Boundries Who gets What. (Rand Mat And Perrin)

[Lord Nik]

Will The continent of Randland be in Pretty much three chunks of Mat's territory, Perrins and Rand's?

 

Excluding Borderlands and Andor I guess.

 

Does anyone have a Colour Map that shows what belongs to who? I did a rough one that I was going to show you but I cant figure out how to paste the pic on here...

 

(pretty much West was Mats, Centery middley was Perrins and south east was Rands?)

 

Make sense? And andor goes to elayne... Unfortunately...

[Perrin 187]

I don't think Mat will get anything more than what the Seacnhan already have since he will become there ruler. I can't imagine the Seacnhan expanding much further since there continent is in chaos, after the death of the entire Royal family with the exception of Tuon. He'll likely spend most of Post-TG using his military skill getiing the place under control.

 

Perrin will Have Saldea, TR, Ghealden and likely annex all the uncontested lands inbetween and being a builder likely establish a huge roadnetwork. I don't see him fighting Mat because of Seacnhan expansion nor would Mat do such a thing. I have a feeling there won't be much peace for him either. So I say possible conflict Arad Doman,(I believe they are Saldea's economic rival) and right now with the Seacnhans advancing they are in Chaos and the only one keeping some form of order is Rodel Itlurade and I don't think he'll live long either. So I think Arad Doman will be like Murandy chaotic, monarch has little control,(like he has now, the country is run by the council of Merchants) and would hold a grudge agianst Perrin. Amadican and Altrain guerillas would likely fight Seacnhan occupation and like now, would spill into present Ghealden.

 

These are just guesess of course for both Mat and Perrin. I think the'll world will be far different than I or Lord Nik would think.

 

And I think Rand will die, its his destiny so his coalition will fraction. And I think alot of people who we think will live will die. Lan, Eggy, Elyas, Tallnover, Gaul, Lamwgin, Morgase, Berlain, Thom, Faile...etc if anyone of them die that changes the ball game to coin a phrase.

[adverge]

 

I never understood why Elayne insists that Andor is not conquered. It was quite obviously conquered by that Forsaken dude, then Rand drove him out with an army.  And then he held the city with an army. That's pretty much the definition of 'being conquered' right there.

 

I think Rand will have control of all of Randland.  Perrin's a horrible leader and will probably be a minor noble under Rand, not really a ruler in his own right.  Mat will go with Tuon back to Seanchan.

 

 

[Eleint]

I never understood why Elayne insists that Andor is not conquered. It was quite obviously conquered by that Forsaken dude, then Rand drove him out with an army.  And then he held the city with an army. That's pretty much the definition of 'being conquered' right there.

 

Pride.  It's pretty simple, and the people of Randland, male and female are very good at ignoring what they don't want to accept.

 

I think Rand will have control of all of Randland.  Perrin's a horrible leader and will probably be a minor noble under Rand, not really a ruler in his own right.  Mat will go with Tuon back to Seanchan.

 

This, I disagree with.  How is Perrin a horrible ruler?  He isn't good at the minor details, but he has Faile for that.  He's a -great- ruler when things get tough.

[Lord Nik]

Well Seanchan almost has the entire west coast. And Mat is co-ruler of seanchan now. So he gets that! And I think Perrin is going to get a thick strip of land from murandy straight up to saldea. With tidbits here and there on the way up. (2 rivers ect.)

 

I hope Elayne Dies.........

 

is that cruel?

[Kaznen]

Post-TG will likely be a period of choas and turmoil ending with new countries and rulers.  Like what happened after the Trollac Wars and Hawkwing's empire.

 

And they will look minor compared to TG.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Post-TG will likely be a period of choas and turmoil ending with new countries and rulers.  Like what happened after the Trollac Wars and Hawkwing's empire.

 

Why?  The Trollocs will be well and truly broken this time, the nations will actually be working together to destroy them.  Things in Randland will be settled enough that Mat and Tuon can go back to Seanchan to deal with the chaos there.

 

And they will look minor compared to TG.

 

Tarmon Gai'don is not the Trolloc Wars/War of the Hundred Years done all over again.  The stakes are higher (the Dark One himself could break free, not a possibility in those others) but the duration is much shorter.

[Perrin 187]

Why do so many people think Rand will live? I think he is just toast.

[Luckers]

It's stated in prophecy that he will. The how is under debate, but that he will is certain.

[Hallow]

It's stated in prophecy that he will. The how is under debate, but that he will is certain.

 

When is it eactly? His blood on the rocks? How does that state for certain that he dies at Tarmon gai'don?

[RobertAlexWillis]

When is it eactly? His blood on the rocks? How does that state for certain that he dies at Tarmon gai'don?

 

First of all, I'm pretty sure that Luckers was saying that prophecy stated that Rand would live.

 

But the distinction is ultimately moot, because one Foretelling covers both death and life.

 

Nicola's Foretelling that "he who is dead yet lives".  That refers to Rand.  The grammar is unclear, probably because it is describing some type of paradox (either between Rand's body and Rand's soul, or a time based paradox).  But given that Foretelling, and the Aelfinn's atatement that "To live you must die," it seems clear that, in one way or another, Rand will do both.  In what order, and in what specific way, is the source of much debate.

[Hallow]

When is it eactly? His blood on the rocks? How does that state for certain that he dies at Tarmon gai'don?

 

First of all, I'm pretty sure that Luckers was saying that prophecy stated that Rand would live.

 

But the distinction is ultimately moot, because one Foretelling covers both death and life.

 

Nicola's Foretelling that "he who is dead yet lives".  That refers to Rand.  The grammar is unclear, probably because it is describing some type of paradox (either between Rand's body and Rand's soul, or a time based paradox).  But given that Foretelling, and the Aelfinn's atatement that "To live you must die," it seems clear that, in one way or another, Rand will do both.  In what order, and in what specific way, is the source of much debate.

 

Ah righty, I see, I apologize, must've read it wrong :)

[mb]

Saldaea will be Perrin's.  I doubt he would keep anything else.

He promised the Seanchan that he would not reconquer Manetheren; and Alliandre is the only ruler that has swore fealty to him.

 

Mat will have the lands that the Seanchan has conquered (also perhaps will conquer); these include Seanchan, Tarabon, Altara, Amadicia.  Perhaps they will have Arad Doman.

 

Rand technically has just Illian & Aiel Waste.  A marriage with Elayne would give him Andor.  Two Rivers I imagine would become restored to Andor; the region technically has not seceded from Andor.  And Rand has declared Elayne for Cairhien's throne.

 

All other countries would have their own leaders.

 

[Charlz Guybon]

Well Seanchan almost has the entire west coast. And Mat is co-ruler of seanchan now. So he gets that! And I think Perrin is going to get a thick strip of land from murandy straight up to saldea. With tidbits here and there on the way up. (2 rivers ect.)

 

I hope Elayne Dies.........

 

is that cruel?

You are now my sworn enemy.  >:(

[RobertAlexWillis]

Saldaea will be Perrin's.  I doubt he would keep anything else.

He promised the Seanchan that he would not reconquer Manetheren; and Alliandre is the only ruler that has swore fealty to him.

 

Perrin did not promise "he would not reconquer Manetheren".  He promised not to raise the banner of Manetheren.  Creating a new country that includes the Two Rivers and Ghealdan along with Saldaea and the uninhabited land that used to be Aridhol has nothing to do with Manetheren.

 

Perrin hoodwinked the Seanchan with that promise.  He gave up absolutely nothing.

 

Mat will have the lands that the Seanchan has conquered (also perhaps will conquer); these include Seanchan, Tarabon, Altara, Amadicia.  Perhaps they will have Arad Doman.

 

Mat won't "have" anything.  His wife will be their Empress.  He'll be in Seanchan commanding armies.

 

Rand technically has just Illian & Aiel Waste.  A marriage with Elayne would give him Andor.  Two Rivers I imagine would become restored to Andor; the region technically has not succeeded from Andor.  And Rand has declared Elayne for Cairhien's throne.

 

Rand technically has only Illian.  A chief, even the Car'a'carn, is not a wetlander king.  The Aiel will follow him in battle to Tarmon Gai'don.

 

A marriage to Elayne wouldn't give Rand one single foot of Andor.  Andor has Queens.

 

Elayne will take Cairhien's throne on her own.

 

And Rand won't have anything after Tarmon Gai'don.  Whether he is actually dead permanently or not, he will be believed dead by most.  This is probably the reason that Jordan had Mattin and Egwene get together in the Tower.  She'll probably help him reclaim Illian.

 

All other countries would have their own leaders.

 

Arad Doman probably doesn't have any leader right now.  It would ripe for absorption or being divided up, along with Almoth Plain, by the Seanchan and Perrin-land.

 

Tear will indeed have Darlin, and will probably expand north.

 

Shienar is likely to be in ruins.  Perhaps Kandor and Arafel too.  I could see a new alliance forming in the aftermath of Tarmon Gai'don in which the remnants of the Borderlands combine resources and allegiance with whatever group/leader is still alive.

 

Which leaves Murandy.  North gets nibbled by Andor, south gets co-opted by Illian.

 

The nations have been shrinking for millenia, because populations have been shrinking, even in times of relative peace, probably due to the Dark One's touch, even his light touch, on the world.  After Tarmon Gai'don, there is likely to be a population explosion in Randland, followed by rapid expansion into the areas which are now empty.  New nations are likely to appear in the Black Hills/Caralain Grass, and what used to be Hardan.  Egwene will also likely expand the city-state of Tar Valon into the nation of Great Aravalon.

[Charlz Guybon]

Ituralde will probably become King of Arad Doman.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Ituralde will probably become King of Arad Doman.

 

Hmmm ...

 

I'm not sure why, but I don't think Rodel Ituralde will survive Tarmon Gai'don ... and I really don't think he wants anything to do with being King.

 

That is definitely my most speculative assessment here though ... purely my opinion.

[Dark Justice]

Ituralde will probably become King of Arad Doman.

 

Cant see it being probable. Possible, yes, but not probable.

[Lord Nik]

Well Seanchan almost has the entire west coast. And Mat is co-ruler of seanchan now. So he gets that! And I think Perrin is going to get a thick strip of land from murandy straight up to saldea. With tidbits here and there on the way up. (2 rivers ect.)

 

I hope Elayne Dies.........

 

is that cruel?

You are now my sworn enemy.  >:(

 

Hmm been a while since Ive been someones sworn enemy! Is it for my affections towards Elayne perchance?

 

Rand technically has just Illian & Aiel Waste.  A marriage with Elayne would give him Andor.  Two Rivers I imagine would become restored to Andor; the region technically has not succeeded from Andor.  And Rand has declared Elayne for Cairhien's throne.

 

I think everyone is being terribly unfair to what Rand owns and what he doesnt.

 

Lets go over what he has conquered!

 

Tear....

Then all the Aeil are following him (has to count for something) So I will say something in the waste just for the hell of it...

Cairhien...

Andor...

Illian...

 

He pretty much is in charge of all those places or has giving the nation to the current people holding it...

 

What will happen with the Black Tower? Will Rand finally step in a take charge of that place?

 

And I think politically and literally Rand is the most powerful person in Randland...

 

Oh and He is friends with everyone who pretty much owns everything else

[RobertAlexWillis]

I think everyone is being terribly unfair to what Rand owns and what he doesnt.

 

Lets go over what he has conquered!

 

Tear....

Then all the Aeil are following him (has to count for something) So I will say something in the waste just for the hell of it...

Cairhien...

Andor...

Illian...

 

He pretty much is in charge of all those places or has giving the nation to the current people holding it...

 

Its not a contest, Nik.

 

Rand is indeed currently the ruler over a considerable portion of land and people.  But that will not last beyond Tarmon Gai'don, nor do I think he would want it to.  Saying that he won't be ruler of much of anything after Tarmon Gai'don isn't an insult.  His goal is not world domination.

 

What will happen with the Black Tower? Will Rand finally step in a take charge of that place?

 

Probably never.  My guess is that will be Logain, and that Logain will, like Dobraine, Gregorin, Darlin, the Aiel chiefs, and whoever Rand puts in charge in Arad Doman, serve as Rand's steward/representative until Tarmon Gai'don is done.

 

After which he will be remembered as the first great M'hael.

[Charlz Guybon]

Ituralde will probably become King of Arad Doman.

 

Cant see it being probable. Possible, yes, but not probable.

Rand is definitely going to make him Steward in charge of Arad Doman. If he survives the last battle he will be King.

[Owners.Inc]

What will happen with the Black Tower? Will Rand finally step in a take charge of that place?

 

Probably never.  My guess is that will be Logain, and that Logain will, like Dobraine, Gregorin, Darlin, the Aiel chiefs, and whoever Rand puts in charge in Arad Doman, serve as Rand's steward/representative until Tarmon Gai'don is done.

 

After which he will be remembered as the first great M'hael.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that. Whether or not Taim turns out to be a Darkfriend, he deserves to be remembered by the future AM.

 

Way I see it, Mat'll become Emperor (just for the irony of it), Perrin will become king of a new form of Mantheren. And Rand will spend the rest of his life hanging around in the Aiel Waste/Royal Palace of Andor/Barleon. Not a bad way to spend the rest of your life, all things considered.

[Thorum]

Which leaves Murandy.  North gets nibbled by Andor, south gets co-opted by Illian.

 

Don't forget they're building up a potentially VERY strong nation there. I don't think they will just "disappear". It's not because we haven't read much of them, that they are a weak, and unworthy nation. There has to be a reason nobody tried to conquer them before. AND no civil war.

[Owners.Inc]

Which leaves Murandy.  North gets nibbled by Andor, south gets co-opted by Illian.

 

Don't forget they're building up a potentially VERY strong nation there. I don't think they will just "disappear". It's not because we haven't read much of them, that they are a weak, and unworthy nation. There has to be a reason nobody tried to conquer them before. AND no civil war.

 

Are you talking about Illian or Murandy? Doesn't Murandy have a civil war of its own, which Talmanes or someone from the Band ended diffusing by acting as mercenaries?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Don't forget they're building up a potentially VERY strong nation there.

 

Um ... they are?

 

If you're talking about the shenanigans that Roedran roped the Band into helping with, that isn't going to work out so well.  I mean, Roedran is doing the best he can, but Murandy has no national identity ... Andor has already nipped its northern border, for all intents and purposes.  It will stuck between three truly unified powerful entities (Illian, Andor, and Seanchan).  I don't see them surviving.

 

Actually, another possibility has crossed my mind though ...

 

The White Tower is probably going to take over land ... I wonder if the Black Tower will do that same?  Logain used to have lands in Murandy ...