Is Rand turning blind?

[Deel]

I have a question here -

I'm probably wrong, but I was under the impression that a channeller needed to see in order to form the weaves. So that means a blind person will effectively not be able to channel.

I read in LoC that Tarna's block was that she was unable to channel unless she'd closed her eyes which means she cannot channel.

So in Rand's case, if he becomes blind, he won't be able to channel.

 

Yea, I think I read that somewhere too.  But, how do they make a "light ball" in a dark room or how did Rand bust out of the box without channeling in the dark?

[trakand_01]

Dont remember why she didnt healed it...maby it was that she didn´t know what to heal?

 

Yes, she didn't know enough about what was wrong, and didn't want to mess with it until she did.

 

Plus he lied to her on purpose. He said to himself that it was like looking through water - murky and blurred, but when she said "How many fingers am I holding up?" he said "Two. My eyes are fine."

 

I dont want Rand to go blind :( But I think he will. Poor fella, all this for being born who you are.

[RobertAlexWillis]

However, just wanted to correct you and point out that Rand, Logain, everyone, were all dismounted at the time the fireball struck.

 

Having just reread it, I noticed that you are completely and totally correct.  Thanks.  Just goes to show I should check the books more often.  :)

 

In truth, this simply underscores the strength of the detonation, since it is not a possibility, as Kaz suggests, that "it could've also startled the horse, causing it to rear and throw Rand off."  The concussion blew Rand off his feet, and incinerated his hand.  To quote:

 

The world seemed to explode in fire.

 

His cheek was pressed against the damp ground, he realized.

 

No diving to the side.  He couldn't dodge, because Min was behind him.  He got blown to the ground.  Plenty of concussive force for eye trauma.

 

You're just wrong Kaz.  It happens.

 

And yes if a mircowave blew up that could send a concussive blast, but I was saying the mircowave blew up, just what was in it.

 

And I was treating your suggestion as silly, because it is.  Microwave ovens cause internally generated heat by vibrating the molecules inside an object.  A fireball is external heat.  It would burn the hand long before it caused the blood to expand to the point of exploding.  So, your comparison was silly from the start.  Instead of explaining why, I just made a joke.  I suppose I should have been clearer.

 

This is what I always thought.  Similar to Matt shades in TEotW after Rand creates the lightning strike to break them out of the locked storeroom.

 

It is true that bandages around the eyes were and in fact still are used to block light for temporary problems.  But if that is all it is, then it is unlikely that the Fisher icon would record that temporary state.  Blindfolds were also widely used by those who were permanently blind .... much like sunglasses often are today.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

It is true that bandages around the eyes were and in fact still are used to block light for temporary problems.  But if that is all it is, then it is unlikely that the Fisher icon would record that temporary state.  Blindfolds were also widely used by those who were permanently blind .... much like sunglasses often are today.

 

Understand, and have to agree - he could go blind.  But if he goes blind, he can't channel (or at least, channel effectively).  This would / will provide an interesting spin to events between now & TG.  Of course, I assume this dilemma, in addition to all of his other ailments (Heron Mark scars, missing hand, unhealing wounds) may provide the basis for the "To live, you must die" or for Luckers' bodyswap theory? 

 

I dunno!  Either way, I'd hate to see the poor guy go blind.  Worse yet, I can't come to terms with Rand taking another form.  I've come to appreciate the whole development of his character, his resemblance to Tigraine and the Aiel.  I suppose Min, Elayne and Aviendha would probably miss his fantastic calves too!

[Kaznen]

However, just wanted to correct you and point out that Rand, Logain, everyone, were all dismounted at the time the fireball struck.

 

Having just reread it, I noticed that you are completely and totally correct.  Thanks.  Just goes to show I should check the books more often.   :)

 

In truth, this simply underscores the strength of the detonation, since it is not a possibility, as Kaz suggests, that "it could've also startled the horse, causing it to rear and throw Rand off."  The concussion blew Rand off his feet, and incinerated his hand.  To quote:

 

The world seemed to explode in fire.

 

His cheek was pressed against the damp ground, he realized.

 

No diving to the side.  He couldn't dodge, because Min was behind him.  He got blown to the ground.  Plenty of concussive force for eye trauma.

 

You're just wrong Kaz.  It happens.

 

And yes if a mircowave blew up that could send a concussive blast, but I was saying the mircowave blew up, just what was in it.

 

And I was treating your suggestion as silly, because it is.  Microwave ovens cause internally generated heat by vibrating the molecules inside an object.  A fireball is external heat.  It would burn the hand long before it caused the blood to expand to the point of exploding.  So, your comparison was silly from the start.  Instead of explaining why, I just made a joke.  I suppose I should have been clearer.

 

This is what I always thought.  Similar to Matt shades in TEotW after Rand creates the lightning strike to break them out of the locked storeroom.

 

It is true that bandages around the eyes were and in fact still are used to block light for temporary problems.  But if that is all it is, then it is unlikely that the Fisher icon would record that temporary state.  Blindfolds were also widely used by those who were permanently blind .... much like sunglasses often are today.

I could push you to the ground if you're on your feet and not even bruise you.  Your post proves nothing.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I could push you to the ground if you're on your feet and not even bruise you.  Your post proves nothing.

 

Did you actually read the book?  He didn't get "pushed to the ground".  The "world seemed to explode in fire".  He was dazed and confused, he lost track of where he was.  And his HAND WAS INCINERATED.

 

Good grief, Kaz, it's like you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALALA NOT GOING BLIND LALALALA".

 

And you couldn't push me to the ground, Kaz.  Just for the record.  ;D

[Kaznen]

 

Did you actually read the book?  He didn't get "pushed to the ground".  The "world seemed to explode in fire".  He was dazed and confused, he lost track of where he was.  And his HAND WAS INCINERATED.

 

Good grief, Kaz, it's like you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALALA NOT GOING BLIND LALALALA".

 

And you couldn't push me to the ground, Kaz.  Just for the record.   ;D

That was just pointing out how easy it is to take someone off their feet, especially if they are in an unbalanced position like Rand was.

 

Truth of the situation is the bright light and pain of the hand caused him to be "dazed and confused" as you said, and it is likely his knees would have buckled, and that would put you on your @$$.  Then he spent the next few blurry seconds writing on the ground in pain, he did lose his hand after all. 

[Builder]

Ok, I get it! Rand might become blind. I too wouldn't want to see Rand turning blind and I think that's why Kaznen is acting like he does. I would too. I love Rand and it would be horrible if Rand was blind. Even though Neo was blind he could still see in the Matrix.

[RobertAlexWillis]

That was just pointing out how easy it is to take someone off their feet, especially if they are in an unbalanced position like Rand was.

 

And I was just pointing out what actually happened.

 

Truth of the situation is the bright light and pain of the hand caused him to be "dazed and confused" as you said, and it is likely his knees would have buckled, and that would put you on your @$$.  Then he spent the next few blurry seconds writing on the ground in pain, he did lose his hand after all.

 

He didn't wobble and buckle from a bright flash of light.  A bright flash of light doesn't incinerate your hand.

 

Rand went straight from holding up his hand to lying on his face in the mud.  Minus a hand.  That is not just a bright flash, Kaz.  I'm sorry, you are Just.  Plain.  Wrong.

 

Read the book.

[Kaznen]

I did read the book, a few times, but you are pointing to how physics should behave when applied to magick.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I did read the book, a few times, but you are pointing to how physics should behave when applied to magick.

 

-sigh-

 

OK Kaznen.

[Kaznen]

Well, do you know how to produce a ball of pure fire using only thought, then how would that ball of pure fire act as apposed to a ball of fire running on fuel?

 

Well? 

[RobertAlexWillis]

What does the method of production have to do with the EFFECTS of the fireball?  The effects which WE ACTUALLY SAW IN THE BOOKS.  The symptoms THAT WE ACTUALLY SAW IN RAND'S POV!

 

Also, if you're not worried about physics, why did you bring up microwave ovens earlier?

 

Also, if we can make up extra magical effects, then how do you know that it wasn't a "delayed blast blindness" fireball?

 

You're changing your argument with just about every post, because YOU ARE WRONG.  And I'm tired of dealing with your refusal to consider rationality.

 

Hence.

 

-sigh-

 

OK Kaznen.

[Kaznen]

Now your just being silly.

 

And if you keep with those condescending -sigh-s I'll start in with variations of the name "Robert."

[RobertAlexWillis]

Really.  I'm the one being silly.

 

Your last argument boils down to: "Nuh-uh! Its a MAGICK fireball.  It would never hurt sweet Rand's little eyes.  It just gently nudged his face into the mud, completely obliterated his hand, and rendered him semi-conscious, but it definitely did not put any pressure on his eyes, one of the most sensitive and easily damaged parts of the body."

 

But no.  I'm the one being silly.

 

[move]-SIGH-[/move]

[Kaznen]

Really.  I'm the one being silly.

 

Your last argument boils down to: "Nuh-uh! Its a MAGICK fireball.  It would never hurt sweet Rand's little eyes.  It just gently nudged his face into the mud, completely obliterated his hand, and rendered him semi-conscious, but it definitely did not put any pressure on his eyes, one of the most sensitive and easily damaged parts of the body."

 

But no.  I'm the one being silly.

 

[move]-SIGH-[/move]

Well it was, Bob-o, and his eyes were about three feet from his hand, being how he stretched it out to protect Min, Robby.

[Dark Justice]

Kaznen. Are what you are trying to say, really, that Rand has no problems with his eyes, and is not light sensitive? That a fireball could not damage your eyes? Cause Im pretty sure it can. Even if it is a magic fireball...

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well it was, Bob-o, and his eyes were about three feet from his hand, being how he stretched it out to protect Min, Robby.

 

OMG, BIG SCAWY KAZZY WAZZY!  Three whole feet?  Why, no explosion could evah send out a three foot shockwave!  Thank you evah so much for showing me the solution.

 

I wonder how big my sighs can get before someone censors me?   ;D

 

[move]-SIGH-[/move]

[water_seeker]

Really.  I'm the one being silly.

You're both being silly.

 

That said.  RAW is right and Kaz is wrong.

 

A few years back my grandpa was showing me how to weld.  He started b4 I could cover my eyes with the protective lens and it took me about a week to get my full sight back.  That was just a very bright light from about 3 feet away and for a fraction of a second--not a fireball, magic or otherwise.

 

Eyes are sensitive (it bothers me that two-face in the Dark Knight has a horribly burned face, but his eye on that side is pristine).  Light hurts them...even a little light.  If you don't believe me, go to sleep in a dark room, when you wake up keep your eyes wide open and go to the brightest room in your house.

 

A fireball that is intense enough to COMPLETELY remove a hand, bone and all, is going to have enough heat and light to it to do damage to that persons eyes...unless they have their head turned...but it happened so fast Rand had no chance to react to it.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It isn't the heat and light that may have done serious damage to Rand's eyes.  It is the pressure.

 

A fireball that is explosive enough to knock a big, strong man to the ground when he is bracing for impact, as well as to destroy his hand, bone and all, would create intense physical pressure on the liquid filled orbs of Rand's eyes.

 

It was not just the heat that obliterated Rand's hand.  If the heat alone had been intense enough, on its own, to completely obliterate his bones, then it would have also burned the surface of his entire body.  It was the combination of heat and explosive force that incinerated his hand.  And knocked him face first into the mud.  And very well may have detached his retina, or induced uevitis or cataracts, all of which match his symptoms, and can lead to total blindness.

 

Which is why, in Rand's PoV, Jordan described it as "the world exploding in fire".

 

Heat, but more importantly in the long run, pressure.

 

And yes, water_seeker, I am being silly now in my responses to Kaznen.  It's all his responses deserve.  Treating them seriously, at this point, would be a disservice to all well thought out responses.

 

He accused me of being silly.  So, I'm going to rub his nose in silly for a while.  Please stay out of the way.

[Mik]

Sorry Kaz, but RAW's side of the story makes more sense to me.

All sillyness aside, I'd like to put in my two cen... eyes worth.  ;)

(and well.. it could very well be more sillyness!)

 

The Fisher on the sha'rah board is already blinded and wounded at his side at the start of the game.

Almost as soon as the Dragon Reborn raises the Dragon Banner to fullfill prophecy, he is wounded like the Fisher. (end of TGH)

Have you guys ever considered that the Dragon Reborn is blinded already? (it started at the end of the TEotW)

 

I like to think of the Dragon as being 'the Eye of the World' in the sense that he is the center of Creation, the Heart of the World (I think Tel Amon means "Worlds Heart" in the Old Tongue). Everything revolves around him.

I think Ishamael did manage to 'blind the Eye of the World' as he intended.

The Dragon has been Reborn, yes. But he is not the Dragon. He is Rand al'Thor. Not Lews Therin.

"The Sword that is not a Sword" I think was a methaphor for the Mind of the Dragon (how fitting it was kept safe at the Heart of the Stone that was made by the Power from pieces all over the world). And it has been blinded ever since when the Dragon Reborn remembered being Rand al'Thor instead of Lews Therin Telamon.

 

His lack of self-control has severely clouded (blinded if you will) his judgement.

He trusts noone but himself and shut out everyone (except Min).

He is still blind for the 'serpents in the bossom', the enemies surounding him and/or his companions.

 

Yes, Rand might turn out to be 'visually impaired' really bad at the end.

But truth be told, that might actually be a big help in the Last Battle.

I think Rands fight in the Last Battle will be a battle of wills.

(let's just say that "A Memory of Light" could be considered a fairly big hint in and by itself)

No muscle. No strenght in numbers. No One Power. No senses. Nope; Mind over Matter.

Tarmon Gai'dons most important battle will take place in TAR, where your Mind is the ultimate weapon.

"Thought is the Arrow of Time", after all.

 

Rand needs to trust again...he needs to feel again. Having bad eye-sight (or actually going blind) might force him to realise that.

The fact that Rand has always stomped down Lews Therins thoughts is a capital mistake, I think.

At the Last Battle, Rand will need to trust Lews Therin fully.

 

Physically, the Dragon Reborn might end up blinded, but in my opinion he has slowly been blinded mentally & spritually for the past 11 books.

 

Who knows, I made you guys 'see'... ;D

Cheerio,

Mik