke.

 

This is also a joke. You cannot possibly -- literally, it's impossible -- to reasonably speculate on what the nine "impossible" things that Rand will do are, if he is actually going to do nine things, possible or otherwise. So it's a joke. Pointless speculation is just stupid. Go ahead, speculate all you want. But you might as well be speculating on the size of the male characters' genitalia for all it will avail you. Either way, in the end of the discussion, you'll come away with nothing but what you went in.

[Nightstrike]

What we know is that either nine specific items were mentioned or that she simply said 9 impossible things are to be done by the Dragon Reborn.

 

 

We.  Do.  Not.  Know.  That.  Nicola.  Said.  Anything.  Of.  The.  Kind.

He didn't say so. Speculation can be fun. I know you've done it yourself. You've already made your point on the matter of Nicola known. Others have to. Let those that want to speculate do so. No need to be less than polite about the whole thing. If noone posts in this thread, then it will soon be forgotten. Either you post/speculate or you don't (after initially making clear why you don't want to speculate). I wouldn't normally have posted in this thread myself, but now I felt the need to do so anyway. I do not want to speculate on this matter.

 

[Roxinos]

I can gripe about people being stupid all I want. So can RAW, so can you, so can anyone, really.

[Roxinos]

*hits RAW with the moral stick*

 

Well, I admit I'm being an ass about it.

 

I've been too nice in other threads about other topics.

[Nightstrike]

Yes he did.  I QUOTED IT.  And you quoted me quoting it!  Seriously dude.  Read.

Yeah, sorry. I only read until "..., or". I stand by the rest of what I said.

 

Speculation, at least as I try to do it, in this context, is extrapolating from known information.

Me too. But we don't have to post in every single thread that we do not like.

 

Let those that want to speculate do so.

 

I am not in any way preventing them from doing so.  I'm simply responding when they do.

Why? You don't even have to read anything in this thread.

 

No need to be less than polite about the whole thing.

 

In what way have I been "impolite"?  I'm permitted to disagree.  Am I swearing at them?  As some people in this conversation are known to do?

Given the circumstances (others being impolite), some of my harsh words might have an explanation.

 

What you're doing there is called "hypocrisy" Nightstrike.

No, I try to be nice.

 

I wouldn't normally have posted in this thread myself, but now I felt the need to do so anyway.

 

Because you're chasing me around the boards with a moralizing stick.  Which is sad.

No, I was not chasing you. You just happen to write in a lot of threads. I look around, but I probably don't read all threads. And I was definitely not looking for threads where you in particular had posted.

 

 

[a5m]

I can gripe about people being stupid all I want. So can RAW, so can you, so can anyone, really.

 

Extrapolating from things that we don't know is called "making stuff up".

I am not in any way preventing them from doing so.  I'm simply responding when they do.

In what way have I been "impolite"?

 

Well, I admit I'm being an ass about it.

I've been too nice in other threads about other topics.

 

In a polite world, coming into a conversation simply to tell the people in it that they are talking about "silly" things is considered rude. I also don't see a need to quote each line individually and give an opinion on it. Doing that makes the threads VERY hard to read.

 

Roxinos, I would not have gone so far as to call it being an ass but I can agree with you in this context.

 

At this point, both of you have stated your opinions. Neither of you think the line from Tiana is worth thinking about. Thank you so much for your opinion.

 

I am so looking forward to your reply, which I know you will both make.

(If you can't tell I'm being sarcastic here, I'll tell you I am. Now reread it again with feeling. Oh yea, now I know you'll reply.)

[Roxinos]

I was going to reply anyway.

 

Remember, I'm an ass.

 

We're not in a polite world. The Internet is not a polite place.

 

And frankly, DM has the most lax mods on the whole of the Internet.

[a5m]

Remember, I'm an ass. We're not in a polite world. The Internet is not a polite place.

And frankly, DM has the most lax mods on the whole of the Internet.

 

Which I guess is the only reason you are allowed to participate here.

[Roxinos]

I suggest you go and read some of my other posts outside of this thread before you start making assumptions on my character in general. :D

 

Please don't turn this into a passive aggressive fight. I'm just having fun here, and the fun dies a bit when people start getting passive aggressively angry on me.

 

I'm an ass, yes. Do I want to start a fight? No. Do I expect me asking you not to be passive aggressive or aggressive in general to actually work? No.

[Gentled Ben]

Remember, I'm an ass. We're not in a polite world. The Internet is not a polite place.

And frankly, DM has the most lax mods on the whole of the Internet.

 

Which I guess is the only reason you are allowed to participate here.

Now who's being rude?

[Roxinos]

I also don't see a need to quote each line individually and give an opinion on it. Doing that makes the threads VERY hard to read.

 

Oh man, I totally missed this part when I first read your post. I would have jumped at that.

 

Oh really? Have you ever participated in a really long argument involving several points and counter-points? Not only does quoting and responding to posts point-by-point make the posts easier to read in an argument, it makes the argument easier to flesh out. One can easily keep track of their thoughts when they're only responding to one point at a time rather than trying to get everything down in one post.

 

It also helps for understanding. Quoting point-by-point prevents misunderstandings as to what each person is responding to and who each person is responding to in each point of theirs.

 

I dare you to try to participate in an argument without quoting point-by-point. I dare you. You'll get torn to shreds.

[mb]

-Heal death or at least put life into a dead body

-Clean the Ways maybe with getting rid of Machin Shin

-Do actual flying with the One Power

-Convert darkfriends and/or Forsaken to the Light

-Cleanse other Taint-made things

Some other guesses about what Nicola might have said:

-Walk around invisible

-Channel through a stedding

 

[Dark Justice]

-Heal death or at least put life into a dead body

-Clean the Ways maybe with getting rid of Machin Shin

-Do actual flying with the One Power

-Convert darkfriends and/or Forsaken to the Light

-Cleanse other Taint-made things

Some other guesses about what Nicola might have said:

-Walk around invisible

-Channel through a stedding

 

 

Well.. good it is guesswork. cause if not, Rand really has to do something impossible. Unless he lays his hand on some terangreal with a well for males (I cant really see he has time for that at the moment...) he can not channel in a dtedding. As for the invisible part? who cares?

[Roxinos]

But...channeling through a stedding is impossible.

[Dark Justice]

Bah. I read IN, not through...  vI did not think anyone mb thought a stedding was a sangreal/angreal....

[Roxinos]

Well.... To be fair, channeling in a stedding is also impossible.

[Dark Justice]

yeah. without a well.. But through it would be "overly tripple absolutely bending and changing reality as you go along", kind of thing...

[seasnake]

It seems clear that Nicola did predict the Dragon Reborn will do nine things.  It also seems clear that the other Aes Sedai determined these things are impossible, therefore Nicola is not havig a real foretelling but she is trying to make it up.

 

Aes Sedai can't lie, so they say "Nine impossible things" the qualitive assessment, impossible, can be a matter of opinion.  The quantitative fact that she said nine different things the DR would not seem to be up for debate.  The fact that it is impossible may be something to do with custom and habit as much as physics.  They could see the notion of an Amyrlin answering to the Dragon Reborn as "impossible" because the Amyrlin is, to them, THE ruler of the world.

 

But now as for guessing what nine things Nicola may have said that the Aes Sedai considered "impossible" we have some basis. We can look to several things to guide our thinking as to what these nine things might entail. 

 

We can look at extraordinary events that have already happened in the books that occurred after Nicola's foretelling and guess if an average Aes Sedai would conclude it was "impossible." The cleansing of Saidin would be one.

 

We can look at things that are prophesied to happen, based on the Karatheon cycles, Min's visons or some other thing and judge if such an event would be considered impossible.  His dying and living again is from such a cycle and would qualify.

 

We can look at past blanket statements of "impossibility" such as Moiraine's "you can't heal death" and determine if that was introduced to be referred to later. Maybe you find that statement significant.

 

We can look at emerging plot points or trends and if they seem reasonably "impossible" to Aes Sedai, extrapolate that they might be something that will happen.  Here, we can look at a few things, like Rand getting the Seanchan and the White Tower to work together, or Rand causing the earth to explode without channeling (by using Mat's Dragons), or Rand riding a steel monster without horses or the Power to push it (the steam engine in Cairhien).  You look at what past books have brought up that would have "impossible" future implications that you reasonably expect Rand to rely on.

 

In short, there may be a lot of information to use to determine what types of things Rand may yet do that Aes Sedai would think "impossible." Or, you can look at what he HAS done since that time and ask if that may have been on the list.

 

I don't understand why some people want to come on this thread and call the discussion pointless, when these same people will happily speculate about upcoming books based on what clues they've garnered through a careful read, or what plot arcs they feel need a certain resolution.  That's all that's going on here, and the OP asking people WHO WANT TO PARTICIPATE to make lists and give reasons.

 

Here's what I think

1) Cleansing Saidin.  No Aes Sedai would have believed it and it happened.

2) Uniting the Black and White Towers as equals.  I think the books are moving towards this, Elaida's foretelling talks about sisters walking about the Black Tower freely, and Aes Sedai could reasonably find the notion of Male Channelers working with them "impossible."

3) Bring in the Seanchan as allies, not enemies.  Could any Aes Sedai possibly conceive of fighting ALONGSIDE a people who leash channelers? Rand's overtures to Tuon, the approach of the Seanchan to the White Tower make me think this.

 

I'll continue this list later, but those are the three off the top of my head.

[Shard]

Boy has Nicola conned her way into fame or what? Good Job noobie!

[Majsju]

It seems clear that Nicola did predict the Dragon Reborn will do nine things.  It also seems clear that the other Aes Sedai determined these things are impossible, therefore Nicola is not havig a real foretelling but she is trying to make it up.

 

No, this is not "clear", rather the contrary.

 

Aes Sedai can't lie, so they say "Nine impossible things" the qualitive assessment, impossible, can be a matter of opinion.  The quantitative fact that she said nine different things the DR would not seem to be up for debate.  The fact that it is impossible may be something to do with custom and habit as much as physics.  They could see the notion of an Amyrlin answering to the Dragon Reborn as "impossible" because the Amyrlin is, to them, THE ruler of the world.

 

Using a figure of speech is not lying. And the "quanttive fact" is very much up for debate. What is clear is that Nicola have Foretold (or at least claims to) that Rand will do a number of things that to the Aes Sedai knowledge seems, if not impossible at least extremely unlikely. The exact number of thins is unknown, though we can be fairly certain it is more than just a few, as it apparently have caused Aes Sedai to question the truthfulness about Nicolas claims.

 

 

[seasnake]

What is clear is that Nicola have Foretold (or at least claims to) that Rand will do a number of things that to the Aes Sedai knowledge seems, if not impossible at least extremely unlikely. The exact number of thins is unknown, though we can be fairly certain it is more than just a few, as it apparently have caused Aes Sedai to question the truthfulness about Nicolas claims.

 

So we agree Nicola has made predictions about the Dragon Reborn, other Aes Sedai heard it, and they are "impossible" in the opinion of the Aes Sedai?  The debate is the number of "impossible" things Nicola predicted? That is what is at stake here?  If not, correct me, that's what I gleaned from this post.

 

Assuming you are right and nine is not the correct number, what does it gain anyone to nitpick the number of things Nicola predicted?  I keep stressing it because I want to be clear that this the only place where we seem to differ based on what I read.  And I don't get why anyone would care enough to make a fuss.  I mean think about it ...

 

"Hey guys, let's discuss the nine things Nicola predicted in Salidar-"

"-You don't know for certain the number of things Nicola predicted.  The number nine could have been a mistake or figure or speech!"

(pause) "Um, okay, well the Aes Sedai who the story says heard these things put the number at nine-"

"And YET, the book never explicitly has her say 'There were nine separate predictions made and I recorded each one to double check the total.' Therefore, you don't know if she REALLY meant there were nine predictions, or if she was mistaken."

 

So what?  Worse case scenario, there were 8 or 10 things predicted and the posters happily discussed nine instead of the correct number.  But step back and be honest, isn't a more likely, simple solution that nine just means nine, it's not a figure of speech or a mistake.  Especially when you consider that most figures of speech in the Wheel of Time series are deliberately obvious because the author doesn't want to cause confusion? 

 

I mean, if Uno said "42 soldiers died today" would we sit here and debate if Uno meant 42 or was mistaken when he said 42?  (Maybe we would, this is Dragonmount.com, after all).